Welcome, Guest

Author Topic: One or Two Cold Nights  (Read 4511 times)

Online The15thMember

  • Global Moderator
  • Galactic Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 4426
  • Gender: Female
  • Traveler of the Multiverse, Seeker of Knowledge
One or Two Cold Nights
« on: November 27, 2018, 01:30:56 pm »
Our nighttime temps are really fluctuating here right now, but high 20's is about as cold as it gets.  Tonight and tomorrow however it's going to be in the teens and low 20's overnight.  My hive setup right now is 2 mediums, a slatted rack, and a moisture quilt.  Do I need to provide them with some extra insulation for tonight and tomorrow?  Or since it's just really these 2 days, will they be alright? 
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline BeeMaster2

  • Administrator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 13494
  • Gender: Male
Re: One or Two Cold Nights
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2018, 02:01:48 pm »
That sounds like a good setup for your climate. Your bees will not freeze if you have most of those frames covered.
Jim
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

Online The15thMember

  • Global Moderator
  • Galactic Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 4426
  • Gender: Female
  • Traveler of the Multiverse, Seeker of Knowledge
Re: One or Two Cold Nights
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2018, 02:11:26 pm »
Thanks for the quick response, Jim.  I've been trying to get into the hive to check on the population and finalize my winterizing, but with Thanksgiving and the weather I've been unable to.  Last time I was in there the bottom box was full of bees.  On the warmer days I have seen activity in and out of the hive (some of them still carrying pollen, which I have no idea where they are getting), so I'm pretty sure the population is still fine.  There was quite a bit of activity up there one day last week, where I'm pretty sure there were bees orienting, so that seemed like a good sign to me as well.     
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline BeeMaster2

  • Administrator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 13494
  • Gender: Male
Re: One or Two Cold Nights
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2018, 02:16:15 pm »
With your temperatures the way they are, I would not open them now. They have the hive they way they want it and you can only do harm. On top of that if you kill the queen, they cannot replace her.
Jim
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

Offline iddee

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 10853
  • Gender: Male
Re: One or Two Cold Nights
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2018, 02:25:10 pm »
Lift the back of the hive one inch. If you can do it with 3 fingers, they need fed. If you can't lift it at all, they are fine. The setup is good for the weather if they have food.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Online The15thMember

  • Global Moderator
  • Galactic Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 4426
  • Gender: Female
  • Traveler of the Multiverse, Seeker of Knowledge
Re: One or Two Cold Nights
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2018, 02:45:46 pm »
With your temperatures the way they are, I would not open them now. They have the hive they way they want it and you can only do harm. On top of that if you kill the queen, they cannot replace her.
Jim
I certainly wouldn't open them on one of these super cold days, but I am waiting on a warm day to do so.  50's and sunny was my target temperature.  I left my beetle traps in and was hoping to remove them, and also to add a top entrance so the girls can enter and exit more easily in the cold.  Would you still advise against it if it's warmer out?   

Lift the back of the hive one inch. If you can do it with 3 fingers, they need fed. If you can't lift it at all, they are fine. The setup is good for the weather if they have food.
Thanks for the advice, iddee.  They had 10 frames of honey going into the winter, so I'm pretty sure they are fine for now, but that's a great tip to know when I need to check if they're hungry. 
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline Michael Bush

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 19832
  • Gender: Male
    • bushfarms.com
Re: One or Two Cold Nights
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2018, 03:37:51 pm »
We typically get two weeks of -10 F and often get two weeks of -20 F and occasionally get two weeks of -30 F... 20 F is nice weather...
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--James "Big Boy" Medlin

Offline Acebird

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 8110
  • Gender: Male
  • Just do it
Re: One or Two Cold Nights
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2018, 05:11:06 pm »
In a seriously cold climate breaking the propolise between boxes is a bad thing.  It can't be repaired.  In a warm climate that has cold spells it is not that bad but any intervention in the winter season is non productive.
Brian Cardinal
Just do it

Online The15thMember

  • Global Moderator
  • Galactic Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 4426
  • Gender: Female
  • Traveler of the Multiverse, Seeker of Knowledge
Re: One or Two Cold Nights
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2018, 06:43:39 pm »
We typically get two weeks of -10 F and often get two weeks of -20 F and occasionally get two weeks of -30 F... 20 F is nice weather...
It's weird how far north Nebraska is.  I tend to think of it as farther south than it is, but I guess you are at the same latitude as cold states like Pennsylvania and Indiana.   
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline BeeMaster2

  • Administrator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 13494
  • Gender: Male
Re: One or Two Cold Nights
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2018, 07:35:11 pm »
With your temperatures the way they are, I would not open them now. They have the hive they way they want it and you can only do harm. On top of that if you kill the queen, they cannot replace her.
Jim
I certainly wouldn't open them on one of these super cold days, but I am waiting on a warm day to do so.  50's and sunny was my target temperature.  I left my beetle traps in and was hoping to remove them, and also to add a top entrance so the girls can enter and exit more easily in the cold.  Would you still advise against it if it's warmer out?   

