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Author Topic: Spring time plan  (Read 1084 times)

Offline omnimirage

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Spring time plan
« on: July 01, 2018, 09:40:55 pm »
Spring is approaching in Australia. In previous years, a number of my hives have swarmed once the warmer weather of Spring arrived. From what I've gathered, this is a normal biological response from the bees. that can be to some extent, avoided if the bees have enough room to expand within their hives. I've also gathered that, once the bees have decided that they want to swarm, it's quite difficult to encourage them to change the mind, that the only effective means in doing so is to split the hive.

I've learned that my hives are predominately of the Apis mellifera mellifera subspecies, and I'd like some Apis mellifera ligustica, as they seem to be a better subspecies for my region. Seems like the main advantages of Apis mellifera mellifera is that they're better adapted to snowing, wintering conditions; it doesn't snow where I am nor does it become particularly cold. Apis mellifera ligustica seems like they're simply more able to create larger yields of honey.

My spring time plan was to purchase a number of Ligurian queens, and then to create splits from all of my large hives just before the warm Spring weather hit, to mitigate the chances of them swarming. However, I've contacted a number of queen bee breeders who sell Ligurians across the country, and not a single one of them is able to provide me with a queen for the first month of Spring. Apparently, it's not a practice in this country to buy queens, to create splits with to mitigate spring time swarming.

I'm now unsure about what to do come Spring time. The warm weather could arrive in seven weeks time. For various reasons I never did a honey extraction in Autumn/Fall, so I believe my hives are currently very full of honey, some are likely very crammed, with comb on the lid and all. This winter has been rather warm, so I believe they've still largely been foraging thus far.

Is it possibly too late to merely do a honey extraction and free up space? Is it possible that, they've already decided that they want to swarm in the spring time, and regardless of how much space I provide, this is what they'll do?

My hives don't have queen excluders. I'm under the impression that, they're more likely to swarm if the queen doesn't have sufficient space to lay eggs, rather than the workers not having enough space to add honey/pollen. From what I've gathered, the queen likes to mostly stay in the bottom, centre part of the hive, regardless of whether there's a queen excluder or not. This, in turn becomes the "brood chamber" essentially, and that, it can be good practice to take frames that are full from the brood chamber, move them higher up in the hive and replace them with a mostly empty frame, so that the queen has all that extra space to lay eggs, which in turn reduces the hive's desire to swarm.

I still want to create some splits, as I want more beehives. If I can simply free up space now to largely mitigate the chance of swarming, that's what I'll do, then I can simply receive the Ligurians during October(one month after warm spring weather), and make the splits then. If it's too late to do this and if there's a decent chance of my hives swarming regardless, then it'd be best to create my own queens, and make splits using them.

From what I've gathered, the best way for me to make my own queens to split, is to choose the hive that I deem has the best genetic stock. Find the queen, and remove her; the bees will notice the absence of a queen, and will then create multiple queen cells to correct this. I can then go to the hive, and remove all of these queen cells except one, and then place each queen cell in it's own nuc, alongside nurses bees, eggs/larvae, honey and pollen: the queen will hatch, she'll get mated and the nuc will grow into an established hive. This method will equate to only one of my hives losing bee production.

My strongest, my productive high, happens to be my most aggressive hive. It's the only hive that I have where, if I walk near it for the first time in months, they might sting me without being provoked. I wish to replace this queen, so that the bees are more gentle. I'm somewhat concerned about replacing this queen with a Ligurian though, because of one of the disadvantages that comes with Ligurian stock: they breed in excessive numbers, and don't consider enough the flow of honey in the area. This hive is located in an apiary site that I very much like, as there's lots of biodiversity and plants with flowers around. However, I've only had my bees there for a year, and during the Summer the bees did not create a net profit of honey. It took until Autumn/Fall, for them to replace the honey that I took in Spring time. I believe this is likely due to their being a bush fire a few years ago at this apiary site; I believe that, the flowers should largely have recovered either this year, or the next. However, I am concerned that about giving this hive a Ligurian queen, and her then laying many eggs, then a poor flow of honey comes in and they end up eating through all the honey reserves. It's also quite difficult, and none worthwhile for me to move these bees to another site. I suppose if I was going to create my own queens, then I could simply give this hive one of the queen cells? Would that work?

Offline beepro

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Re: Spring time plan
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2018, 10:03:56 pm »
"....then I could simply give this hive one of the queen cells? Would that work?"

Yes, this would work if there is a flow on and the queen made it back from her mating flights.   If there is a better location than the present one then do move your hives.  If not you have to broad cast the flowering seeds for the Spring flow and summer dearth situation.

Offline beepro

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Re: Spring time plan
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2018, 10:49:55 pm »
Is your Apis Mellifera ligustica (AML bees) the typical Italians bees?


".... once the bees have decided that they want to swarm, it's quite difficult to encourage them to change the mind, that the only effective means in doing so is to split the hive."

Splitting the hive is not the only option to manage swarming.  On youtube there is a vid about cutting the cap broods out off the frame leaving some comb for the bees to draw out the comb.  This will reset their minds back in to hive build up mode again. It is no longer a swarm mode as they have to focus on rebuilding their brood nest.  I've take this step further to not cut out the cap broods but instead transferred all brood/larvae frames out to needy weaker hives.   This also solve your issue of having enough drawn frames by giving the booming hives new foundation frames to draw out since the queen has no place to lay. Leave them the pollen/nectar frames on the side.

"....Apparently, it's not a practice in this country to buy queens, to create splits with to mitigate spring time swarming."

