Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum
BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => GENERAL BEEKEEPING - MAIN POSTING FORUM. => Topic started by: CoolBees on July 11, 2019, 03:26:21 pm
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Your advice is needed. I was in a hurry. Did I do it right(ish)?
Soon after I put the screen on, they started robbing the nuc below. So I added a 2nd screen.
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More pics ...
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Here's the backstory: I've lost 9 out of 10 nuc split attempts this year. Finally built some Altmiller screens. This is H10 being split 4 ways on 6-30-19. As of 7-8-19 inspection, 3 splits had multiple QC's, and the queen is in the 3rd split up (entrance for the queenright nuc & bottom nuc not shown as entrances are facing opposite direction).
Walked out this morning and observed robbing going full steam. In the sun's morning light, I could track the bees coming out of H3 in a steady stream heading straight to me at H10. Grabbed the Air Stapler and some window screen and went to work. Not a fancy job, but hopefully it fixes the problem.
Any thoughts or comments you have are welcome ... hopefully I got it right.
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Also note: H5 is shown to the left - 2 boxes sitting directly beside H10. H5 has had robbing going on for some time (3 weeks or so). I downsized H5 (previously) from 5 boxes down to 2 - redistributed stores to other hives, and reduced it's entrance to create a high density of bees while H5 recovers from high mite counts and treatments. Bees are still trying to rob H5, but 30 plus guards are keeping the situation stable there .... so the robbers have turned on H10 now.
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Alan,
The idea of robbing screens is to put the screen in front of the entrance so that the smell of the hive draws the robbers to the screen and the occupants have to find their way out on the side or top. When they leave, they know how they got out and find their way back in.
It looks good as long as there is a way out. The bees in the field when you place it will bee confused but will eventually figure it out.
Jim Altmiller
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Alan,
The idea of robbing screens is to put the screen in front of the entrance so that the smell of the hive draws the robbers to the screen and the occupants have to find their way out on the side or top. When they leave, they know how they got out and find their way back in.
It looks good as long as there is a way out. The bees in the field when you place it will bee confused but will eventually figure it out.
Jim Altmiller
Thanks Jim. I'm slowly figuring all this out. :grin:
Thats what I did - the entrance for these screens is at the bottom. Not sure if you can see it in the pics. Initially I wanted the entrance at the top - but the screen layed in better entrance down - and I was in a hurry ... I REALLY want these queens to survive!
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I make robbing screens much smaller.
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Check this one out. It's cheap, easy, and effective.
https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/index.php/topic,1420.msg44188/topicseen.html#msg44188
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Check this one out. It's cheap, easy, and effective.
https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/index.php/topic,1420.msg44188/topicseen.html#msg44188
iddee, do you have a picture to go along with that description?
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Quoting Alan
''I've lost 9 out of 10 nuc split attempts this year.''
Sorry for your results Alan. For educational purposes, Would you mind starting a new topic? Perhaps will you tell us more about how you made you splits, what size boxes you used. Mated queen, queen cells, virgins, frames with eggs? Did you feed? How many frames of brood, eggs, honey, etc. May save some of newer folks some grief if you can elaborate, by giving us some careful details of your hard work. Again sorry that you have had this disappointment.
PS This is not to be critical but for educational purposes. Thanks, Phillip
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Check this one out. It's cheap, easy, and effective.
https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/index.php/topic,1420.msg44188/topicseen.html#msg44188
iddee, do you have a picture to go along with that description?
Go to that page and scroll to the top. There is several pics and directions to make it.
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Check this one out. It's cheap, easy, and effective.
https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/index.php/topic,1420.msg44188/topicseen.html#msg44188
iddee, do you have a picture to go along with that description?
Go to that page and scroll to the top. There is several pics and directions to make it.
Thanks Cao
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Quoting Alan
''I've lost 9 out of 10 nuc split attempts this year.''
Sorry for your results Alan. For educational purposes, Would you mind starting a new topic? Perhaps will you tell us more about how you made you splits, what size boxes you used. Mated queen, queen cells, virgins, frames with eggs? Did you feed? How many frames of brood, eggs, honey, etc. May save some of newer folks some grief if you can elaborate, by giving us some careful details of your hard work. Again sorry that you have had this disappointment.
PS This is not to be critical but for educational purposes. Thanks, Phillip
Yes Phillip - I have kept records of everything - and intend to share them as individual stories when it's done - IF it works - but ran into a "snag" (robbing - again) along the way, so had to post. ... because I needed help.
