Brood Box Entrance

[Bush_84]

I?ve read in a few places about people putting 3/4? holes in each brood box. Anybody here do this?  Seems like a beneficial change, but I?m always a bit hesitant to drill holes in my boxes. My biggest hive last year will need a box or two switched out in spring (hoping they make it).  Figure I may use them as a trial. I can always plug up the holes with corks as I go if I want to reduce them down.

[tjc1]

I inherited a couple of boxes with these holes but plugged them with corks - I didn't like the fact that they were difficult to control in terms of closing or enlarging, as you can with the standard lower entrance.

[little john]

This is exactly what I do these days - but then, I'm not a honey-farmer with massive flows going on around me.  It's a tip I picked-up from the Natural Beekeeping guys - I first tried it with a KTBH (which I later converted to deep frame), and found it worked so well that I decided to stay with the method.  I've now settled on 4 holes for brood boxes, 2 for 5-frame nuc boxes and 1 for mating-nucs.  Adjusting, fully closing or transporting has now become a breeze.  It's a particularly good method for anything non-standard - like divided boxes, or queen castles.

Most of my boxes have these holes near the bottom, but I do have a couple of 'specials' which I use together with a turntable for queen-rearing, with holes at both bottom and top, so I can then swap entrance positions easily.

Personally, I wouldn't change from this format - but then I do make most of my own boxes, so that they have minimal re-sale value.  If I'd purchased uber-expensive cedar boxes (or was a serious honey-farmer), then I'd probably have stayed with the standard configuration.

LJ

[Bush_84]

I build almost all of my own equipment. I?ve built some frame but generally purchase those as they are putzy to build. So I don?t have fancy boxes or anything. How would drilling holes reduce honey harvest?  I was thinking about still using a reduced bottom entrance and just adding these holes?

[little john]

It's not so much reduce the honey harvest, as reducing congestion at the entrance during mega-flows (which I never get to see).  Our Brit boxes are 460mm (18") wide - so, take off 40mm for the 2 sides, and that leaves 420mm.  If each bee needs (say) 4mm of entrance, that means 100 bees can enter or leave a full-width slot at the same time.

I've never counted bee movements through my 4x 22mm (3/4") holes - but I'd guess 20-ish ?  Which is enough for the nectar flows I get to see.  Most of the year, two of those holes open is enough.

One of the best ideas I've seen regarding entrances, is to make entrance holes in every box - including supers - which then allows the bees to dump their nectar as close to the honey storage area as possible.  That must be a more efficient set-up.
LJ

[cao]

I think it it more of a personal preference than a benifit.  I run all my hives with reducers on all year.  The entrances are 3/8" tall by 1"(nucs) by 2 1/2"-3"(full hives).  I haven't seen any trouble with congestion with my big hives(5-6 boxes tall) during a flow.  I think an upper entrance would be more of a benefit than holes in brood boxes.  I just don't like the idea of the returning foragers flying around during inspection.  I'll just keep my bottom entrances.

[little john]

I haven't seen any trouble with congestion with my big hives(5-6 boxes tall) during a flow.

Such hive sizes are well out of my experience - and I've even seen photographs of box stacks in the US taller than 6.  I'm assuming that such tall stacks are essential ?  I've often wondered how you guys go about inspecting those brood boxes - as shifting that quantity of boxes around each week can't be any joke.

Has no-one ever come up with a brood-box modification so that frames can be pulled out from the rear, leaving the full stack intact during an inspection ?  Would save a helluva lot of sweat.
LJ

[AR Beekeeper]

Usually there are no inspections of the brood area after the beginning of the nectar flow, all brood inspections are done before the addition of the surplus honey supers.

Those very tall stacks are not common to all beekeeping areas of the U. S. A., 2 to 4 medium supers would be a good surplus in the area I live in.  In the flat lands of Arkansas where row crops are planted the surplus honey harvest is good, but not so good in the hill country.  A spring harvest here is usually 30 to 60 pounds.

[Acebird]

I?ve read in a few places about people putting 3/4? holes in each brood box. Anybody here do this?

As Michael Bush would say don't ruin your boxes.  I didn't listen and now I do.

[Acebird]

One of the best ideas I've seen regarding entrances, is to make entrance holes in every box - including supers - which then allows the bees to dump their nectar as close to the honey storage area as possible.  That must be a more efficient set-up.
LJ

You would think after a hundred years of commercial beekeeping shortening the distance to where the honey is stored would be adopted by every commercial beekeeper but the opposite is true.  None of them do it.
I have a vent in my inner cover that could be considered an entrance and what I find is it has heavy traffic in early spring and it tapers off to almost nothing in the summer.  I think the colony is much happier and more likely to defend the top supers when there is heavy traffic through the brood nest.  I think if a hive only has a top entrance it is a human assumption that there is not heavy traffic through the brood nest.  The bees use nectar to feed brood so if the only entrance is the upper then there is a whole lot of up and down to get it.
I have not proven it but my suspicion is if you had both entrances of equal size, upper and lower, the hive would be less productive and be susceptible to robbing.  Drilling holes in every box would be like making a perfume box of honey and nectar when the wind blows (come and get it).

[little john]

I?ve read in a few places about people putting 3/4? holes in each brood box. Anybody here do this? 

As Michael Bush would say don't ruin your boxes.  I didn't listen and now I do.

Why quote from MB ?  He's one beekeeper amongst hundreds of thousands ...