Well, apparently during the early Spring time queens are hard to come by.  All beekeepers in your area also need these queens to manage their swarm and splits.  An old local Russian beekeeper told me that Spring bees are hard to come by in which I agree.   All you can do is to overwinter your own nucs for some spare Spring queens.  For that you have to devote more resources in to making anther nuc yard just for these nuc queens.  You can use them for swarm management, for sale, or for dead winter queen replacement. 

Another option is to continue with your Spring swarm management as usual.  Then later in the warm season you can buy the AML queens for requeening your exising AMM hives.  You can still devote an out yard for these queens to make more daughters to requeen your other AMM hives.  This option is slow but over time it can be accomplish to requeen all of your hives with the AML queens.  Without separting the AML yard and the AMM yard, the daughters you make will be a hybrid of both species.  Is this what you want?


"Is it possibly too late to merely do a honey extraction and free up space? Is it possible that, they've already decided that they want to swarm in the spring time, and regardless of how much space I provide, this is what they'll do?"

This Spring time like the many before it, do swarm management as usual.  Now before the Spring flow you have to extract these overwintered honey.  This will free up much needed drawn comb for swarm management if need to.  Don't worry too much for now since the flow is not yet on, you still have some time left to do swarm management.  All you can do is to do your best as much as possible.  Control what you can control!  It is that simple.
With a good flow and a continuous open hive expansion without the QE on, they will swarm especially on the 2nd year old queens.   Some will use a QE to control the brood nest expansion restricting the queen to lay.  You can try some experiment for yourself to see what will work for your area.  Bees will do what they want to do as long as there is a population to support their purpose.  Surely, having enough space will help but they need to swarm to reproduce too, no matter if more room for the queen to lay or for the workers to deposit their honey.   We can only try!


"....the queen likes to mostly stay in the bottom, centre part of the hive, regardless of whether there's a queen excluder or not...."

On my 5 level nuc hive post here, I've mentioned that the bees like to build an oval shape brood nest surrounded by honey top and pollen/nectar bottom.  And with a QE on confining the queen to the bottom box, the bottom box is full of cap broods, no honey/pollen at all. Pollen/nectar in the 2nd box above the brood nest and honey in the top boxes.  So when use right the QE has a purpose.  You just need to run more experiment and tracking them to learn more.  No need to guess about what the bees will do next once you understand and see their Spring expansion mode and winter contraction mode.  This in depth understanding about your bees' hive dynamic will put you in a better position of hive management for queens rearing, honey harvest, splits and swarm control.

"....This method will equate to only one of my hives losing bee production."

If you manage it right, you will not lose any bee production or honey production.  As a matter of fact bees and honey will increase as well.  This is the secret of making queen cells and honey harvest at the same time.  By using cap broods from other support hives. Now you have both queens and honey without losing anything.  Learn the right method to do this.

".... I am concerned that about giving this hive a Ligurian queen, and her then laying many eggs, then a poor flow of honey comes in and they end up eating through all the honey reserves."

Either way with the AMM or AML queen, they will consume your honey reserves once brood nest expansion is on the way.  It is natural for them to use existing hive resources for this purpose.  You either have to harvest the real honey and then feed them back the sugar syrup or plant more flowers for them both nectar and pollen producing species in this bee yard when nature cannot supply the needed resources.  See my Hubam plot post for some updates.  Some are over 9' now producing lots of flowers.  There is always a way around it in beekeeping if you plan it out in advance.



« Last Edit: July 02, 2018, 07:18:44 pm by beepro »

Offline omnimirage

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Re: Spring time plan
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2018, 12:42:53 am »
It's not practical for me to move these bees. I'm just going to have to not harvest much during Spring and hope this Summer is better. I think I will feed this apiary sugar syrup during the upcoming summer.

Yes, Apis Mellifera ligustica is the scientific word that refers to Italian, or Ligurian bees.

Good idea about giving weaker hives frames full of brood!

Ideally, I'd like my stock to be predominately AML bees. However, the local feral drones are AMM; it can't be avoided for them to mate with my queens, so I'm bound to have at hybrid breeds. I am interested in establishing an apiary though with only AML breeds, so that, perhaps in a future spring time, I can create queens from the best hive out of this yard, instead of a AMM apiary.

I'm under the impression that, using a QE increases the risk of swarming as the queen isn't able to expand as easily, so she's more likely to run out of space and swarm because of so.


Offline beepro

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Re: Spring time plan
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2018, 07:50:24 pm »
"Good idea about giving weaker hives frames full of brood!

I'm under the impression that, using a QE increases the risk of swarming as the queen isn't able to expand as easily, so she's more likely to run out of space and swarm because of so."


Be careful that adding too many brood frames to a weak hive will make it too strong.  It is all about timing it right.  If not you will have too many issues with swarm management both the weak hive before, now strong and all the strong booming hives.   Either way the swarm issue all beekeepers have to deal with each season.


Using a QE will restrict the brood nest expansion to the bottom box only.  This has the ability to limit the number of young nurse bees ratio to that of the foragers when manage correctly.  When all the bottom frames are fill up with broods the queen can take a rest too.  As long as you can control the young nurse bees to not overcrowd the hive they don't have the bee numbers to swam.  This will depend on how you manage and your skills at it.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2018, 08:01:43 pm by beepro »

Offline omnimirage

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Re: Spring time plan
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2018, 01:52:19 am »
That sure is pretty darn interesting regarding QE and nurse bee population, thanks!

 

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