Is my hive going to swarm? Help!

[LizzieBee]

On the 13th I moved two frames of capped brood above the QE in a brood box that was other than the two frames of brood, just super frames with foundation. I guess I didn't notice that there were eggs on the frames/the queen slipped through the excluder because today I just looked in the super and found two queen cells. When I pulled the frames out, I guess I sort of opened the queen cells, probably slid them against the frame next to them. I removed the larva because the cells were too smashed. I am 100% sure when I moved the frames that the queen was below the QE because I saw her on another frame and also checked the frames I was moving. There is a heavy nectar flow right now. I really don't want them swarming and I also don't want to split the hive. I just want a big, strong, heathy hive. Is it possible? Maybe the bees decided to raise a queen above the excluder just cause the original queen couldn't get up there?  There are only two drawn frames, those are the deep brood frames I moved from the lower box. Or did the queen manage to get up there and they're all planning to swarm? I really need to do an overall inspection of the hive. Oh and one more thing, I was part of a 4H beekeeping project and the leader suggested when I got my package of bees that the queen was clipped. Which then means that she'll either end up on the ground if they swarm, or maybe if a queen hatches she'll swarm instead?

Any help appreciated. Let me know if I'm missing important info.

Lizzie

[LizzieBee]

I got my package of bees in early April. The queen is a Carniolan.

[beepro]

Take it easy, Lizz.   Your hive is safe for now.
Putting the frames above the QE will not make them swarm.  Even when the
virgin emerged in the upper box this hive will not swarm.  Like you said they
have a wing clipped queen.   So even if they did then they won't get far.  If you
see a ball of bees on the ground or hanging by the box then probably the old queen
is in there.   

Last night I found a virgin that emerged above the QE.  She's a large strong queen.
Because this hive is not a really strong hive they did not swarm.  But the virgin try
her best to slip by the QE going down there.   Her thorax is too large so she cannot.  I
then put her into another split nuc hive.  She should be safe for a while!

[LizzieBee]

I just made an upper entrance with my dad (four piece wooden frame with screws on the corners so it is a rectangle and a small opening on one side). I put it directly on top of the QE.

Lizzie

[cao]

I would say that those queen cells are not swarm cells but supercedure cells.  The difference being that the brood(eggs) were above the excluder away from the queen.  If you take a frame of eggs and put it on top of a hive above the honey dome(where the queen won't cross), the bees will make queen cells and they will supercede the original queen.  I think that is what happened with your brood above the excluder.  If you remove the damaged queen cells, I think that you will be fine.  Although a full inspection would not hurt(to check for queen cells below the excluder).  Keep us informed.

[Acebird]

Just get rid of the QE.

[BeeMaster2]

What Ace said x2.
Jim

[moebees]

Its not unusual for them to make queen cells when you move brood above a queen excluder.  Its similar to a cloake board and makes the bees in the top think they are queenless.  No big deal.

[LizzieBee]

Oh ok. Thanks for all the help. Why remove the QE? The box above the excluder is for honey.

[moebees]

Oh ok. Thanks for all the help. Why remove the QE? The box above the excluder is for honey.

Some people don't like QE because they can make management more difficult.  Increase swarming, reduce honey, etc.  I use them because I want my queen in the bottom two boxes.  I don't want to have hunt through a stack of 5 boxes to find her.  But the critiques are correct that they can be a PTA.

[Acebird]

Oh ok. Thanks for all the help. Why remove the QE? The box above the excluder is for honey.

You are not going to get any honey this year without losing the hive.  Once you get enough frames drawn out you can use the QE to keep brood out of your honey supers.  If there is a honey cap (and there should be) in the top brood box then the queen will not go into the honey super anyway.

[beepro]

When I use a QE on my 5 level deep nucs, there is no issue with storing honey.  I manage it to
also make QCs above the QE.   Again, without any issue either.

But as soon as I removed the QE or put the dinky queen in there, eggs are deposited into the upper honey
supers.   They like to create a dome shape honey band like an oval hive.    So in situation that you manage it
right using a QE can have its benefits.    Yes, upper supers are for honey harvest not for the queen to lay in while the
bottom box is full of nectar/pollen frames.   I say leave the QE on for now.   If you want 2 brood boxes then use 2 instead.

