Author Topic: Vaporizer for oxalic acid? Also where to purchase? (Read 8464 times)

Fishing-Nut · « **on:** August 23, 2017, 12:07:54 am »

Ok.... couple of questions....again......I'm considering purchasing an insect fogger for treating for varroa. Which one do y'all recommend? Also I was reading online somewhere (possibly here) where someone blew the lid off of their hive using some sort of vaporizer.....I must admit I got a good laugh out of the mental image I got from that story. But it really wasn't funny, and I really don't want anything like that happening. Is this a common thing or what? I think I recall the person saying that they used some sort of liquor in the treatment. Like ever clear (grain alcohol) or something like that. I don't like or want any sort of explosion.

sc-bee · « **Reply #1 on:** August 23, 2017, 12:21:40 am »

Folks are experimenting with the insect foggers. I don't even know if they know what dose they are administering (pretty much guess work) I hear some say one trigger shot is one gram per box??? I don't think anyone really knows. They just don't want to come off the $485

for an OA vaporizer gun. Yes it is Everclear... alcohol and a propane flame

Maybe someone here has used the insect fogger?

Provap 110.... You would thick the coughing would be telling him something

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKc-BHi41R0

cao · « **Reply #2 on:** August 23, 2017, 01:07:11 am »

Sorry I can't advise on this subject. I haven't treated since I started keeping bees 5 years ago. I don't see myself ever treating. I started with 3 hives and now have 40+/- hives. I personally don't see the need.

sc-bee · « **Reply #3 on:** August 23, 2017, 05:09:34 am »

Quote from: cao on August 23, 2017, 01:07:11 am

Sorry I can't advise on this subject. I haven't treated since I started keeping bees 5 years ago. I don't see myself ever treating. I started with 3 hives and now have 40+/- hives. I personally don't see the need.

Umm I thought he asked about an OA vaporizer not being treatment free

Fishing-Nut · « **Reply #4 on:** August 23, 2017, 12:14:40 pm »

Check out a video by "barnyard bees" on YouTube. He takes some measurements and all, before he uses the fogger. I'm new to any kind of treatment, but with that hive absconding I really want to get some things in check the best I can before fall. Because come spring I want the bees to take off and I want to expand my yard next year.

GSF · « **Reply #5 on:** August 23, 2017, 02:52:28 pm »

I've been OAV'n for a few years now. Great results. I bought two of them so I can stick one in the hive and pull the other out. I think the last one I got was off of ebay or from Mann Lake.

jalentour · « **Reply #6 on:** August 23, 2017, 11:04:12 pm »

CAO,
May I visit your apiary?
Please PM.

little john · « **Reply #7 on:** August 24, 2017, 03:11:26 am »

I can't get my head around why people are messing around with solvents, when a simple heating device is all that's required to vapourise Oxalic Acid.

Evidence is that VOA (Vapourised Oxalic Acid) presents as being the best tool currently available in the fight against a nasty little parasite, and it would be counter-productive should VOA develop a bad reputation resulting from reckless methods of introduction.
LJ

eltalia · « **Reply #8 on:** August 24, 2017, 04:41:19 am »

:"Evidence is that VOA (Vapourised Oxalic Acid) presents as being the best tool currently available ... "

: nods:
.... what I have arrived at after reading copius paper on what is availble
and what has to be in the thousands of posts on the topic of VM as the asociated disease conduit.
http://www.glenn-apiaries.com/vsh_news.html

I was most pleased to read this brief recently;
http://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2017/varroa-mites-bees-archenemies-have-genetic-holes-in-their-armor/

Cheers.

Bill:

sc-bee · « **Reply #9 on:** August 24, 2017, 05:54:00 am »

Quote from: little john on August 24, 2017, 03:11:26 am

I can't get my head around why people are messing around with solvents, when a simple heating device is all that's required to vapourise Oxalic Acid.

Evidence is that VOA (Vapourised Oxalic Acid) presents as being the best tool currently available in the fight against a nasty little parasite, and it would be counter-productive should VOA develop a bad reputation resulting from reckless methods of introduction.
LJ

Absolutely... on top of blowing yourself up with a flame thrower full of ethyl alcohol

...

