Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum

BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => DOWN UNDER BEEKEEPING => Topic started by: max2 on June 15, 2018, 12:58:16 am

Title: Honey uncapper
Post by: max2 on June 15, 2018, 12:58:16 am
Has anybody in Australia purchased one of these Harmony Farm un-cappers?

Looks rather interesting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltnAUA6GhBk
Title: Re: Honey uncapper
Post by: BeeMaster2 on June 15, 2018, 01:14:49 am
It does not look like it is uncapping the top of the frame. If it is is would be a great un capper. It looks like it could bee easily modified to be used on high production equipment where you just push it down and the frame would go all the way through to a loading rack. It does look fast and rather easy.
Jim
Title: Re: Honey uncapper
Post by: Acebird on June 15, 2018, 08:39:06 am
I haven't used it or know anyone that has but it looks cleaver at first sight.  Cleaning it might be a chore without steam or high pressure water.  Copying it would be easy.  You could just about tear apart a paper shredder if the knives were stainless.
Title: Re: Honey uncapper
Post by: BeeMaster2 on June 15, 2018, 10:21:35 am
I haven't used it or know anyone that has but it looks cleaver at first sight.  Cleaning it might be a chore without steam or high pressure water.  Copying it would be easy.  You could just about tear apart a paper shredder if the knives were stainless.
Ace,
I suspect that is where the blades came from. Just last year I gave a neighbor a shredder that had those blades in it. Wish I had it now. I will keep an eye out for one like it.
Jim
Title: Re: Honey uncapper
Post by: Acebird on June 15, 2018, 04:42:33 pm
Jim, I don't think they are stainless in a shredder though.  Maybe you can coat them with hot wax to keep them from rusting when not in use.
Title: Re: Honey uncapper
Post by: BeeMaster2 on June 15, 2018, 04:59:30 pm
If I find one I will test it and see what type of metal they are made of.
Jim
Title: Re: Honey uncapper
Post by: Acebird on June 15, 2018, 05:29:52 pm
If I find one I will test it and see what type of metal they are made of.
Jim
Some have a serrated edge but I can't see how that would hurt.  My guess would be hi carbon or tool steel.  It wouldn't stand up to shearing paper if it wasn't something tough.
Title: Re: Honey uncapper
Post by: Russ on June 15, 2018, 05:32:50 pm
From the "Click here for more info" pop up box in the video clip.
"The uncapper body is made from high density polyethylene and the rollers are cut on a CNC lathe from a solid piece of 2" aluminum bar stock. It is incredibly durable.The body protects the rollers from damage, even if dropped. I three years I have not had to replace my O-rings on my personal uncapper. If needed, replacing the O-rings is simple and they are easily purchased."
Title: Re: Honey uncapper
Post by: Acebird on June 15, 2018, 06:07:17 pm
Aluminum! Wouldn't have guessed that.
Title: Re: Honey uncapper
Post by: BeeMaster2 on June 15, 2018, 10:48:32 pm
I wouldn?t want one made out of aluminum. The acid in the honey attacks the aluminum and changes the flavor of honey and adds aluminum in small amounts to the honey.
That is why extractors are not made from aluminum.
Jim
Title: Re: Honey uncapper
Post by: Anybrew2 on June 16, 2018, 02:51:11 am
Hey Max2 In like the look of it too, I wonder how plastic frames would go...... Id say same same but different.
Title: Re: Honey uncapper
Post by: Acebird on June 16, 2018, 08:23:40 am
I wouldn?t want one made out of aluminum.
Me either.  If you can get away with soft aluminum you could use plastic.  Over mold over a stainless tube.
Title: Re: Honey uncapper
Post by: Russ on June 16, 2018, 06:40:27 pm
I have to give the inventor of the Simple Harmon Farms decapper the due credit here, as they must have put a lot of effort into this, and surely addressed many issues during development. If you don't like bare aluminium, you can have it anodized with either of a variety of coating options, very cheaply. Or machine the parts in stainless steel, but that will cost you more than what this is being sold for.  Im not aware of what the Honey Paw Slit Decapper is made of, but they found the need to steam heat their apparatus for it to work correctly on all cappings, but the honey paw does not rotate though. I am keen to get more feedback from those that have actually used it and, if good, purchase one before the price doubles.
Title: Re: Honey uncapper
Post by: Acebird on June 16, 2018, 06:53:28 pm
Less than 60 bucks for the aluminum.  That is a long way from 395 bucks.
Title: Re: Honey uncapper
Post by: max2 on June 16, 2018, 07:19:26 pm
"I wouldn't want one made out of aluminum. The acid in the honey attacks the aluminum and changes the flavor of honey and adds aluminum in small amounts to the honey.
That is why extractors are not made from aluminum.
Jim"

The honey is in contact with the Aluminium for seconds only and I doubt that this would change the falvour of the honey. Honey also attacks concrete but we clean the equipment and the floor after each use and it has never been an issue.
Of course SS would be ideal but the CNC machine would have to be something else.  The cost would be considerably greater too.
A suitable plastic? I have no idea of the possibilities and cost.

The cost of the uncapper plus postage to Australia is quite high.

At this stage I would like to see one at work before I make the investment.
Title: Re: Honey uncapper
Post by: Russ on June 17, 2018, 04:24:56 am
This version produced earlier than the Harmony model, looks like it might have stainless steel rollers. Has anyone tried this version?
https://video.ultra-zone.net/watch?v=UiLQeSs-9Zg
Title: Re: Honey uncapper
Post by: Acebird on June 17, 2018, 09:37:41 am
The honey is in contact with the Aluminium for seconds only and I doubt that this would change the falvour of the honey.
Seconds!  I don't know anyone that can complete their extraction run in seconds.  Sometimes it takes days.
Title: Re: Honey uncapper
Post by: Bamboo on June 18, 2018, 02:29:04 am
The honey is in contact with the Aluminium for seconds only and I doubt that this would change the falvour of the honey.
Seconds!  I don't know anyone that can complete their extraction run in seconds.  Sometimes it takes days.