[LizzieBee]

I did a hive inspection today. I found two queen cups (hence cup and not cell). I also saw the queen. There is a lot of honey in the rest of the hive, and I found two frames of just pollen. The bees are drawing out the super. I haven?t seen any bees going in or out the new upper entrance. I see an occasional bee poke her head out, but no other activity. Should I expect to see more as the super frames are drawn?

Question about mites:
About a week ago I saw a small drone outside the hive, his wings were deformed, and unable to fly. Today I found a normal sized drone a few yards from the hive. One of his four wings was crumpled. Assuming the deformity is due to mites, does this mean I should treat for mites or is this normal even if there are few mites?

Lizzie

[Acebird]

I see an occasional bee poke her head out, but no other activity. Should I expect to see more as the super frames are drawn?

Unless you force the bees to use that entrance by closing off the other it will be a slow transition.  The majority of the bees are still going to use the entrance they oriented to.
IMO treating bees is bad.  Treating bees with honey is very bad.  These are choices you have to make.

[moebees]

As ace said they won't take to use the upper entrance for a long time if at all.  Mine often don't use them but I leave them open because of the wet humid environment where I am I hope that it helps them dry nectar. 

If you are seeing deformed wings you already have the virus.  Treating for mites at this point may not help.  I don't know, I am treatment free anyway.   So if it were me I would either let it run its course or requeen.

[LizzieBee]

Why is it bad to treat bees when they have honey? The only treatment I use (and I?ve only done it once in May) was powder sugar. I didn?t see any mites on the bottom board tray.

Lizzie

[sc-bee]

I would say that those queen cells are not swarm cells but supercedure cells.

supercedure????..... She accidentally made them think they were queenless.

[Acebird]

Why is it bad to treat bees when they have honey?

I am referring to chemical treatments like pesticides.

[LizzieBee]

Ace, in that case, I can do the powder sugar treatment next time? I never plan on using pesticides, not even on the property. My neighbors occasionally use roundup though.

Lizzie

[moebees]

Ace, in that case, I can do the powder sugar treatment next time? I never plan on using pesticides, not even on the property. My neighbors occasionally use roundup though.

Lizzie

Good for you. We need more beekeepers and people in general that don't don't use pesticides.

[BeeMaster2]

Lizzie,
I have bottom and top entrances on all of my hives. The field bees will not switch to the new entrance but the next brood that hatches may. If the top super is empty they probably will not use it.
Jim

[sc-bee]

Ace, in that case, I can do the powder sugar treatment next time? I never plan on using pesticides, not even on the property. My neighbors occasionally use roundup though.

Lizzie

Quote per Randy Oliver .... powder sugar treatments just delay the inevitable. Lizzie I know you are new so here is a website to ponder  The most comprehensive site you will find on varroa....at least to my knowledge...

http://scientificbeekeeping.com/

[beepro]

Majority of the mites at this time are on the drone broods.  The drones will carry them to
spread around other hives because drones have a free pass to all hives.

Even though our flow is on now, I already took out the cap broods 2 times, drones included, to other
nuc hives to make mating nucs for the coming new queens.   Then put in a frame with half-broods to
capture the remaining free running mites from this hive.    Later on I will make it queen right again.   

If we don't have a method to remove the mites then in August they will over run the hive.   This is how I do
it without any form of chemical or sugar treatment.    Just removed the mites!

[LizzieBee]

On one side of a frame in the honey super the bees have completely drawn it out but are not filling it with honey. I'm assuming when the bees go through the lower main entrance that they just fill the cells down there with nectar. There is a heavy nectar flow. If I block the lower entrance so they begin to use the upper entrance to (hopefully) fill the super cells, how long should it be blocked? I've seen a drone fly through the upper entrance once, but no workers. There are usually two bees standing outside the upper entrance.

Lizzie

[moebees]

On one side of a frame in the honey super the bees have completely drawn it out but are not filling it with honey. I'm assuming when the bees go through the lower main entrance that they just fill the cells down there with nectar. There is a heavy nectar flow. If I block the lower entrance so they begin to use the upper entrance to (hopefully) fill the super cells, how long should it be blocked? I've seen a drone fly through the upper entrance once, but no workers. There are usually two bees standing outside the upper entrance.

Lizzie

Field bees pass nectar to house bees so I don't know that it makes a difference what entrance they go in.