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Author Topic: Propolis between end bars  (Read 910 times)

Offline Acebird

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Re: Propolis between end bars
« Reply #20 on: August 30, 2017, 05:09:06 pm »
A frame top-bar needs end-float in order for it to be inserted into the box. When the bees propolise that gap, and it then hardens, the end-float no longer exists.  Add to this deposits of propolis on either side of the frame's location, and it soon becomes very difficult indeed to insert that frame - unless you intend hammering it in, of course.
If the same frame went back where it was taken it should fit nicely.  If you move frames or change their orientation I can see where there would be more of a problem.  If you are constantly in your hives I think you shouldn't be.
Brian Cardinal
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Offline eltalia

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Re: Propolis between end bars
« Reply #21 on: August 30, 2017, 05:36:21 pm »

(edit)
Some people (especially knitters) like redundant tedious tasks.  I'm happy for them.   I am not planning to take up knitting or scraping propolis.

I must have straight rows in the corn planting, That about fills my obssesion bag ;-)
Maybe it's a colony thing?
This colony is a few months old, builds little propolis but has the capacity to if needed. Note
the vent in this box only put on last week - conditions are are around 24C/65% rH.

... an' no commentry on my fastidious carpentry skills, thanks folks :-)
I took a series of shots for another post, another thread, and later.

Cheers.


Bill

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Offline eltalia

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Re: Propolis between end bars
« Reply #22 on: August 31, 2017, 01:08:35 am »
(edit)
It's not a question of "mind over matter", it's simply a case of removing the propolis in order to restore the necessary end-float. If people find that too much trouble, then perhaps they should take up knitting instead.

LJ

..errrm, apparently significant numbers of folk do, find it too much trouble.
Mentioned in a recent read it is this line of broadcast that has me tapping the fingers on
the desk and doing a "mmmmmm, what!?".

https://phys.org/news/2017-08-evolutionary-ecology-benefit-beekeepers-diseases.html
"Propolis is sticky. That annoys beekeepers trying to open hives and separate the
components so they try to breed out this behavior," de Roode says."


Cheers.


Bill

Offline tjc1

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Re: Propolis between end bars
« Reply #23 on: August 31, 2017, 10:14:02 am »
  Some people (especially knitters) like redundant tedious tasks.  I'm happy for them.   I am not planning to take up knitting or scraping propolis.

Point of the conversation aside, that was just funny! :)

Offline eltalia

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Re: Propolis between end bars
« Reply #24 on: August 31, 2017, 10:23:58 am »
  Some people (especially knitters) like redundant tedious tasks.  I'm happy for them.   I am not planning to take up knitting or scraping propolis.

Point of the conversation aside, that was just funny! :)

Indeed... Michael has his "star rising" moments ;-)))

Bill

(edited nym typo)
« Last Edit: August 31, 2017, 07:46:16 pm by eltalia »

Offline Acebird

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Re: Propolis between end bars
« Reply #25 on: August 31, 2017, 05:00:18 pm »
This colony is a few months old, builds little propolis but has the capacity to if needed. Note
the vent in this box only put on last week

No screen smaller than 1/8 square should be used in a hive where the bees have access.  Looking at the oldest frame in this hive compares to nothing I have in my hives.  The race of bees must be different.
Brian Cardinal
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Offline eltalia

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Re: Propolis between end bars
« Reply #26 on: August 31, 2017, 08:19:55 pm »
"The race of bees must be different."

As in..?... never seen before, either?
Well, I can tellya this much - as search terms in finding like stock;

1. They stay put, do not swarm at the drop of a hat
2. They are not prolific propolis builders, putting their energy into
drawing comb - I have pix to go with another post for a new tppic.
3. They can bee worked in inclement weather, and at dusk without
beecoming overly agitated.
4. They build sufficient drone comb for their needs, no more no
less, so no hordes of drones hanging about.
5. Since playing with topbar concepts - of which there are maybe
a good dozen in that colony now - I have been astounded as to how
they took to building straight well engineered comb. Others looking
on have commented.. "it IS perfect, amazing!".
6. They are fastidious housekeepers, polishing everything with that
brilliant sheen a french polisher would give his left nut to achieve, in finish.
7. Queen(original) bred in souEast Queensland they are obviously
"zone" tolerant loving it here in much warmer climes.
8. Do not sting my dogs, despite the fact my main girl eats as many as she
can catch - that alone reflects tolerance beyond the call of duty!
9. As yet they show no propensity to rob, despite having plenty of opportunity.
10. Their markings and broader colours are strikingly different to our bush bees
which makes beelining of the bush bees easy indeed.