I'm currently planning on drilling an extra hole at the back, near the top - for the direct introduction of Oxalic Acid dust - should save a lot of time faffing about when dosing with OA.  Not an original idea by any means, many commercial Spanish beekeepers who use multi-dosing equipment already do this.  Hole is corked-off when not being used. 
How can making a box 'fit for purpose' be ruining it ?
LJ

[Van, Arkansas, USA]

Lil John, question: are you speaking of sublimation of OA or fine dust to place in top hole?  Just wanted to clarify.   I am aware of approved sublimation OA methods in US.
Blessings

[Acebird]

How can making a box 'fit for purpose' be ruining it ?
LJ

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If it suits your fancy do it.  Forgetting it is there and screwing up your escape board or getting stung in the hand.  Go for it.  It doesn't help the bees.  It makes a beekeeper think they are needed that's all.

Oh BTW it was not Bush 84 that you quoted.

[Acebird]

Why quote from MB ?  He's one beekeeper amongst hundreds of thousands ...

He is one I admire.  Made my life with the bees so easy.

[little john]

How can making a box 'fit for purpose' be ruining it ?
LJ

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If it suits your fancy do it.  Forgetting it is there and screwing up your escape board or getting stung in the hand.  Go for it.  It doesn't help the bees.  It makes a beekeeper think they are needed that's all.

Oh BTW it was not Bush 84 that you quoted.

I don't understand ANY of the above, especially regarding a quote.

Let me briefly explain why a hole at the rear of the box will make it 'fit for purpose', but because our currencies and wood prices are so different, I'll need to talk in abstract terms.

Let's suppose my time is worth 10 units/hr and the price of a brood box is 20 units.  Thus a brood box will have a value of 2 hrs of my time.  As it happens I make them much cheaper than that, but let's stay with those figures for now.

If - by drilling a small hole at the rear of a box - this will enable me to save 15 minutes during each OA application, then after 8 applications the box will have paid for itself in this respect alone, not taking into account any normal amortisation balanced by the profitable raising of bees.  So, after a maximum of 8 years (or much less if multiple applications are ever made), that box can simply be burnt, given away, or sold at a lower than optimum price - without any financial loss having been made.  Apart from time-saving, this also promises to make OA application more convenient, and will certainly reduce the physical effort involved.

This has nothing to do with "fancy" or "feeling needed" - it is simply sound business practice.
LJ

[little john]

Lil John, question: are you speaking of sublimation of OA or fine dust to place in top hole?  Just wanted to clarify.   I am aware of approved sublimation OA methods in US.
Blessings

Hi Van.  I'm decided to use the term 'OA dust' in future as my own small contribution towards eliminating the widespread misunderstanding which surrounds Oxalic Acid Sublimation.

Because this method of delivering OA is performed by means of vapourising OA, many people seem to have assumed that a 'vapour' (vapor in the US) enters the hive - which is incorrect.  Oxalic Acid vapour is invisible, and only last for a few millimetres after leaving the heat source - at which time it reverts back from a gaseous state to the solid state (sublimation in the reverse direction) - but now the solid state is in the form of a visible white cloud of fine anhydrous micro-crystalline dust. (This is a temporary state of course, as the particles will eventually clump together as they pick up water molecules from the atmosphere.)

I have even read articles by university professors (who clearly do not have a background in organic chemistry) who describe the process as one of delivering OA vapour into the hive. But I stress - it's NOT vapour, but dust - and so the appropriate respiratory protection for such beekeeping activity is a good quality dust mask.

Like others, I used to use the abbreviation 'OAV' - which unfortunately suggests that the OA remains in the vapourised form.  Then I noticed that Jim (the sawdust maker) was using the abbreviation 'VOA': i.e. Vapourised (past tense) Oxalic Acid - which is much better, as indeed the dust IS being generated by the process of vapourisation.  But this term still doesn't accurately describe the material which actually enters the hive, so - unless I forget - I'll be using the term OA-dust from now on.

Cheers
LJ

[Acebird]

This has nothing to do with "fancy" or "feeling needed" - it is simply sound business practice.
LJ

I thought this thread was about boring holes in the boxes to make entrances and not about OAV.  If every box had a hole in it it would add time to the process plugging up all the holes.

I value my time as 1 unit and 2-3 unites is equal to a package of bees.  So every three unites of time I save not doing for bees what they do for themselves means I can buy more bees at zero cost.  And that doesn't include the cost of the chemical, equipment, or storage when not in use.

[Michael Bush]

>?ve read in a few places about people putting 3/4? holes in each brood box. Anybody here do this?

I have and always regretted it. There is nothing you accomplish by putting a hole in the box that you can't do by sliding the box back 3/4? or putting in a couple of shingle shims or using a Imirie shim.

 Here are times I regretted drilling holes:
? Times I wanted to close up a hive and forgot the hole. (moving and using a bee escape come to mind)
? Times I accidentally put my hand either over, under or in the hole when lifting the super.
? Times in winter when I wanted to close it up more.
? Times that a hive gets weak and forgets to guard both entrances and they get robbed and I have to find a way to close it off.
? Times that I need a box without a hole and the only one handy has a hole in it.

 If you have holes in your equipment you can plug them with a tin can lid tacked over the hole. In the beeyard in a pinch you can plug them temporarily with a wad of beeswax. But you have to remember it's there...