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Author Topic: One reason how honey becomes contaminated with sugar  (Read 4089 times)

Offline Duane

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One reason how honey becomes contaminated with sugar
« on: July 24, 2018, 12:48:01 pm »
I read that a good portion of honey is adulterated with sugar.  First thought is that there's a lot of dishonest people out there.  But maybe something else is happening.

I'm against feeding my bees sugar water.  However, I'm against my bees starving to death.  It's very sad seeing their heads stuck in a cell slurping up the last bit of honey before perishing.

So I have to feed them so they can make it through the winter.  But some don't make it for whatever reason.  I thought one hive was alive because there was lots of activity this spring.  They were being cleaned out.  This summer, my biggest hive picks on my little hives.  If I hadn't been paying attention, I would see my little hive using up all their sugar water I fed them, but my big hive is bringing in the nectar!

So while there is the issue of dishonest people mixing sugar water or corn syrup with honey, and there is the issue of people turning sugar water into "honey" by feeding it to the bees and then selling it, and there is the issue of ignorant people not getting their supers off on time or understanding they need to, there is another issue that can be happening.  Suppose one is very cautious about feeding sugar water at only certain times.  However, if they have multiple hives, start nucs and feed them, then a hive or nuc dies, what happens to the sugar water?  And even if that doesn't happen, do bees never move sugar water out of their brood boxes?  What happens when the beekeeper swaps brood boxes in the spring and adds a super on top all without any additional feeding?  Do bees never move any around?  I think they do, at least under certain conditions.

And then there's the situation where a beekeeper feeds no sugar water, but his neighbor feeds, feeds, feeds.  What if his hive dies, where does that sugar water go?

The best policy is never to feed, then there's no contamination.  Or feed early so that it's all used up by the time nectar starts coming in.  But I think that would be impossible to calculate for every year.

Offline iddee

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Re: One reason how honey becomes contaminated with sugar
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2018, 01:13:56 pm »
Think about this.

If sugar is added to honey, it can be found by lab tests, but if bees process sugar water into honey, through their bodies, can it be found in the lab? Or is it then real honey?
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline Duane

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Re: One reason how honey becomes contaminated with sugar
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2018, 01:59:17 pm »
I thought I had understood just because bees process it, it could be detected in the lab.  Something to do with Carbon 14 isotope ratios.  C3 vs. C4 plants.

Van, Arkansas, USA

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Re: One reason how honey becomes contaminated with sugar
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2018, 02:25:05 pm »
A simple test for Honey purity: place Honey on a cotton ball, it will burn if it is pure honey.  Sugar water will not burn on a cotton ball.

Offline Acebird

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Re: One reason how honey becomes contaminated with sugar
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2018, 05:32:27 pm »
If you actually had a hive with honey and fed the bees to where they were storing it you can tell the difference between sugar honey and real honey in most cases.  Most honey's are yellow or even brown in color.  Sugar honey is clear.
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Offline Duane

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Re: One reason how honey becomes contaminated with sugar
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2018, 06:24:50 pm »
I would think you could tell the difference of 100% of each.  But we're talking about mixed.  And I think the article said something about 1-2%.  Can you tell the difference between 1-2% sugar water mixed in with brown honey?  And as far as honey colors go, I just read in the thread about "Honey consumer's needs" where Van prefers honey color scale of 10.  I'm not familiar with honey scales, but I would think it would be very hard to tell the difference of sugar water with the scale 10, when 30 is clover honey and to me that's pretty "clear".

And I'm not sure it would be a good thing that if word gets around that "clear" honey means sugar water, people will blindly think all clover honeys are too clear. 

Also with the cotton ball, doesn't seem to be a sure test, especially if it's mixed.  That is, at what sugar percentage will it not burn?
In fact, https://manukahoneyusa.com/are-you-using-real-honey/
Quote
Another misconception is the flammability of pure honey. One method suggests dipping a cotton ball into the honey and then applying a match. If the honey burns, it is pure. This is another myth, though, as its ?burnability? seems to rely more on the amount of honey being used and/or how long the flame was being applied to the cotton ball versus the actual purity of the honey.

But if there even was a test for 1-2% sugar water vs. pure honey, if you test your honey and found it did have sugar water, then your done for the year.  My statement had to do with preventing, not testing for it.  To test and found you can't sell your honey is no good.  You want to know how to prevent sugar from entering your honey, from you yourself feeding your own bees.  I'm suggesting, if you feed, and feed at proper times, you can reduce, but not eliminate contamination.  A hive dies early flow, and you're contaminated.

Offline iddee

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Re: One reason how honey becomes contaminated with sugar
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2018, 06:51:28 pm »
First, sugar water may be clear, but sugar water honey is not. It is mixed with other things, including enzymes from the bee's bodies.

