Swarm die off

[Occam]

Unfortunately Saturday I had the unfortunate experience of cleaning out the hive I put the swarm in that I caught the previous Saturday. There had been bearding around the side and entrance for the days leading up to die off. Thursday had no bearding and little activity near the entrance, Friday afternoon had no activity. Hundreds, probably a couple thousand, dead bees on the ground around the hive.

Saturday morning I opened to inspect realizing something was definitely wrong and that the bees were dead or absconded. Of the 5 frames I'd put in were mostly foundationless with starter strips and two had foundation but no drawn comb. They started drawing out a little comb on one of the foundations but not much, I saw it on Tuesday when I'd opened the hive.

I combed through putting the bees into a dust pan 4-5 at a time looking for the queen but never found her. All the bees I looked at had their tongues out. I'll add some pictures below.

Open to opinions on what may have happened.

[Occam]

In the debris at the bottom I found a bunch of (I believe) was scales

[Kathyp]

Are you sure they were bearding and not defending?  Was there a food source blooming or provided?  Had they put any stores in at all?  How are your other hives?

[Occam]

They were never defensive acting, at least not to me. I never saw any signs of bees fighting and they really had no resources to defend. Flow is still happening, I didn't feed anything. My other hive is still doing well, still bringing pollen and nectar in

[Kathyp]

Flow is still happening, I didn't feed anything. My other hive is still doing well, still bringing pollen and nectar in

Several things could have happened.  The queen might have been lost at some point, either injured or did not make it into the hive.  Within a weeks time, they should have found food, and poisoning is not likely since your other hives are OK unless they were poisoned before you picked them up.  Any few stores they might have had would have been cleaned out quickly as the hive died/left.

I have had swarms and cutouts that were poisoned.  People swear they didn't do anything to the swarm or hive and I find out they were sprayed, or in one case, seven dust had been shaken into the wall onto the hive I was to remove.  Walked away from that one.

You'll probably never know, but since it was that one hive and the others are OK, it's probably nothing to worry about.

I do feed when I pick up a swarm because it takes them some time to do orientation flights and find food.  I give them a couple of days of feeding to anchor them to the hive and give them a boost BUT it can cause robbing if you have your swarm catch close to your other bees so you have to watch for that.

[BeeMaster2]

I had one guy call me about a swarm on his fence that said that he did not spray them. When I got there I found that he had set fire to them and the neighbors fence and almost burned the neighborhood down. The fire came very close to getting out of control. His neighbor put the fire out. Surprisingly a lot of the swarm survived. I even found a second clump of bees with its own virgin queen. They came from a large pine tree with a hollow section 20 feet from the fence.
I put them in separate Nuc boxes. They were fine until a swarm came and usurped first one and then the other and then left my apiary.

[The15thMember]

Several things could have happened.  The queen might have been lost at some point, either injured or did not make it into the hive. Within a weeks time, they should have found food, and poisoning is not likely since your other hives are OK unless they were poisoned before you picked them up.  Any few stores they might have had would have been cleaned out quickly as the hive died/left.

I find it suspicious that the hive wasn't drawing comb, and swarms are usually keen to draw comb.  Queenless hives often won't draw, so a missing queen was my first thought.  Tongues out can be a sign of starvation, and if they didn't have any stores some bees may have starved.  I also think a poisoning event once they reached your yard seems unlikely given the circumstances. 

[Occam]

I do feed when I pick up a swarm because it takes them some time to do orientation flights and find food.  I give them a couple of days of feeding to anchor them to the hive and give them a boost BUT it can cause robbing if you have your swarm catch close to your other bees so you have to watch for that.

I'll keep that in mind next time. With the long lang hive and only having a few frames I could probably put a jar type feeder inside on the other side of the follower board. Or a frame feeder I suppose.

