Bad buying experience with Oz-Armour

[omnimirage]

I bought this beesuit in July:

https://www.beekeepinggear.com.au/product-page/beekeeping-suit-oz-armour-ventilated-double-layers-super-cool

One of the things that particularly caught my attention with this suit was this line:

-Unique design Veil has a hard plastic insert on the top of the veil which keeps away its mesh from your face and cannot drop to your nose and you will never experience any bee stings plus it has sun protection.

I friggin hate getting stung through the veil. I need a mirror to see where they stung, they're difficult to remove and the face is sensitive to pain.

As soon as the suit arrived, I went to use it to do some needed work. I ended up getting stung quite a number of times through the veil even when doing my best to avoid such. The veil practically rests against my chin, I need to constantly wiggle my head back and push the veil forward, and brush off bees on the veil. Having emailed the company, they told me that some of the veils were damaged. I took some photos of the veil they sold me:

https://imgur.com/a/TxNXi

As you can see in the second photo, the veil is incredibly buckled out, causing the veil to then rest on the chin. They sent me a replacement veil without telling me first, they sent me a hat veil instead of a fencing veil. It happens to be a particularly good quality veil, but then I have a particularly large head and the veil doesn't fit, it's painful and gives me headaches trying. I said this to them, and they told me they didn't have any larger sizes, but they'd get in new stock in two months time. They then stopped replying to my emails and are apparently ignoring me now.

I'm not sure if I have any consumer rights here, I realised that I didn't handle this well but didn't expect the company to treat me with such disregard. I'm not sure if I can fix the broken veil or whether I should just trash it. Should I be able to find a veil from a different company that will work with this suit? Should I contact consumer affairs about this?

[omnimirage]

Here's the email exchanged that happened:



18 Jul
I recently purchased an expensive beesuit that was advertised as having a unique veil design, that's supposed to keep the mesh away from the face. I used it for the first time the other day, and out of the half a dozen or so beesuits that I've used in my life, it's by far the worst in terms of mesh touching my face. I got stung five times on my chin during my beekeeping, and was constantly pushing the veil ahead, and constantly brushing bees off my veil to prevent them from stinging me.

I'm very disappointed in this. I paid the extra money to get a suit that I was hoping I'd be happy with, and the mesh veil was one of the prime selling points for me.

I'm not sure if Oz Armour has deceived me by falsely advertising. Either way, I'm very disappointed, and plan to spread my experience to beekeepers on seven different forums, to local beekeeping friends and to the people at the local amateur beekeeping club, to warn about this product and your business and to advice to steer away.

- an upset customer
31 Jul

Hello

Firstly, sorry for the late reply, your email went to the junk folder.
If you are not happy with our product, we can give you 100% refund.
Please send us your details, order no, date of purchase.

We have sold hundreds of them and never had any issue, maybe your suit or veil faulty.

Our sincere apologies for the inconvenience.


Kind Regards

Azim

Australia: +612 96497361; Cell: +61 481 146 420

USA : +1 346 308 2194; UK : +44 203 769 3593; New Zealand: +64 98896581

E: sales@fase.com.au
W: www.fase.com.au
Address: Building A, 2 Fatory Street, Granville NSW 2142 Australia

31 Jul

Hey there,
Ive used the suit two times since purchasing it and its got a bit of dirt on it. Is that okay? Would it cost anything to return it?
I do wonder if its faulty or somehow just doesn't align with the structure of my face. I was wondering if it'd bend into place with time. Its really quite unfortunate as I love every thing else about the suit. its just awful that my chin is so exposed, its difficult to get stingers out of ones face when wearing a suit.
Kind regards,


to me

Hi



31 Jul



There is one possibility about the veil, we had one lot of veils and they were not good.
Could you please take a photo of the veil and sent it to me.
Kind Regards
Azim



16 Aug
Hi
We have shipped you a veil, please let us know if everything is OK with you.
Kind Regards

Azim

Australia: +612 96497361; Cell: +61 481 146 420

USA : +1 346 308 2194; UK : +44 203 769 3593; New Zealand: +64 98896581

E: sales@fase.com.au
W: www.fase.com.au
Address: Building A, 2 Fatory Street, Granville NSW 2142 Australia




17 Aug
I like the veil its particularly good quality. Unfortunately I have quite a large head, and its too uncomfortable wearing it, it hurts a little, so such isn't really suitable for me.
Did the photo of the veil I send, indicate it was of the dodgy batch?
I'm considering returning the suit for a refund. If I was to do so, should I wash it before returning? I've used it twice and a bit of dirt has gotten itself over the knee.
Regards,


21 Aug

Hi
We are happy to accept the returns but unfortunately, we no one will accept the dirty suit and we won?t be able to sell any one.
In this case you can buy extra Round brim hat or send the veil back and we will replace with the round brim hat.
Regards
Azim



21 Aug
What if I wash it and clean it as if it's new?


The problem for me is, you've sent two hats out so far, and they haven't been suitable to me. I'm left wondering if you're actually able to send me a suitable veil.