Secondly, no honey is 100% pure, as bees collect honey dew, sap, such as maple, and remnants of soda cans and candies left by humans.
I wouldn't worry about a tiny bit of contaminants, but just be as careful as I could and let it go at that.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Van, Arkansas, USA

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Re: One reason how honey becomes contaminated with sugar
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2018, 07:47:38 pm »
Duane posses a good question, in a word QUALITY.

So, I do not have an answer to the following:

IF a bee digested sugar water into fructose and glucose and stored this in a comb,, how could one know for honey is made of fructose and glucose.

Now IF a bee did not digest the sugar water that can be tested and would fail within percentage range.  If 100% sugar water in the comb this would be easy to detect by many methods.  Get confusing though if the sugar water was 10% mixed in the honey.

A little bit of detail, pure sugar is composed of glucose and fructose.  When bees digest sugar this is called inverting the sugar and the sugar is broken down to glucose and fructose which are smaller particles.

Sugar is too large a particle to be absorbed into the intestines of bees or humans for that matter.  So bees just as humans, must break down the sugar into glucose and fructose, then it can be absorbed by the intestines.

Boiling sugar water at 234 degrees Fahrenheit also breaks down sugar into glucose and fructose.  Bees use an enzyme called invertase to invert {digest} sugar into the smaller particles fructose and glucose.

Japanese scientists were the first to mass produce invertase.  The invertase is used to break down sugar into glucose which some of it ends up in those IV bags the hospitals place in a persons veins.  The left over fructose can be used as sweetness in cereals or whatever

One last note, I mentioned a color scale for Honey in another thread: the scale is from 10 to 90.  Ninety is buckwheat honey, almost black, 10 is very light but definitely yellow.  Ten is sometimes called white honey although the Honey has a yellow tent but is smooth and sweet as anything on this planet.  Mix this honey, really most Honey, with butter and folks cannot resist.
Blessings

Look at pics of acacia Honey on Amazon or google and you will see what I am talking about, color 10.

Offline Acebird

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Re: One reason how honey becomes contaminated with sugar
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2018, 08:44:23 pm »
I don't want to point one to the other site but Lauri on the other site has many many photos of her work.  She demonstrates the difference between sugar water and capped honey in a frame.  I cannot find a queen on a frame but I can surely see the difference.  So it is blaring.
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Offline paus

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Re: One reason how honey becomes contaminated with sugar
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2018, 09:17:27 pm »
I was in South America talking with a beek and he showed me a trick to tell if honey is pure.  He took a strike anywhere match dipped in honey and it still lit right off but it did not in a syrup that  he also sold. Don't know what the syrup was. I have tried this a few times so far he was right, this may something to play with.

Van, Arkansas, USA

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Re: One reason how honey becomes contaminated with sugar
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2018, 10:07:14 am »
My point was a percentage of sugar water.  Yes, 100% would be easy to detect, but what about say 5 or 10% sugar water and 95% or 90 percent honey??

As I stated I do not know at these low percentage if the sugar could be detected by normal means such as solubility test, flame test, sticky test.

In a laboratory yes, one could tell, but how much Honey is lab tested for percentage sugar water,,, not much.
Blessings

Offline Hops Brewster

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Re: One reason how honey becomes contaminated with sugar
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2018, 10:47:44 am »
Unless a beek has total control over all the acreage (18,000 +) that his/her bees forage, he/she can't control whether there is any manufactured sugar in his honey.  For the vast majority of beekeepers there are many sources of manufactured sugar for the bees to find.  Particularly in times of dearth.  You can't honestly claim your honey is 'organic' unless you control that acreage, either!

There could be traces of soda taken from neighborhood trash cans or even picnics.  It could be lollipops that children drop on the sidewalk, hummingbird feeders or the ignorant beek down the street.  Whatever the source, there will be traces of sugar in your honey, varying by degree.  Various pesticides and other chemicals, too.   There are also natural non-nectar sources, such as honey dew from aphids, etc.  Do you want to guarantee the 100% purity of your honey?  Gain control of the acreage first.  Even then, sugar happens.
 
The best position to work from is to practice wise feeding management protocols in your own hives.  Stop spending so much time worrying about those things you can not control.!   You only have control over your own practices.  Only feed if/when they need it.  Dye your feed, so that you can see it in the cells.  Talk with your beek neighbors, trying to get a cooperative agreement.  In short, manage your hives, let the others manage, or mismanage, their own.

MYOB gets the best results.
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Offline Duane

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Re: One reason how honey becomes contaminated with sugar
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2018, 11:16:50 am »
What Van said is what I've been trying to say.  Sure, it's easy to tell the difference between night and day, but what about degrees in between?  If there's 5% sugar water mixed (by the bees) in honey with a scale color of 10, would you know it by look or flame tests?

