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Author Topic: Snow covered hives  (Read 2631 times)

Offline jalentour

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Snow covered hives
« on: January 15, 2019, 11:07:04 am »
It's been awhile since I have seen this topic, so long I forget the answer.
My hives are covered with snow, lower entrances completely covered and in some cases upper entrances are covered as well.  The temperature in this area will be 10-30 degrees for the next few days. 

At what point do I need to clear the entrances?  I know they need to get out to defecate, but, will they do so with the outside temps so low? 

Is there a general rule of thumb for snow blocking entrances?

Thanks

Offline robirot

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Re: Snow covered hives
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2019, 11:59:23 am »
General ruule, as long as you can See a hole molten into the snow all is good.
 
Havr a look at Michael Palmer about wintering in YouTube.

Offline Beeboy01

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Re: Snow covered hives
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2019, 12:08:31 pm »
I would at least uncover the top entrances to allow some ventilation which would help remove moisture from the hives. Condensation in a hive is dangerous to the health of the bees, if water drips on the cluster it will chill the bees and kill them. A layer of snow piled up on the hives will also prevent solar warming of the hives during the day. I'm a southern beekeeper so take my advice with a grain of salt. I'm sure some northern beekeepers will help out also.

Offline robirot

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Re: Snow covered hives
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2019, 12:40:05 pm »
It's good that snow prevents solar warming. Snow is mostly trapped air in Walter and insulates quite good. Thanks to that the bees stay in a constant temperature and calm in cluster. Often better then rapid changes in temperatures.

Offline iddee

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Re: Snow covered hives
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2019, 04:31:58 pm »
Stay in the house and leave the bees alone until the temp hits 43 F. Then open an exit for them if still needed.
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Offline TheHoneyPump

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Snow covered hives
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2019, 06:18:48 pm »
Need air.
If you do not see a natural chimney or small funnel (vent) from the hive then expose a small area around bottom entrance and top vent. Do not uncover the hive, leave the snow. Just make sure there is a chimney.  A broom handle works great for poking a hole through the snow to the area of the entrances. Under the snow with no vent they will go bye n bye from asphyxia.  They do not need to get out to fly, but they do need some passive air flow to breath.
When the lid goes back on, the bees will spend the next 3 days undoing most of what the beekeeper just did to them.

Offline iddee

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Re: Snow covered hives
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2019, 06:25:26 pm »
Snow in not air tight, so no vent needed.

Put a colony in a 6000 cubic inch container, "double deep" give them food and temp. control, and tell me how long it takes them to die from lack of oxygen.
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Offline TheHoneyPump

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Snow covered hives
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2019, 07:40:00 pm »
Ventilation is critical.
I have seen too many dead hives from this to  spend cycles debating it. They are your bees, do what you will with them.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2019, 01:35:43 pm by TheHoneyPump »
When the lid goes back on, the bees will spend the next 3 days undoing most of what the beekeeper just did to them.

Offline iddee

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Re: Snow covered hives
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2019, 07:58:12 pm »
So you clear openings so the cold air can get in and you see dead hives. I have never cleaned openings, and I have never had a hive die I thought died from condensation or lack of oxygen.

Sounds about right.
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Offline splitrock

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Re: Snow covered hives
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2019, 07:32:01 am »
Not wanting to get into any debate or argument, but...... snow can and does turn ice coated or to solid from freeze and thaw cycles. Ice wont let much air in.  Also Snow is much easier to remove than ice.

On the other hand, years ago while wrapping the hives up for winter i had a hive that i thought was dead. Being I had 4 on a pallet, and I a line of several pallets side to side' it was left in place. It made what I was doing easier..... Anyway, the 2 deeps they were in were old and had an area that was bad leaving a large hole in one corner. I didn't wrap the hive, close the hole, or reduce the entrance. The only insulation they had was the layers of burlap i had over the top of the group, and the hive faced north. I tarp over about 8 inches of burlap so it stays dry.

We had a normal winter which is usually long brutal up here, well come spring it turned out the hive wasn't dead and had survived.  Since that I am now of the opinion that in our climate, air is more important than warmth, and cold air isn't as hard on em as some think.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Snow covered hives
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2019, 07:58:42 am »
I live in North Mississippi, "The South"  all my life year after year, it seems every winter I hear at least one time, from someone, we need a hard freeze to kill the mosquitoes and insects. I have also noticed while watching a National Geographic movie about water foul, and how and where they migrate and raise their young. Now everyone knows that the biggest majority of migratory waterfowl nest in the cold regions of Canada. The tundra. When these baby ducks, baby geese ETc hatch, what do they eat, how did they survive, well according to National Geographic they survive on mosquitoes!  Obviously the big freeze is a myth here in the south with people thinking a big freeze will kill them.  I know mosquitoes and bees are not the same but they both are insects...
 