Groundhawg · « **Reply #10 on:** August 24, 2017, 01:55:02 pm »

Here some YouTube videos you might want to take a look at. What I have not been able to find is pre and post mite numbers before and using a fogger for treatment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuOdiKEw_1E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TGXX0NCW_Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQSMheVizGg&t=170s

Fishing-Nut · « **Reply #11 on:** August 24, 2017, 04:10:07 pm »

Folks, yesterday I went and got into the hives. I studied frame after frame full of bees and couldn't spot one single varroa mite. I know that's a good thing but does it say anything about the mite problem that I may (or may not) have?

herbhome · « **Reply #12 on:** August 24, 2017, 05:48:47 pm »

It's very hard to spot the little suckers on a bee. Placing a sticky board on the bottom will show mites that just fall off or are groomed off. Consensus seems to hold that an alcohol wash or powdered sugar shake are the best diagnostic tool, with most weight of opinion on the alcohol side.
Most importantly, I think, is the mite borne diseases. Look for dead or crawling bees on or near the landing board. Deformed Wing Virus and Chronic Bee Paralysis are the big ones to look for.

Hope this helps.

Fishing-Nut · « **Reply #13 on:** August 24, 2017, 06:31:56 pm »

From what I read if you had a serious problem you should be able to spot some if you looked long enough. But I guarantee I could be wrong. I did study the bees long enough for them to get good and upset with me though. I read that they were pretty visible on the back of the bees.

eltalia · « **Reply #14 on:** August 24, 2017, 07:15:52 pm »

[caveat]
never seen first hand a live VM.
never used a "sticky board"
never sucked on Oxalic Acid vapour - that I am aware of.
[/caveat]

I have read/seen so much material on VM these last weeks the exercise
has often had me retire to the tractor for some "time out" - it is a much
discussed topic with a great deal of subjective opinion.
Yet out of it all I have formed a way forward for the day VM is verified in
an Aussie colony, and have set to already in building a module for
training delivery.
Part of that is of course identification.
Cutback, to the surest method of least interference and equipment/time
investment, is the physical inspection of the underside abodomen of
nurse bees. The bee is picked up by the wings, turned over to expose it's
"belly" and the "tail" bent back. VM present will display as attached to the
"belly cracks" as they feed on the fatty tissue.
Sampling numbers of is another topic, but that is how you find one, alive
and doing the job the whole deal is about, growing numbers of.

Cheers.

Bill

eltalia · « **Reply #15 on:** August 24, 2017, 07:27:13 pm »

"Here some YouTube videos you might want to take a look at. What I have not been able to find is pre and
post mite numbers before and using a fogger for treatment"

Without starting yet another long (windy) discussion on one versus the other I have removed
fogging as a way forward. When needed I will be using the thermal vape method with some
work already done on designing my own version - which will be made available on Gumtree.com
- with effectiveness/efficiency numbers.

Cheers.

Bill

sc-bee · « **Reply #16 on:** August 24, 2017, 08:18:22 pm »

Quote from: Fishing-Nut on August 24, 2017, 04:10:07 pm

Folks, yesterday I went and got into the hives. I studied frame after frame full of bees and couldn't spot one single varroa mite. I know that's a good thing but does it say anything about the mite problem that I may (or may not) have?

It tells you nothing except... you did not see any

Barhopper · « **Reply #17 on:** August 24, 2017, 09:50:34 pm »

People don't seem to want to post drop numbers using the fogger method. Lots of people trying it but no one reporting numbers.I've done OAV for three years and I can tell you it does work. Just got a ProVap that I'm itching to try.

sc-bee · « **Reply #18 on:** August 25, 2017, 12:30:37 am »

Quote from: Barhopper on August 24, 2017, 09:50:34 pm

People don't seem to want to post drop numbers using the fogger method. Lots of people trying it but no one reporting numbers.I've done OAV for three years and I can tell you it does work. Just got a ProVap that I'm itching to try.

Because they probably don't know...

I would like to get a provap but I may wait on the Oliver shop towel report...

little john · « **Reply #19 on:** August 25, 2017, 04:27:07 am »

A simple observation of the number of dead mites resulting from treatment is flawed, as the number will be a function BOTH of the efficiency of the treatment used, AND the initial severity of infestation. So, one can obviously be confused with the other - and, in addition - the counting of dead mites says absolutely NOTHING about how many live mites remain - which is arguably what you really ought to be concerned with ...

A far better approach would be to assess the level of infestation BEFORE treatment, using either the sugar-roll or alcohol methods, THEN treat, and THEN re-assess a sample of remaining bees, using exactly the same assay method.

But realistically, is anyone really going to adopt such a procedure for EVERY hive, on EVERY occasion ? I doubt it.

LJ