Do you have a round brim hat for people with particularly large heads?


Which veil should I return? The one where the bees sting me on the chin, or the one that doesn't fit on my head? Where do I send it to? What's the procedure for doing such?


Regards,




21 Aug

Hi
Sorry, people are very clever and picky, they return the item even there is a tiny spot. They will realize it is a used suit and won?t accept it.
I have a round brim hat but if fencing veil doesn?t fit, round brim hat will also not fit.
In almost 8 weeks? time, we will have a new stock with larger hats, once they arrive, I will send you the measurement.
Kind Regards
Azim




22 Aug
The round brim hat doesn't fit. The fencing veil presses against my chin.


It's quite disappointing that I have to wait two months, basically will get to use my suit after Spring. Pretty disappointed in this service.



15 Oct

I'd really like to be able to use the beesuit that I purchased months ago. Has there been any update on replacing the faulty veil? Having looked at the veil that was originally sent, it appears to be damaged, appears that a broken veil was sent. I can send some detailed photos if such helps.



13 Nov

Can I please get an update? Are you still going to replace the faulthy veil so that I can use the suit? I'm still unable to use it. If I don't receive some sort of reply then I'm going to document my experience to a number of beekeeping forums, showing the emails sent back and fourth and the pictures of the faulty veil that was sold.

[Oldbeavo]

Don't stress about the veil, just get some quieter bees. If I had bees wanting to sting me through a veil the box would be marked for requeening.

[BeeMaster2]

Omni,
Do you wear leather gloves. I suspect so. You crush the bees with the gloves because you cannot feel them. The bees sting the gloves. Then you put the gloves with sting pheromone(smells like bananas) back in the hive. Bees react to the pheromone and become aggressive. Try using nitrate gloves or better yet, smoke your hands and go clove less.
Jim

[Van, Arkansas, USA]

Omnimirage, you are a patient man.  So sorry for your disgust.  You are just an honest Dude, looking for a product.  Unfortunately the product appears to be defective as well as the company.  I can't advise you what to do but I can sympathize.  My sympathy probably does not help the bee stings though.
Blessings

[Acebird]

https://imgur.com/a/TxNXi

As you can see in the second photo, the veil is incredibly buckled out, causing the veil to then rest on the chin.

It is hard for me to see the defect when you are not wearing it but anyhow during the resolution time you could put something inside the veil to push it out or wear a dust mask if the chin is the only vulnerable area of your face.  I have a fencing veil and it would only touch my nose if I tilted my head back.  I am guessing you will not find another manufacturer veil that will fit that suit.  If you bought any piece of clothing and you soiled it you would not be able to return it ... just saying.
It seems to me that you should order another fencing veil for this suit and if it doesn't work (meaning it touches your face) then return it unused.  Then your only recourse is to make the old one work for you.

[omnimirage]

I've worked with commercial apiarists in my state and it's been common enough for bees to be aggressive to the point where they'll try to sting you wherever they can. If one's chin is pressed against the veil then they'll go for that chin. For me the face is part of my body I want to protect most.

I do wear gloves sawdstmakr. What's the benefit to nitrate gloves?

Acebird:
I should have put a popstick or something on my chin in the suit so that I can show how it's directly pressing against it.

I was thinking of using a dust mask huh.

It was foolish of me to wear the suit when with the bees instead of trying it at home. All this could have been avoided if only I had the hindsight. Learn from our mistakes I suppose.

[Van, Arkansas, USA]

Nitrate, actually nitrile gloves is similar to latex.  The advantage of nitrile gloves is nitrile is tougher than latex, thus more difficult for a bee to penetrate the glove with their stinger.   The gloves can be purchased in boxes of 25-100 pair.  A real advantage, as Jim pointed out to nitrile gloves is they are scent free, disposable.  Leather gloves hold the bees attack scent.  You should follow Jim's advice and purchase some nitrile gloves.  They are not expensive, good to have around, mutiple purpose gloves.

Thanks again, Jim for the heads up, posting to a years old post I was.
Blessings

[omnimirage]

So my old worn leather gloves will have bee pheromones on them from previous usage and influence the bees in becoming aggressive so disposable gloves have advantaged in that regards?

If I want to wear my leather gloves could washing them after every use eliminate the scent, or does it become infused into the leather?

[paus]

I have been using Nitrile gloves for a couple of years when I don't go commando with my smoked  hands only. I started with 7mil then 9mil now I use 12mil from Amazon, only been stung through them one time.  I also use a pair of chemical gloves 22mil for bumble bees, yellow jackets etc. My only problems with Nitrile are, hands sweat, hard to get on, must be reversed and washed after a few hours use, for obvious reasons. 

[Acebird]

If I want to wear my leather gloves could washing them after every use eliminate the scent, or does it become infused into the leather?

You should wash them and smoke the heck out of them until the problem goes away.
Then once you feel you're not under attack take one off and move very slowly.  Psych yourself out so you can stand a bee landing on your bear hand.  I can't guarantee it but the odds are the bee / bees will not sting you.  Smoking this bare hand first will not hurt.  It might cover the adrenaline smell from this first experience.  If you can stand a bee / bees crawling on that hand then the bees can stand you.  One quick shake will just put them in flight.  Swatting at them will set the stage of you against them and there is only one of you.