Max2 was saying that each frame is only in contact for seconds.
Title: Re: Honey uncapper
Post by: Acebird on June 18, 2018, 09:20:19 am
I know what he was thinking but the honey is in contact with the aluminum for hours or days if it is a big extraction.
Title: Re: Honey uncapper
Post by: Bamboo on June 18, 2018, 10:11:30 am
I know what he was thinking but the honey is in contact with the aluminum for hours or days if it is a big extraction.
Why do you think that the honey is in contact with the aluminium for hours or days? Each frame is only in contact for a very short time then is is extracted. I would think that very little of the honey ever comes in to contact with it as it is the cappings that are contact with the aluminium.
Title: Re: Honey uncapper
Post by: Acebird on June 18, 2018, 10:31:23 am
Watch the movie.  It appears the rollers cut into the comb 1/4 in deep and they get covered in honey.  The second link shows a much shallower depth but it doesn't get all the cappings.  In the real world frames are not so perfect so the depth has to be set to get the shallowest frame.  Then the next frame might be a think one.  I am absolutely positive those rollers will get covered in honey.  When you uncap with a knife your frames end up pretty close to the same thickness which helps with balance in the extractor.  Some people use a comb to remove cappings and that too causes imbalance.
Title: Re: Honey uncapper
Post by: BeeMaster2 on June 18, 2018, 10:44:04 am
Most decapping machines are set up so that the drippings are caught and added to the honey supply. That means the honey is in contact with a very large surface area, each cutting disc and there are a lot of them on this machine, for a long time. The acid in honey does etch the surface of aluminum.
Jim
Title: Re: Honey uncapper
Post by: eltalia on June 18, 2018, 06:41:31 pm
IF leaching of any quanity/magnitude in a commercial honeyhouse was a
recognised problem, like product failure under food grade margins, I would
be more concerned with immersion contact in process line equipment
as valve fittings/screens/pumps/warmers.
I cannot argue for honey production lines but I do know raw milk, and
those lines are exclusively stainless steel and aluminium where structural
integrity is the benchmark for carriage of the milk.

Bill
Title: Re: Honey uncapper
Post by: max2 on June 18, 2018, 06:44:45 pm
Bamboo - you got what I was thinking  :smile:
Each frame runs through the machine in SECONDS. The blades slice the wax - very little contact with the honey.

When you are finished with your 40 or 400 frames - hose the uncapper down and , voila, no damage done
Title: Re: Honey uncapper
Post by: Russ on June 18, 2018, 07:43:23 pm
Aluminium has a property where the surface produces its own micro layer of oxidatadive protection, hard, durable and largely inert. Abrasion can be an issue but wax is not abrasive. I am peronally informed from a large industry partner that the biggest cause of contamination by far, is from the drop kicks that use house paint on the inside of bee hives, and the second, is beekeekpers that place their hives in proximity to environmental contaminants (mines, comercial agricultiure and cities) and the third is the beekeepers that directly expose there hives to chemical treatments that have been proven to reduce hive health and drone fertility. Fipronil is king. Under the B Qual assurance, the extraction line has to be approved, that is on the planet where I live, and any issues adressed. If there was a contamination issue with these upcappers, it would have been identified long ago.
All in my opinion to learn and advance beekeeping knowledge of others. 
Title: Re: Honey uncapper
Post by: Bamboo on June 18, 2018, 11:39:05 pm
Bamboo - you got what I was thinking  :smile:
Each frame runs through the machine in SECONDS. The blades slice the wax - very little contact with the honey.

When you are finished with your 40 or 400 frames - hose the uncapper down and , voila, no damage done

Yep My thoughts exactly.
Title: Re: Honey uncapper
Post by: Acebird on June 19, 2018, 08:29:17 am
Aluminium has a property where the surface produces its own micro layer of oxidatadive protection, hard, durable and largely inert.

So does steel it is called rust.  And iron is good for you and aluminum is not.
Title: Re: Honey uncapper
Post by: chux on August 21, 2018, 11:59:35 pm
I bought one of these "uncappers" late last year. Very pleasant customer service. I harvested several hundred pounds of honey from last year's crop, and all my spring honey this year, using the uncapper. I have not noticed any pitting in the blades, or a change in honey flavor. Most frames go through smoothly. Harder combs take a couple of slow angled passes, giving the blades (which are not really sharp at all) time to cut down into the cells. Low places on the frame need to be hit with an uncapping fork or roller punch. I have used it successfully with Deep plastic foundation and wax foundation frames. I also used it successfully with older medium foundationless frames.

Overall, I am pleased with the product. It gives me an alternative that saves a little bit of time, doesn't leave me a pile of wax to deal with when I don't want to, and helps me avoid hot knives. It's simple to use, and works as advertised.

Two cautions...1) Don't go too fast. If you push the comb too fast through the process, it will not cut deep enough on harder wax, and you could crush more than slice. 2) If you see any buildup of wax on the roller, keep a plastic comb nearby to clean the blades between frames. Wax can sometimes stick to the roller. When it comes around and mashes into the comb again, it can crush in and then pull comb off of the foundation (as seen in the advertisement video). This is not a problem as long as you are taking care and not rushing like a mad man to make it look like the best thing in the world!!!