Lift the back of the hive one inch. If you can do it with 3 fingers, they need fed. If you can't lift it at all, they are fine. The setup is good for the weather if they have food.
Thanks for the advice, iddee.  They had 10 frames of honey going into the winter, so I'm pretty sure they are fine for now, but that's a great tip to know when I need to check if they're hungry. 
Member,
The only time that I go into the hives during winter is when I?m pretty sure the hive is dead. Then I take it apart and move the supers inside to protect them.
Jim
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

Offline Ben Framed

  • Global Moderator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 12410
  • Mississippi Zone 7
Re: One or Two Cold Nights
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2018, 10:28:26 pm »
Jim {Member,
The only time that I go into the hives during winter is when I?m pretty sure the hive is dead. Then I take it apart and move the supers inside to protect them.
Jim}

I realize that some parts of the world, even here in North America there are drastic differences in winter temperatures. Michael's home sounds pretty rough to me, and there is TheHoneyPump up in Canada which sounds like a harsh winter also. Look and Michael Palmers operation, goodness gracious! Here in North Mississippi we do have some, what we consider, cold spells with and occasional, O now and then and sometimes sub zero though rare. One of my uncles lives more south in Mississippi (Hattiesburg) Where when cold here, looks like picnic weather there! How do you guys and gals in these cold areas determine when a hive is dead without going through a lot of trouble?  I have looked into infrared imaging cameras. I do have a inferred thermometer that is very accurate and I have used in a cutout situation to locate the general area where the cluster of bees were in a wall, and may I add. It did the trick! Though only showing a few degrees warmer through the wall it was a big help. Wouldn't this also help you folks during winter to detect the heat of the hive?  No higher than outside temp. = dead hive?
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline BeeMaster2

  • Administrator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 13494
  • Gender: Male
Re: One or Two Cold Nights
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2018, 10:42:57 pm »
Phillip,
Our temperatures are up and down all winter long. This gives the bees a chance to have potty breaks and (regretfully) search for food (which usually just causes losses or robbing). I also will put my ear to the side of the hive and listen for life. When I do not see activity on one hive when the rest are active, I start watching it closer. I also routinely check the weight of the hives to see if they are running out of food.
Jim
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

Online The15thMember

  • Global Moderator
  • Galactic Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 4426
  • Gender: Female
  • Traveler of the Multiverse, Seeker of Knowledge
Re: One or Two Cold Nights
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2018, 01:42:33 am »
Jim {Member,
The only time that I go into the hives during winter is when I?m pretty sure the hive is dead. Then I take it apart and move the supers inside to protect them.
Jim}

I realize that some parts of the world, even here in North America there are drastic differences in winter temperatures. Michael's home sounds pretty rough to me, and there is TheHoneyPump up in Canada which sounds like a harsh winter also. Look and Michael Palmers operation, goodness gracious! Here in North Mississippi we do have some, what we consider, cold spells with and occasional, O now and then and sometimes sub zero though rare. One of my uncles lives more south in Mississippi (Hattiesburg) Where when cold here, looks like picnic weather there! How do you guys and gals in these cold areas determine when a hive is dead without going through a lot of trouble?  I have looked into infrared imaging cameras. I do have a inferred thermometer that is very accurate and I have used in a cutout situation to locate the general area where the cluster of bees were in a wall, and may I add. It did the trick! Though only showing a few degrees warmer through the wall it was a big help. Wouldn't this also help you folks during winter to detect the heat of the hive?  No higher than outside temp. = dead hive?

I was thinking about getting an infrared camera for Christmas, but the one I had been looking at went up in price, so I decided against it.  It was too much money for a nice-to-have sort of thing. 
 