Why are they not then "perfect"?
Their attention to pollen is slack, to say the least. So it is it is only in retirement
could I give these fellas a home ;-)

.... did I say my line is a great bee for beehavers?


Cheers.

Bill

Offline Acebird

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Re: Propolis between end bars
« Reply #27 on: August 31, 2017, 10:11:03 pm »
.... did I say my line is a great bee for beehavers?
Judging from the characteristics you boast I would say the line is anything but beehavers.  Just because you yourself are a beehaver doesn't mean you are not influenced by the commercial breeders that supply most managed hives.  I personally do not lose sight of that.
Brian Cardinal
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Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: Propolis between end bars
« Reply #28 on: August 31, 2017, 10:56:25 pm »
This colony is a few months old, builds little propolis but has the capacity to if needed. Note
the vent in this box only put on last week

No screen smaller than 1/8 square should be used in a hive where the bees have access.  Looking at the oldest frame in this hive compares to nothing I have in my hives.  The race of bees must be different.
Brian,
Did you mean to say no larger than #8 wire?
Jim
"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed.  If you do read the newspaper you are misinformed."--Mark Twain

Offline tjc1

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Re: Propolis between end bars
« Reply #29 on: August 31, 2017, 11:05:24 pm »

[/quote]
 Looking at the oldest frame in this hive compares to nothing I have in my hives.  The race of bees must be different.
[/quote]

Hi Brian - looking at the photo, I'm not sure what you mean here about the frame looking different...

Offline eltalia

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Re: Propolis between end bars
« Reply #30 on: August 31, 2017, 11:54:51 pm »
"I personally do not lose sight of that"

Yet despite following around _all_ of my postings, humping away, you
have lost sight of my discipline today, in apiary management.
A discipline well 'advertised' amongst my advices.
To highlight it for your diminishing sight (typos as evidence) I
reiterate - I run a bee rescue service, for local "beehavers"... hence the
bottom line.. heh.

chow baby ; laughs:

Bill

--
ps: my friend you would be one I could charge for the service as
some just do not learn until it hits the hip pocket, like ;->

[edited typos : chuckle: ]
« Last Edit: September 01, 2017, 12:18:11 am by eltalia »

Offline Acebird

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Re: Propolis between end bars
« Reply #31 on: September 01, 2017, 08:22:52 am »
Brian,
Did you mean to say no larger than #8 wire?
Jim
[/quote]
No Jim, for a vent no smaller than #8 wire because they will propolise it shut.  If you are trying to keep bees contained then no larger then #8 wire.  So basically a beekeeper only needs to have #8 screen stock for everything they need in a hive.
Brian Cardinal
Just do it

Offline Acebird

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Re: Propolis between end bars
« Reply #32 on: September 01, 2017, 08:38:25 am »

Hi Brian - looking at the photo, I'm not sure what you mean here about the frame looking different...

The dark frame has not a spec of wax or propolise on the sides of the top bar yet the comb is wider then the bar.  My bees will build comb or support structure up on the sides of the top and bottom bars.  They may even build burr comb on top of the top bar contradicting the idea that bees cannot build from the bottom up.
In my third year of beekeeping I got to help a commercial beekeeper extract honey.  That gave me an opportunity to see what supers look like that have been used a number of years.  Some were so used the frames fell apart before they could be put in the extractor.  I didn't see any boxes that had the appearance shown in that photo.  So when I saw similar things in the commercial's boxes that I see in my own it was of no concern to me.

Here is one of my brood frames:
http://i697.photobucket.com/albums/vv333/acebird1/Inspection%202011/Inspection2011001.jpg
see the cells built up on the wood?
« Last Edit: September 01, 2017, 09:18:49 am by Acebird »
Brian Cardinal
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Propolis between end bars
« Reply #33 on: September 01, 2017, 09:08:55 am »
I run a bee rescue service, for local "beehavers"

IMO it would be better for the "beehavers" to listen to 10 beekeepers with a few years of experience than to listen to your endless boasts of experience.  I am not saying everything you say is wrong it is just way to painful to listen to.  It gives the beehaver the impression that beekeeping is far harder than it is and most likely they would lose interest.  New beekeepers/beehavers need to follow people like Michael Bush who not only has the expertise in writing he also tries to make the hobby enjoyable.
I ponder how many hives Michael has rescued giving advice on many internet forums.  If he took a dollar for each one he would be a rich man.  A mans worth is not measured by how many dollars he takes from those in need but by how much he gives to those in need.
Brian Cardinal
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Offline tjc1

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Re: Propolis between end bars
« Reply #34 on: September 01, 2017, 10:08:07 am »
I get ya - thanks Brian. My bees will do likewise, but they keep it fairly neat.