Time will tell - I think you know, based on my posts, what I'm trying to accomplish (as do a few others). .... but I can't get there without queens ... and this IS H10 I'm talking about ... :angry:
The rest of the story I will happily provide this wonderful community (would that Paul Harvey were at my side) after success has been achieved ... otherwise, it's a story of ... nothing.
Humbly ...
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Quoting Alan
''I've lost 9 out of 10 nuc split attempts this year.''
Sorry for your results Alan. For educational purposes, Would you mind starting a new topic? Perhaps will you tell us more about how you made you splits, what size boxes you used. Mated queen, queen cells, virgins, frames with eggs? Did you feed? How many frames of brood, eggs, honey, etc. May save some of newer folks some grief if you can elaborate, by giving us some careful details of your hard work. Again sorry that you have had this disappointment.
PS This is not to be critical but for educational purposes. Thanks, Phillip
Yes Phillip - I have kept records of everything - and intend to share them as individual stories when it's done - IF it works - but ran into a "snag" (robbing - again) along the way, so had to post. ... because I needed help.
Time will tell - I think you know, based on my posts, what I'm trying to accomplish (as do a few others). .... but I can't get there without queens ... and this IS H10 I'm talking about ... :angry:
The rest of the story I will happily provide this wonderful community (would that Paul Harvey were at my side) after success has been achieved ... otherwise, it's a story of ... nothing.
Humbly ...
I feel sure that you will achieve your goals as long as you keep trying and have that bull dog hang on stubbornness. Wishing you the best! My earlier splits worked out pretty well. I am in the process of another round. I tried the nicot system and I failed at that but it was my fault and not fault of he system.
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Thanks all - Iddee I like your screens. Is there anywhere to buy them? I don't want to make them right now.
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An update - everything seems calm this morning. Screens seem to be working. Pollen coming in. ... I have queens hatching on the 15th - possibly earlier. I need to open up and check the damage this afternoon - maybe add some brood to boost the population after the fighting in 1 (or more) of the nucs ... I want to get in there before they hatch so I can leave them alone for 2-3 weeks as the queens get settled.
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Cool,
I use these. https://www.mannlakeltd.com/10-frame-moving-robbing-screen
I put them on nucs and splits the same day they are created.
Best of luck.
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A bit cheaper here, J, but you could make about 3 dozen of mine for the price of one of those.
https://beezneedz.com/product/8-fr-robbing-screen/
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Other than observing the behavior, is there a way to tell when to put the screens on?
Or do you just put them on to make sure you are not late?
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Good question ^^^^. I?d like to know as well.
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It is a good idea to use them during dearth?s on nucs and small hives. That is when most robbing will occur.
Jim Altmiller
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Cao, I went back and scrolled up and found those pictures.
A question to you experienced keepers which use this. Will using regular door screening instead of 1/8 inch hardware cloth, detour hive beetles form entering the hive as well, or will they finally find their way in the entrance hole as the home bees? My guess is they will find their way in.
Phillip
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They are a good prevention, as well as a cure, so they can be used either way
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They are a good prevention, as well as a cure, so they can be used either way
Other than observing the behavior, is there a way to tell when to put the screens on?
Or do you just put them on to make sure you are not late?
Cao, I went back and scrolled up and found those pictures.
A question to you experienced keepers which use this. Will using regular door screening instead of 1/8 inch hardware cloth, detour hive beetles form entering the hive as well, or will they finally find their way in the entrance hole as the home bees? My guess is they will find their way in.
Phillip
Is you answer here for both above questions about your robbing screen, or one or the other? Please clarify.
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Screen may be seen as a wall, where 1/8 is seen as a fence. Bees may find the entrance if seen as a wall. As for SHB, most are using 1/8 screen bottoms, so the SHB will enter there. I use 1/8 because it prevents robbing and makes moving easy. I use other forms of SHB control.
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Thank you Jvalentour & Iddee for the recommendations.
I have a short rant - My one complaint about online shopping, is the lack of description on function, and the lack of photo's that allow for understanding of function - specifically for us "new folks". Mannlake is really bad about it - imho - their photos and descriptions are targeted for the expert who "already knows" ... which makes no sense (to me), because those people are far more likely to "make their own" because of their knowledge. Whereas, us beginner types would often rather buy the solution if we understood it. Since we don't understand, and they don't give enough explanation, we/I are/am pushed away from a purchase more often than not. ... rant finished. :grin:
Unfortunately my schedule is busy enough, that I'd rather buy a working solution (if i understand it) for now, than struggle thru the learning curve to save money. Thanks all for the help with this. I think I've got it now.