And sure, "tiny bits" of sugar water, maybe that doesn't matter.  To me, it would if I was paying top dollar, but maybe not to others.  However, we're not talking about a certain amount.  We're talking about an unknown amount.  Actually, we're talking about how to prevent it.  But how do you recognize if it happened?

I have noticed that bees store like pollen in specific cells.  But do they store specific nectar or sugar sources in specific cells?  It's been my observation that they put a little bit of their nectar in many cells.  I would assume that allows drying efficiency.  Then maybe they move it to fill certain cells.  I just think a number of things are going on.  And if you have dark honey and the bees mix 5% sugar water with it, would you know?  And what would you do if you were getting ready to extract and notice in a few of your frames there was a small area of clearer honey?


And yes, as Hops said, manage your own hives.  But that's what I'm talking about, even your own, when a hive dies, that sugar water goes somewhere.  And what does 5% died sugar water mixed in with dark honey look like?

Maybe there's nothing that can be done, but as I said, that is one reason how honey becomes contaminated with sugar.

Offline Acebird

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Re: One reason how honey becomes contaminated with sugar
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2018, 12:47:41 pm »
Duane, there is one thing to keep in mind.  If a very small percentage of sugar gets into your honey unintentional then your customer will not be able to tell either.  Sugar is not toxic to humans so don't sweat it if you are managing your hives with care.
For dead outs do not allow robbing.  Use the frames of honey in a dead out for feed for your other bees so it gets consumed.  Do not feed with honey supers on and that is about the best you can do.
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Van, Arkansas, USA

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Re: One reason how honey becomes contaminated with sugar
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2018, 02:20:53 pm »
I did a flame test and ten percent 2X sugar failed.

I took 0.90 ml of pure honey added 0.1 ml of Mann lake prosweet which is 2X with oils.  Mixed throughly as the solution is thick.

I took 2 cotton balls like the ones you buy at the pharmacy and add a few drops of pure honey to one cotton ball and the same for the 90 percent honey.

The 90 percent honey self extinguished whereas the pure Honey was a blazing as if I added lighter fluid.

The solubility test was a wash, I could not tell the difference.  This test is simple: drop a drop of Honey in a glass of water,  pure honey will puddle, dilute honey will dissolve.  There was a slight difference but my eyes are not as good as they used to be.

The flame test was a no brainer, clearly a big difference between 90% verses 100%.  BTW cotton burning with honey smelled like cotton candy.

Conclusion: flame test will easily detect dilute honey of 10%.
Blessings

Read Hops post #11, makes a lot of sense.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2018, 02:47:33 pm by Van, Arkansas, USA »

Offline JackM

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Re: One reason how honey becomes contaminated with sugar
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2018, 09:12:33 am »
Unless a beek has total control over all the acreage (18,000 +) that his/her bees forage, he/she can't control whether there is any manufactured sugar in his honey.  For the vast majority of beekeepers there are many sources of manufactured sugar for the bees to find.  Particularly in times of dearth.  You can't honestly claim your honey is 'organic' unless you control that acreage, either!

There could be traces of soda taken from neighborhood trash cans or even picnics.  It could be lollipops that children drop on the sidewalk, hummingbird feeders or the ignorant beek down the street.  Whatever the source, there will be traces of sugar in your honey, varying by degree.  Various pesticides and other chemicals, too.   There are also natural non-nectar sources, such as honey dew from aphids, etc.  Do you want to guarantee the 100% purity of your honey?  Gain control of the acreage first.  Even then, sugar happens.
 
The best position to work from is to practice wise feeding management protocols in your own hives.  Stop spending so much time worrying about those things you can not control.!   You only have control over your own practices.  Only feed if/when they need it.  Dye your feed, so that you can see it in the cells.  Talk with your beek neighbors, trying to get a cooperative agreement.  In short, manage your hives, let the others manage, or mismanage, their own.

MYOB gets the best results.
EXACTLY
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Offline Hops Brewster

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Re: One reason how honey becomes contaminated with sugar
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2018, 10:29:19 am »
and lest we forget;  fundamentally, honey IS sugar.
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Offline Duane

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Re: One reason how honey becomes contaminated with sugar
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2018, 10:42:03 am »
Isn't it more accurate to say honey is A sugar?

Offline Duane

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Re: One reason how honey becomes contaminated with sugar
« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2018, 10:43:33 am »
Van, would you mind trying 5% and 1% flame test?

Offline paus

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Re: One reason how honey becomes contaminated with sugar
« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2018, 10:46:09 am »
What is the flame test?