I had one guy call me about a swarm on his fence that said that he did not spray them. When I got there I found that he had set fire to them and the neighbors fence and almost burned the neighborhood down. The fire came very close to getting out of control. His neighbor put the fire out. Surprisingly a lot of the swarm survived. I even found a second clump of bees with its own virgin queen. They came from a large pine tree with a hollow section 20 feet from the fence.
I put them in separate Nuc boxes. They were fine until a swarm came and usurped first one and then the other and then left my apiary.

I guess anything is possible, this swarm was 15 feet up in a tree

Thank for the input y'all

[Ben Framed]

Unfortunately Saturday I had the unfortunate experience of cleaning out the hive I put the swarm in that I caught the previous Saturday. There had been bearding around the side and entrance for the days leading up to die off. Thursday had no bearding and little activity near the entrance, Friday afternoon had no activity. Hundreds, probably a couple thousand, dead bees on the ground around the hive.

Saturday morning I opened to inspect realizing something was definitely wrong and that the bees were dead or absconded. Of the 5 frames I'd put in were mostly foundationless with starter strips and two had foundation but no drawn comb. They started drawing out a little comb on one of the foundations but not much, I saw it on Tuesday when I'd opened the hive.

I combed through putting the bees into a dust pan 4-5 at a time looking for the queen but never found her. All the bees I looked at had their tongues out. I'll add some pictures below.

Open to opinions on what may have happened.

It's been my experience that a recovered swarm will be surprisingly aggressive in building comb. What I have also discovered in a Spring swarm (a time of flow). the queen will go right into laying even though the comb may not be completely drawn out. It doesn't take long for the hive to be set up in housekeeping, (in other words, to become a thriving hive). I do not remember how long you told us you have been keeping bees but you might have already learned this as well; Which makes this situation a little different from any of my experiences as far as a new swarm is concerned. 

As Kathy and Reagan said, starvation sounds like a possible culprit. But since the bees were in a swarm and should have plenty of honey with them, and since there should have been be a good flow going in your area, I am reluctantly drawing away from that theory, though I am not doing so with ease. Before we completely draw away from starvation I will ask, where there bees with their heads stuck in the comb that they had drawn?

I have had, I think it was three colonies poisoned by my neighbors spraying his pear tree some time ago, and all at the same time. These hives were with other hives that apparently did not visit the tree, getting nectar and pollen from other sources because they were not affected. In the poisoning case, the bees were shaking, seems disoriented, and died similar to those in your picture. Was your bees shaking or could it be the damage was already done by the time you noticed this? You might find this following article interesting.

https://honestbeekeeper.com/why-are-there-dead-bees-with-their-tongues-sticking-out/

Another theory; Do you think there is a possibility that this hive might have been an abscond instead of a swarm? Is it possible that the bees as a colony were already sick 'or' left their home for another reason?  Bees will abscond for several reasons, usually pest is a major culprit..
For instance an abscond due to SHB will leave the queen behind many times and since you found no queen........

Adding; I do not know if an abscond under this situation will carry enough stores with them to do much good since the honey is usually not fit for bees when they decide to take off. Which would also justify a theory of possible starvation in the middle of a flow as well as considering no queen.. I realize this is really reaching. Maybe someone else has more concrete theories to add. Or even better, a solid answer?

Phillip

 



 

[Occam]

Ii did not find any in the comb but none of the comb was deep yetbarely a couple mm and I doubt the bees would have been able to for more than their heads in. I too expected fairly aggressive build up which is one thing that surprised me about the situation

[The15thMember]

Adding; I do not know if an abscond under this situation will carry enough stores with them to do much good since the honey is usually not fit for bees when they decide to take off. Which would also justify a theory of possible starvation in the middle of a flow as well as considering no queen.. I realize this is really reaching. Maybe someone else has more concrete theories to add. Or even better, a solid answer?

Phillip makes a good point here.  If the swarm wasn't a swarm at all, but an abscond, who knows what sort of troubles they brought with them.  But as we've all been saying, a "swarm" that doesn't draw definitely has some sort of problem.