Marked queens

[Ben Framed]

Anyone ever marked a queen with a dot of paint and she moved and some paint got on her wings or wing?  Just wondering what would be expected in a case scenario such as this or maybe on the  abdomen?  I am sure that this happens. What are the results? Educate me please.
Thanks, Phillip Hall

[GSF]

My experience tells me it's no big deal. However, remember insects breathe through their exoskeleton. If you coat her a lot she may suffocate. That most likely wouldn't happen unless the ink spilled out.

[robirot]

In nearly all cases no problem. The Queen will geht cleaned by her bees. Only if you cover big parts of the head, i would be worried.
I allready had a couple queens marked bad the day they hatch, and still returned succesfull, only the paint in the back left on.

But now i use nearly only marking plates on my breed queens, way easier and fast er to apply.

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[Ben Framed]

Thanks GSF and robirot for the educational update and shared experience.
Sincerely,  Phillip Hall

[TheHoneyPump]

Anyone ever marked a queen with a dot of paint and she moved and some paint got on her wings or wing?  Just wondering what would be expected in a case scenario such as this or maybe on the  abdomen?  I am sure that this happens. What are the results? Educate me please.
Thanks, Phillip Hall

Yes, it happens.  I mark by ever so lightly holding her by the thorax between thumb and index finger.  Just barely enough pressure that she cannot turn out. The marker is a long tooth pick, end cut flat, dipped in thick paint, so there is a thin crescent of paint on the end of the stick.  I use acrylic craft paint from the dollar store. A light touch of the stick end on the bald spot of her thorax and it is done.  Let her walk around on the palm of hands for 30 seconds to a minute and then walk her back into the center frames of the hive.    Btw I only mark mated laying queens after she has been busy for 2 to 3 weeks.  She is too heavy to fly at that point.  Never mark virgins.

Not all marking are perfect, sometimes she is a squirmy one!  I mark about 40 per season.  Far from being an expert, but I do enough and observe through follow ups that I can comment:

My experience,
- if get a teeny bit on her abdomen, the bees do not like it, she should be ok but not as well taken care of, they will clean it off if they can, then she is fine and all back to normal.
- if get too much on her thorax, she makes six legged yoga contortions trying to wipe herself off.  Bees crawl on her back and nibble away.  You end up with an unmarked queen a few days later.  Need to remark.
- if get a light smear on her head/eyes, the bees clean it off easily.
- if get some on her wings, her days are numbered.  Dunk her and wash her off immediately or Prepare for a supercedure.  Wings seem to be the most delicate, most revered, feature that the bees pay attention to. They cannot clean paint off her wings without damaging them, and damaged wings is a damaged queen in bees eye.  If you are going to make a mess, it must not be on the wings, ever.  They may not replace her right away. Depends on stage of the season, weather, and resources in the colony.  Though they will do so as soon as those factors permit. 

In all cases, over do it or get a bad smear or blob on her and she?ll be superceded soon as they can make it happen.  They like pleasant smelling elegant beauty queens.  They do not like heavily painted latex coated drag queens.

[Ben Framed]

@ TheHoneyPump
Thank you for taking the time for the well thought out and detailed reply!! Very educational and much appreciated !!
Sincerely, Phillip Hall

[Michael Bush]

I smeared a queens wings who lived for at least a year or two afterwards.  The main thing is to not get it in her spiracles where she breathes. 

[Ben Framed]

I smeared a queens wings who lived for at least a year or two afterwards.  The main thing is to not get it in her spiracles where she breathes.

Thanks Mr Bush for responding along with the others.  I guess bees are sometimes hard to predict. I have watched a video where a famous bee man says that marking a queen can lead to trouble, meaning superseding even when marked in the proper place, without the smears.  I took that with a grain of salt being pros like yourself have been marking queens for years. But since we are talking about it, do you ever have trouble, on occasion, with hives superseding the queen because of marking?  I intend to do a few splits next year and, being new to beekeeping, I sometimes have trouble finding the queen. The marking would certainly come in handy for making a quick find at least until I get use to spotting her more readily.  Thanks again.
Sincerely,  Phillip Hall   

[beepro]

I already seen the accident made on the queen over the years by other beekeepers.  So rather than making the
paint smearing mistake again I now use pre-made paint dots.  This process will eliminate any
smearing with a perfect painted dot on her thorax.   I still have some queens to mark with these pre-made heart shaped red dots.