I'll pick some up - hopefully that will help with Splits/Nucs success rates in the future.
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I think window screen might work. I use it on my upper vents and when there is robbing issues they are covered with bees. Not sure how much it would help with hive beetles but probably a little. Might be worth a try especially if you don't have any 1/8 hardware cloth.
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I think window screen might work. I use it on my upper vents and when there is robbing issues they are covered with bees. Not sure how much it would help with hive beetles but probably a little. Might be worth a try especially if you don't have any 1/8 hardware cloth.
Thanks Ed. I have the 1/8 but was thinking out side the box. Was wondering, why not just use window screen as Small Hive Beetles can access the 1/8? Window screen is Cheaper and may serve a two fold purpose? Appreciate you Ed
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Fwiw - the reason I used window screen ... 'cause that's all I had in a hurry. :grin: :cheesy:
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Fwiw - the reason I used window screen ... 'cause that's all I had in a hurry. :grin: :cheesy:
Haa haa I like it Alan.... That was funny, 😄 !! But Practical!! Hats 🎩 off to you Sir!
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Cool,
I don't think window screen will hurt or help anything. It will decrease circulation in the hive.
As far as SHB, they enter the hive from any opening, cracks, AO holes, uneven boxes, knot holes, etc. Keeping your hives really strong is the best deterrent for SHB.
IMO putting the robber screen on when you make the split is the best way to go. This time of year make your splits/nucs strong. I spent the weekend making splits, the week before was getting equipment ready which included robber screens on the nucs. (I elected to try eliminating the lower entrance of the nucs and drilled a 1" hole entrance when I ran out of robber screens).
The robber screens are also nice moving screens, smoke them in just before dark, close the entrance and make the move, then reopen the entrance. I use the nearest branch with a bungy cord to distract them when they exit the new location. If I'm in a hurry I'll lean a bottom board or 2x4 at the entrance to make them pause, (yesterday I used rope in front of the nucs with the 1" entrance). Moving the hives is more traumatic for the beekeep than the bees.
Robber screens will not prevent mice infestation, remove them late fall and put on your mouse screens or what ever you use for mice.
Time is an issue for me as I don't live near my hives. Fast easy and cheap is how I manage my hives. Like you as a beginner I purchased a lot of equipment to try it out, if it was worth duplicating I did so, if not I purchased or moved on.
The BeezNeedz product does seem superior to the Mann Lake product, when I get some spare change I'll pick up a few.
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Other than observing the behavior, is there a way to tell when to put the screens on?
Or do you just put them on to make sure you are not late?
Good question ^^^^. I?d like to know as well.
Incognito/Nock ... sorry I didn't answer this earlier. To tell the truth, I've been trying to figure out the answer to that question too.
Here's what I've figured out so far ... at my location, I have to put robbing screens on every smaller hive, or they will get robbed out completely in short order. Case-in-point - I had a double nuc (about 2 months old queen) get robbed out in 1 day. I never saw it happen. 1 afternoon everything was fine. The next afternoon I saw a lot of wax particles on the landing board. Opened the hive - empty, ripped apart. No stores.
So now, I've started placing screens on every small hive/nuc. That seems to be working. Every location is different - but that's what I have to do.
Hope this helps.
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Based on replies to this topic I have not put on a robbing screen.
As of last week, all of the colonies seem to be doing fine with no signs of confrontation on the outside of the hives. Stores are all intact and slowly increasing inside the hives. I am assuming that there is just enough nectar nearby so that robbing is not necessary.
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Based on replies to this topic I have not put on a robbing screen.
As of last week, all of the colonies seem to be doing fine with no signs of confrontation on the outside of the hives. Stores are all intact and slowly increasing inside the hives. I am assuming that there is just enough nectar nearby so that robbing is not necessary.
Tom, I am glad to hear all is running smooth for you. I hope your son is still as enthusiastic about the bees as are you! It is a special thing to have such a basic fellowship between you two as provided by nature, to be shared. A gift to you and your son from God above. Cherish the times.
PS Watch those ticks! :grin:
Phillip