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Offline Hops Brewster

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Re: Snow covered hives
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2019, 10:46:40 am »
A healthy winter cluster will keep itself warm in a dry hive.  It's a wet hive that kills them. 
as long as there is adequate drainage in the event of leaks, and if there is adequate ventilation, they won't freeze to death.  We ventilate for moisture control, not so much for oxygen flow.

A bottom entrance only hive is fine, as long as it's not blocked.  but if they only have a bottom entrance and it gets clogged with ice or dead bees, they won't be able to correctly vent the hive of moisture and the potential for the cluster getting wet is greatly increased.  Result, frozen bees.

Some people deal with the moisture by adding quilt boxes.  Others will use small upper entrances.  There are other methods as well.  But keep your hive dry inside.

Winter is coming.

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Offline robirot

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Re: Snow covered hives
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2019, 11:23:47 am »
Wrapping hivea in winter is less about insulation of the hive, but more about protecting the hive from the weather.

If you really wanted to insulate the hive you would usw styrofoam or similar. But with wood there is one problem, it absorbs water, this water has to be driven off in the spring. The bees do that by heating, and that costs lots of energy. With the wrapping, you protect the wood from absorbing water, at least a little bit and specially in spring from reabsorbing.

If you treat your hives in boiling wax, the wood can't absorb water anymore.
Also styrofoam hives win in spring because if that, less because of the insulation. I recommend you, to put a couple thermomethers into your hive in spring, you will wonder how cold all the frames are in which the bees don't breed. They are really genuie in insulating the cluster with there bodies.

With wooden hives only painted or oiled, the the temperature towards the wall if the crowded frames is about 5?C less while the walls are still wet and you can easly See where the cluster is located, from the outside, due to the dry wood stains.

Offline SiWolKe

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Re: Snow covered hives
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2019, 01:18:09 pm »
A healthy winter cluster will keep itself warm in a dry hive.  It's a wet hive that kills them. 
as long as there is adequate drainage in the event of leaks, and if there is adequate ventilation, they won't freeze to death.  We ventilate for moisture control, not so much for oxygen flow.

A bottom entrance only hive is fine, as long as it's not blocked.  but if they only have a bottom entrance and it gets clogged with ice or dead bees, they won't be able to correctly vent the hive of moisture and the potential for the cluster getting wet is greatly increased.  Result, frozen bees.

Some people deal with the moisture by adding quilt boxes.  Others will use small upper entrances.  There are other methods as well.  But keep your hive dry inside.

Exactly.

Offline blackforest beekeeper

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Re: Snow covered hives
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2019, 02:58:47 am »
many beeks in Germany winter with open screened bottom, so snow usually is not problem. Also there will be ventilation in case of blocked entrance by bees.
The beeks using upper entrance is rare, very rare.
I got a compromise: My drawers underneath the screen let some air ciruclation happen. So harsh winds are lessened in force,but ventilation is given. One-brood-box only, not two stories or more.
No plastic foil on top.  A bit of insulation in the inner lid.
No mold, never. No moisture, neither.
The hive-bodies that spend the winter outside I paint with linseed-oil. Works a p...., but I prefer it that way.

Offline SiWolKe

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Re: Snow covered hives
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2019, 12:20:35 pm »
many beeks in Germany winter with open screened bottom, so snow usually is not problem. Also there will be ventilation in case of blocked entrance by bees.
The beeks using upper entrance is rare, very rare.
I got a compromise: My drawers underneath the screen let some air ciruclation happen. So harsh winds are lessened in force,but ventilation is given. One-brood-box only, not two stories or more.
No plastic foil on top.  A bit of insulation in the inner lid.
No mold, never. No moisture, neither.
The hive-bodies that spend the winter outside I paint with linseed-oil. Works a p...., but I prefer it that way.

cool, that?s my configuration too, I use the insulation ventilation lid though. But the floor is more closed so I watch the entrances in winter. So far they were never blocked completely in 4 years, not by snow nor by dead bees.
I use no entrance boards where snow might accumulate. Hives are on bricks 30cm high.
Could be my floor board let?s in some air too. Dadant broodbox is the best, no gap between broodnests, high enough to have some good honey stores above.

Offline Vance G

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Re: Snow covered hives
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2019, 03:07:19 pm »
In the seventies when winters were pretty long and severe where I kept bees on the Canadian border in North Dakota, my best wintering resulted from placing my hives where they would be completely covered with a deep snow bank.  I wintered groups of twentyfour colonies, 12 facing east and 12 facing west.  A snow cave would form around the stack that didn't collapse from the top til April.  I wish I would have known about top entrances and mountain camp feed!