BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER > COLONY COLLAPSE DISORDER - TALKS & REPORTS

neonic's tied to immune system response

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tomofreno:
Neonic's were shown to affect immune response:

http://ecowatch.com/2013/10/24/key-molecule-links-neonicoinoids-to-bee-viruses/

rwlaw:
Thanks for the post, and yet another link to neonics being as being a nasty insecticide!
And the big two will say the usual blather like, we cannot find a connection tied to bee deaths and our product. And the EPA believes them, and the soiling of the big blue marble goes on.

D Coates:
Of course it's nasty.  It's designed to kill.  However, it's less nasty than the insecticides that proceeded it.  Until the bee deaths can be replicated in a scientifically accepted manner that directly links them to products "the big two" produce they are well with within their right to claim innocence.  Innocent until proven guilty right?

If it was so easy to prove what you believe environmental lawyers would have them eaten them alive in court correct?  All types of claims are made but until they are established, replicated, and direct links shown it's not fact.

tjc1:
Well, that sure looked like some pretty real science to me... Yes, innocence is assumed generally speaking and rightly so, but I don't accept that without reservation or condition - especially when the evidence builds up that you are only innocent because you haven't been caught out yet, and are blowing smoke  - or using your lawyers - to cover yourself... At some point you have to consider whether the 'innocent' party is trustworthy and how much more rope you're going to give them without at least putting on some brakes before irreparable harm is done. This is the approach the European countries have taken in the face of the mounting evidence.

D Coates:
Europe is also "guilty until proven innocent."  What many in the US who have this axe to grind have resorted to (because they can't prove the claims) is trying to shift public perception.  It's the shift of public perception and the guilty until proven innocent mindset that got the product(s) banned (exploratory) for 2 years.  Imagine you or your company being on the whipping end of that stick.  Proving a negative..., good luck with keeping your business doors open with that.  You'll go broke trying to disproving claims that your enemies keep leveling.  That is the real goal of many anti-neonic folks.  Put "Big Ag" out of business.  Truth is secondary to tertiary in this nasty scenario.

There are teams of top notch high dollar environmental lawyers who would love nothing more than to make billions to bring "Big Ag" down.  Why don't they?  There's no real scientifically accepted, repeatable proof of the claims.  There are plenty who are trying to find evidence but until they do so in a scientifically accepted and repeatable fashion "innocent until proven guilty" carries the day.

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