I have tried all kinds of gloves.  About the only thing that bees can't sting through is heavy leather gloves.  My feeling is they are meant for cut outs and commercial operators that handle bees like a bull in a china closet.  Watch some video's of Dee in Arizona you will get the drift.

[gww]

I use the cheapest, thinnest hospital gloves they make.  I do smoke them.  The bees can sting though them.  I have usually ripped them some place before I do much.  It seems like the bees don't like to climb on the gloves.  I have had what seemed to be agression and when they get to the glove they seem to change thier mind about stinging.  I did get stung when taking honey but had squashed a bee with an involentary jerk in a place where the glove was ripped.  I think I have been stung through the glove exactly once.  I do no have a lot of hives and your hands do sweat.  I like them better then going bare handed cause of the few bees that jumped to my hands and then did nothing.  I am too scared to have worked the bees with nothing to know wether those bees would have acted the same had I been bare handed.  I think they would have stung me.  I still make some jerky movements when working my hives, some due to weakness when dealing with the heavier parts and some due to involentary muscle jerks which might be nervousness or just things that are happenning as I get older.

I think that the bees don't like the texture of the gloves and shy away though.  I would like to try nitrile gloves but the other were free and I was cheep.  I wish the sleeves were longer on the ones I use.

To me it sounds like your bees are pretty mean compared to mine but I have not had bees long and mine might be mean or really nice but I have no referance.
Good luck
gww

[Acebird]

LOL gww I still swat at bees that buss my ears even though I know I am going to get it in the end.  I have had two maybe three bees nail me usually in the head for no reason at all.  It probably wouldn't make any difference what I used for protection, they are on a kamikaze mission and it only ends when they completed their mission.  My goal is to become a beekeeper.  Has nothing to do with treating or not treating.  To me it has to do with being calm among thousands of bees.  Still working on it.

[omnimirage]

I'm fine with bees walking on my hand I'm not nervous about it. I like wearing gloves simply because I find if I don't random flying bees come and sting me on the hand. My gloves do tend to attract a fair amount of stingers to them I've never thought about pheromones on them. Maybe my hives are aggressive or I'm doing something to agitate them, I can be a bit clumsy and bash around more than would be good but I'm also generally rather calm and slow with my movements.

I have a friend who does beekeeping with me sometimes. He's very scared of the bees, and thinks it's the most terrible awful thing when he gets stung. Last time, he got stung a few times through his gloves, they got him on the bottom of his palm, just before where the leather meets it. I want to find him more heavy duty gloves, but I couldnt find anything that covers that part of his body.

[gww]

Ace
The last time I got stung was right after I put wet combs back in the hives.  It was a derth and I was setting on my little obsevation chair off to the side and a bee was checking me out and bumped me three times really fast, too fast to get up and move and nailed me in the eye lid.

I have had just one bee run me off the bucket before because she was too interested in me and would not let up but I usually sit there a little every day and have no issue.  I read in langstroths book and he had the opinion that bees that flew out of thier way to get you were sick bees.  He said he wished he knew what kind of sick and he would save hives but that if you smashed them they would be full of a puss.  I just added that cause I found it interesting when I read it.

I had got the bees interested in each other taking honey off durring a derth though.
Cheers
gww

[BeeMaster2]

Washing the leather gloves will help but they will get stiffer. Smoke your gloves before you use them. This will help cover up what does not wash out. 
Jim

[omnimirage]

That is interesting gww about the aggressive sick bees.

My leather gloves are incredibly stiff they're difficult to work with now. Good to know about smoking the gloves. If I get stung, should I smoke the mark for the same reason? I know bees like to sting a location that was recently stung.

[gww]

I have read to smoke where they sting and do practice it but like I said earlier, I am pretty new to really know anything.
Cheers
gww

[little john]

Omni - with regard to that veil ...

If it's only touching one part of your face, then perhaps consider sticking a little 'something' (not sure of what, right at this moment) onto the inner surface of the veil where it contacts the chin, or wherever it offends.  That way you will have a 'solid' surface in just that area through which the bees can't sting you.

Something along the lines of a strip of Elastoplast (tm), perhaps ? Although adhesive through the mesh might become messy over time ... unless you were to place a strip on both sides of the mesh ?

Some kind of material which will adhere to the mesh, and yet still remain reasonably flexible.

LJ

[little john]

If I get stung, should I smoke the mark for the same reason? I know bees like to sting a location that was recently stung.

Oh yes - most certainly.  I smoke the area straight away, then - whenever convenient, apply a dab of vinegar to the spot, or preferably Olbas Oil - which the bees avoid due to it's uber-powerful smell. 
If I ever need to 'go commmando' hand-wise, I usually apply a couple of spots of Olbas Oil to the back of my hands, as being stung on the hands invariably spoils my day.
LJ