Phillip,
Our temperatures are up and down all winter long. This gives the bees a chance to have potty breaks and (regretfully) search for food (which usually just causes losses or robbing). I also will put my ear to the side of the hive and listen for life. When I do not see activity on one hive when the rest are active, I start watching it closer. I also routinely check the weight of the hives to see if they are running out of food.
Jim
One thing I have started doing along the lines of what Jim said about listening is I use a stethoscope to listen into the hive.  I'd heard of other people doing that and I happen to have a stethoscope, so I've been listening to the hive every couple of days so I can get a gauge on what sounds normal so I'll know if something sounds different.  I've been trying to see if I can triangulate their position in the hive based on where the sound is the loudest, but so far I'm not that good at it.   
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline Acebird

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 8110
  • Gender: Male
  • Just do it
Re: One or Two Cold Nights
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2018, 07:31:00 am »
How do you guys and gals in these cold areas determine when a hive is dead without going through a lot of trouble?
Snow does not melt away from the entrance or produce vapor in the top vent.  Having more then one active hive will give you a reference.  If you put a butt thermometer in the vent you would see a big difference between the ambient temperature.
Brian Cardinal
Just do it

Offline Michael Bush

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 19832
  • Gender: Male
    • bushfarms.com
Re: One or Two Cold Nights
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2018, 10:03:57 am »
>It's weird how far north Nebraska is.  I tend to think of it as farther south than it is, but I guess you are at the same latitude as cold states like Pennsylvania and Indiana.   

But we get as cold as Vermont.  That arctic vortex coming down from Canada and the wind coming down off of the Rockies can get very cold.
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--James "Big Boy" Medlin

Offline Ben Framed

  • Global Moderator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 12410
  • Mississippi Zone 7
Re: One or Two Cold Nights
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2018, 11:07:24 am »
@ The15thMember
"One thing I have started doing along the lines of what Jim said about listening is I use a stethoscope to listen into the hive.  I'd heard of other people doing that and I happen to have a stethoscope, so I've been listening to the hive every couple of days so I can get a gauge on what sounds normal so I'll know if something sounds different.  I've been trying to see if I can triangulate their position in the hive based on where the sound is the loudest, but so far I'm not that good at it."

The15thMember I like your idea of using a stethoscope. This may be common knodlege to some but a new idea to me. Thank you for sharing the idea. Also, I agree about the price of infrared imaging devices, can get really pricey. Flir seems to make a good one that attaches to your phone. So does seek. I am thinking seek would pobanly do fine for what my needs would be, and it is reasonably priced. If you might be interested in the infrared thermal thermometer, they can be had for little cost. Believe it or not I found mine at Harbor Freight for $19.99. As I said earlier, very accurate.
Thanks Phillip Hall "Ben Framed"
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline seanconnery

  • New Bee
  • *
  • Posts: 47
    • Ihor Pona Architectural Photography
Re: One or Two Cold Nights
« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2018, 11:53:49 am »
I use my FLIR.[/attachment]

Offline Ben Framed

  • Global Moderator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 12410
  • Mississippi Zone 7
Re: One or Two Cold Nights
« Reply #17 on: November 28, 2018, 12:10:18 pm »
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline BeeMaster2

  • Administrator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 13494
  • Gender: Male
Re: One or Two Cold Nights
« Reply #18 on: November 28, 2018, 01:05:13 pm »
That is really nice. How much is the attachment?

Jim
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

Online The15thMember

  • Global Moderator
  • Galactic Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 4426
  • Gender: Female
  • Traveler of the Multiverse, Seeker of Knowledge
Re: One or Two Cold Nights
« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2018, 01:19:46 pm »
The Flir is the one I was looking at.  Over the summer it was $170 at Amazon, but they came out with an updated one just recently and it's gone up to $200.  Flir was the cheapest one I could find.  I've never heard of Seek, I'll have to look into that one maybe.

The15thMember I like your idea of using a stethoscope. This may be common knodlege to some but a new idea to me. Thank you for sharing the idea. Also, I agree about the price of infrared imaging devices, can get really pricey. Flir seems to make a good one that attaches to your phone. So does seek. I am thinking seek would pobanly do fine for what my needs would be, and it is reasonably priced. If you might be interested in the infrared thermal thermometer, they can be had for little cost. Believe it or not I found mine at Harbor Freight for $19.99. As I said earlier, very accurate.
Thanks Phillip Hall "Ben Framed"
I keep hearing people saying how they find such cheap stuff at Harbor Freight, I really need to look into them.  One of their stores is pretty close to me, I'll have to pop in there some time when I'm out that way and take a look around. 
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.