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: Propolis between end bars
« Reply #35 on: September 01, 2017, 10:27:13 am »
Brian,
Did you mean to say no larger than #8 wire?
Jim
No Jim, for a vent no smaller than #8 wire because they will propolise it shut.  If you are trying to keep bees contained then no larger then #8 wire.  So basically a beekeeper only needs to have #8 screen stock for everything they need in a hive.
[/quote]
Thanks for the answer.
I build almost all of my equipment. I do use window screen, preferably metal, for my screen top boards. I do not recommend using #8 for this purpose. The screen traps the SHBs that try to enter the hive through it. If it was made from #8 wire cloth they would go right through it. I kill lots of SHBs on top of the screen. They will propalize it but only about one inch from the edge. During the winter I sometimes remove them and the propolis easily pops off when it is cold.
Jim
"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed.  If you do read the newspaper you are misinformed."--Mark Twain

Offline eltalia

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Re: Propolis between end bars
« Reply #36 on: September 01, 2017, 10:48:16 am »

Hi Brian - looking at the photo, I'm not sure what you mean here about the frame looking different...
The dark frame has not a spec of wax or propolise on the sides of the top bar yet the comb is wider then the bar.
No Lang colony under my control does either of those things.
I run 9/10 in all brood chambers, so a little fat in the comb is a good thing
amongst brood, not a point of contention at all

Quote
  My bees will build comb or support structure up on the sides of the top and bottom bars.  They may even build burr comb on top of the top bar contradicting the idea that bees cannot build from the bottom up.
Clearly you struggle with more than language use. : grins:

Quote
In my third year of beekeeping I got to help a commercial beekeeper extract honey.  That gave me an opportunity to see what supers look like that have been used a number of years. 
The frame you cite - and a number of others in that box -  predate my Agri.School days, the very place the theory was put upon us in fear of bad grades.. heh

Quote
Some were so used the frames fell apart before they could be put in the extractor.
I won't critique your "commercial beekeeper" in h/is/er operations competency if you leave my carpentry competency well bee.. heh
Quote
I didn't see any boxes that had the appearance shown in that photo.  So when I saw similar things in the commercial's boxes that I see in my own it was of no concern to me.
What you see or claim to have seen has already been put to bed as
poor vision, evidence quoted - your poor attempt at coverage noted.
"because they will propolise it shut"-- what sheer nonsense! : smirks:

I am sure my treatise on airpaths will truly have you in coniptions when published... heh

Quote
Here is one of my brood frames:
http://i697.photobucket.com/albums/vv333/acebird1/Inspection%202011/Inspection2011001.jpg
see the cells built up on the wood?
I see a lot I would tellya how to fix... if you were a genuine beekeeper.

Michael Bush is a beekeeper, the real thing. But that is the end of it, there exist hundreds of thousands of like skilled personas around this planet. Some possibly way more philanthropic then he?
I'd wager that should you ask him he did meet a few whilst "Down Under", like :wink:

Compliments.

Bill


Offline Acebird

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Re: Propolis between end bars
« Reply #37 on: September 01, 2017, 01:47:00 pm »
I build almost all of my equipment. I do use window screen, preferably metal, for my screen top boards. I do not recommend using #8 for this purpose.

At this point in my experience it doesn't make sense to screen the top of a hive even on very hot days unless you are closing the bees in prior to a move.  If the bottom of the hive was closed off using top entrances it might make more sense to me.
Brian Cardinal
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Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: Propolis between end bars
« Reply #38 on: September 02, 2017, 12:11:21 am »
I used to leave the STB uncovered during the summer but I have found that when they are in the direct sunlight they do much better when I put an insulation board on the screen. This keeps the hive cooler and still allows me to look inside the top of the hive without disturbing them and trap SHBs. I really like using them.
Jim
Me to
"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed.  If you do read the newspaper you are misinformed."--Mark Twain