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Author Topic: Mites on Queens?  (Read 1744 times)

Offline Ben Framed

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Mites on Queens?
« on: June 22, 2020, 02:45:17 am »
Have any of you ever found a varroa mite attached to a queen? I am wondering if the nurse bees do such a good job grooming their queen that mites do not have a chance to latch and stay attached to a queen, until the mite is ready for move on to doing its thing? Or, do nurse bees detach mites as soon as one decides to adhere to a queen? 
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline AR Beekeeper

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Re: Mites on Queens?
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2020, 07:46:08 am »
I have seen a varroa mite on a queen only once.  It was not attached, only running around on her thorax.  I have never inspected dead queens for varroa so I don't know if they had varroa attached under the abdomen, which is the usual attachment location on workers.

Offline Robo

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Re: Mites on Queens?
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2020, 09:05:49 am »
Yes, on the thorax.   I think you will have a hard time seeing one on her underside.   An observation hive is about the only way to see mites on the underside, but I have never seen a queen walk on the glass like workers do.

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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Mites on Queens?
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2020, 10:29:40 am »
Thank you both for your answers and the picture. I would like to ask; If our queen or queens do suffer the attachment of varroa, wouldn't that mean she would have a higher chance of being infected by the viruses that Varroa Destructor carry and transmit? Wouldn't this also weaken our queen even if she (did not) obtain one or more of these virus, just as it would weaken and shorten the life of our worker bees when the fat bodies are tapped into and depleted by varroa destructor, as described by Dr Samuel Ramsey? 

Thanks, Phillip
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline AR Beekeeper

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Re: Mites on Queens?
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2020, 11:02:13 am »
Yes.

Offline JurassicApiary

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Re: Mites on Queens?
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2020, 01:05:59 pm »
Good thread, BF.  Robo, thanks for that pic; I've never seen that before on a queen.

Offline TheHoneyPump

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Re: Mites on Queens?
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2020, 03:11:46 pm »
This is believed to be a significant reason, contributing factor, as to why queens nowadays do not last as long as years ago before varroa. Sudden queenlessness and short lived queens has become normalized in the era of varroa. I personally have not seen a varroa on a queen, but you have to know and expect that when the colony infestation level is up some of the mites must get to her as well.  The bees are always grooming the queen, so many mites are probably removed before she is affected.  However in a weak or weakened colony, the grooming is likely much less and much less effective.

What I have seen on queens are the bee louse. Rarely though.  I used to see them on packages and some nucs that I bought.  Never have seen them in my own stock.  The treatments applied to control varroa (OAV etc) knock out the louse completely, and quickly.

When the lid goes back on, the bees will spend the next 3 days undoing most of what the beekeeper just did to them.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Mites on Queens?
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2020, 04:33:25 pm »
> This is believed to be a significant reason, contributing factor, as to why queens nowadays do not last as long as years ago before varroa. Sudden queenlessness and short lived queens has become normalized in the era of varroa. I personally have not seen a varroa on a queen, but you have to know and expect that when the colony infestation level is up some of the mites must get to her as well.  The bees are always grooming the queen, so many mites are probably removed before she is affected.  However in a weak or weakened colony, the grooming is likely much less and much less effective.

Thank you Mr HP. This is exactly where I was going and was to be my next questions and suggestions. Perhaps early Superseders, lost queens leading to queenless hives, non resourceful laying queens during Severe mite infestation and other reasons may be a direct cause of the varroa destructor in certain cases. This would explain much. If so, and I tend to believe it is so would explain a lot. And not only that. When folks treat with formic or certain types of formic produces, many complain that sometimes  many bees are lost at treatment time. Some have reported even the loss of the queen in certain cases. I am suggesting that these weak die off bees of treatment time may also be a direct cause of death at treatment from the effects of varroa destructor when using the organic formic treatments. Now I am speaking in terms of when all is administered correctly according to guild lines for such. I am suggesting perhaps the loss of certain queens at this time may very well be due to an already unhealthy queen. Therefore it may be good if she does die, especially if the keeper has an adequate supply of banked queens on hand to replenish the weak Sickly die off queens. Some may totally disagree but I do believe this theory is in the realm of possibilities.

Phillip
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Online Michael Bush

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Re: Mites on Queens?
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2020, 03:39:34 pm »
I have seen a varroa running around on a queen.  I have never seen one attached.
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Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Mites on Queens?
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2020, 05:48:01 pm »
Mr. Ben, we know when Varroa are in the capped cell and parasitism occurs, that bee is harmed for life and will never reach full potential.  Queen, worker or drone, all will be harmed by Varroa in the capped cell.

There is argument, by Samuels, that Varroa is not phoretic.  That means adult Varroa do not feed on grown bee. 
1.  One argument is adult Varroa feed on adult bees, Phoretic whereas the
2.  opposition states Varroa only hitch a ride on adult bee and do not feed on that bee.  Kind of difficult to prove or disprove.

Bees cannot see red, so I am not surprised Varroa are red: coincidence, I don?t think so?  I think Varroa evolved to be red to avoid detection.  Just a guess on my part.

HP has an excellent hypothesis stated above about queens and subsequent harm by Varroa.

I have examined many a queen which died in the cell and I have not seen mites.  However, this is bias because I mainly look at queens in early Spring that died of chill when the Varroa population is very low.  I alway treat with Oxalic acid in the winter broodless stage which could easily skew my observations of zero mites in queen cells because the mite population is so low in early spring.
I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Mites on Queens?
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2020, 06:12:09 pm »
Mr. Ben, we know when Varroa are in the capped cell and parasitism occurs, that bee is harmed for life and will never reach full potential.  Queen, worker or drone, all will be harmed by Varroa in the capped cell.

There is argument, by Samuels, that Varroa is not phoretic.  That means adult Varroa do not feed on grown bee. 
1.  One argument is adult Varroa feed on adult bees, Phoretic whereas the
2.  opposition states Varroa only hitch a ride on adult bee and do not feed on that bee.  Kind of difficult to prove or disprove.

Bees cannot see red, so I am not surprised Varroa are red: coincidence, I don?t think so?  I think Varroa evolved to be red to avoid detection.  Just a guess on my part.

HP has an excellent hypothesis stated above about queens and subsequent harm by Varroa.

I have examined many a queen which died in the cell and I have not seen mites.  However, this is bias because I mainly look at queens in early Spring that died of chill when the Varroa population is very low.  I alway treat with Oxalic acid in the winter broodless stage which could easily skew my observations of zero mites in queen cells because the mite population is so low in early spring.

Mr Van, good stuff! Dr Samuel Ramsey turned the tide disproving varroa destructor sucked bee blood 🩸 proving instead that the varroa actually live off the fat bodies of the bee. As you well explained a year or so ago those fat bodies act as a liver in bees if I remember correctly. This information well makes it clear why bee colonies collapse in winter when plenty of stores are found inside these dead out hives, not to mention the viruses that these mites spread. Speaking of Mr HoneyPump, he posted a very interesting article that can hopefully make a difference in the future concerning Varroa Destructor in his topic (Interesting tiny Creatures). 
« Last Edit: July 21, 2020, 04:23:11 am by Ben Framed »
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Online Michael Bush

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Re: Mites on Queens?
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2020, 12:13:19 pm »
>2.  opposition states Varroa only hitch a ride on adult bee and do not feed on that bee.  Kind of difficult to prove or disprove.


Not hard to prove at all.  They are obviously not attached when they are on the bee's back.  They are obviously attached when they are under the tergit on the abdomen.  What else could they be doing with a portion of their body under the tergit?
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