[Ben Framed]

I already seen the accident made on the queen over the years by other beekeepers.  So rather than making the
paint smearing mistake again I now use pre-made paint dots.  This process will eliminate any
smearing with a perfect painted dot on her thorax.   I still have some queens to mark with these pre-made heart shaped red dots.

Thanks beepro, do you use carbon dioxide in your process to keep the queens still as described by  Mr. Van?  I can see where this would be very helpful in a queen breeding program in order to keep up with the pedigree of the queens raised using numbered dots.  Especially if the AI process was being utilized to keep track of which drones, or should I say, drones from which colony are being bred also.  Thanks, Phillip Hall

[robirot]

Thanks beepro, do you use carbon dioxide in your process to keep the queens still as described by  Mr. Van?  I can see where this would be very helpful in a queen breeding program in order to keep up with the pedigree of the queens raised using numbered dots.  Especially if the AI process was being utilized to keep track of which drones, or should I say, drones from which colony are being bred also.  Thanks, Phillip Hall

No need to use CO2, just hold her with two fingers and put the dot on.
You essentially need some sort of individual marking, if you are breeding. Else you can't even be sure that you got your queen back from the mating station, or that your breeding queen didn't got superseeded. For that numbered dots are perfect.

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[Michael Bush]

>do you ever have trouble, on occasion, with hives superseding the queen because of marking?

I have not seen supersedures due to marking.

[Ben Framed]

>do you ever have trouble, on occasion, with hives superseding the queen because of marking?

I have not seen supersedures due to marking.

Thank you Mr. Bush.

[Michael Bush]

My guess is that the smell from different kinds of paint may create different reactions and letting it dry enough may make a big difference.  I prefer enamel because it lasts better than acrylic.  Neither acrylic (POSCA) nor enamel (testors) has been a problem for me.  But the acrylic often gets removed by the bees.

[Ben Framed]

My guess is that the smell from different kinds of paint may create different reactions and letting it dry enough may make a big difference.  I prefer enamel because it lasts better than acrylic.  Neither acrylic (POSCA) nor enamel (testors) has been a problem for me.  But the acrylic often gets removed by the bees.

Thanks Mr Bush for sharing your experience!  Phillip Hall

[beepro]

No, Mr. Ben.   Co2 is not necessary with my process.  I simply made a queen marking tube out of a
medicine bottle with extra large screen enough so that the queen cannot go through the holes.  And at the
same time she is trap inside the metal screen for me to glue on the pre-painted dot.   

My latest finding is to mix in TB-3 glue and the testor paint.  I only have 10 minutes before the paint start to cure.  I usually leave it
to cure overnight before using it on the queen. After the glue is hardened the thinly painted dot is still flexible enough to be glue on the queen's thorax.   This will not leave any gap on.   Quite an interesting discovery I think!

[Ben Framed]

No, Mr. Ben.   Co2 is not necessary with my process.  I simply made a queen marking tube out of a
medicine bottle with extra large screen enough so that the queen cannot go through the holes.  And at the
same time she is trap inside the metal screen for me to glue on the pre-painted dot.   

My latest finding is to mix in TB-3 glue and the testor paint.  I only have 10 minutes before the paint start to cure.  I usually leave it
to cure overnight before using it on the queen. After the glue is hardened the thinly painted dot is still flexible enough to be glue on the queen's thorax.   This will not leave any gap on.   Quite an interesting discovery I think!

Yes, very interesting! Thank you for sharing your new process!  Does this seem to be a permeant fix? Keep up the good work!!
Sincerely, Phillip Hall "Ben Framed"

[JVarner]

My experience: 6 months ago I slipped with my paint pen and unceremoniously slopped paint all over a queens back & head...most of the paint has come off since then and she's still laying great.