BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER > COLONY COLLAPSE DISORDER - TALKS & REPORTS

neonic's tied to immune system response

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tjc1:
I think that it ought to be up to the producer to prove that their products are safe (via an uninterested third party, not from their own studies), not for everyone else to prove that it isn't. These companies have a lot to gain and to lose, and of course, they will do their best to obfuscate, deny and block. This is true of corporations generally speaking, whose aim it is to maximize profits and pass on costs elsewhere whenever possible. It is in the nature of how corporations are set up - this is just a neutral observation of the way tings work - the question is, is this the way that we want things to work. I think that it is going to come back and bite us in the future is all.

10framer:

--- Quote from: tjc1 on November 01, 2013, 10:24:50 pm ---I think that it ought to be up to the producer to prove that their products are safe (via an uninterested third party, not from their own studies), not for everyone else to prove that it isn't. These companies have a lot to gain and to lose, and of course, they will do their best to obfuscate, deny and block. This is true of corporations generally speaking, whose aim it is to maximize profits and pass on costs elsewhere whenever possible. It is in the nature of how corporations are set up - this is just a neutral observation of the way tings work - the question is, is this the way that we want things to work. I think that it is going to come back and bite us in the future is all.

--- End quote ---

and the people that oppose them will only believe data that backs their argument.  one side is as blind as the other.  find a third party to do a study and the side that loses will cry foul. this is a reflection of the division of our country as a whole.  people on the fringe spread as much or more disinformation as they do good information to keep the masses that would rather believe what they're told than think for themselves scared of what the other guy is doing or is going to do.  can you honestly say that if a study came out that said neonics are harmless to honeybees you'd believe the findings?

tjc1:
Yes I would, and I would absolutely prefer that it was done by a third party and that the results were confirmed by independent scientists in that field of inquiry. I don't doubt that there are scientists concerned about the general issue of how science plays out in the real world outside the confines of the lab, and who realize the potential danger of unintended consequences from otherwise well-intentioned inventions. By the way, I don't see myself as on any fringe, and I don't think that to take interest in and have concerns about these kinds of things and how they may affect us, the bees, and the world we live in in general is or should be seen as a 'fringe' activity. I think that having a healthy skepticism about the activities and motives of large powerful entities, be they corporations or governments (and anymore, IMHO, the corporations are outstripping even governments) is the duty of an informed and engaged citizenry.   
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10framer:
i'm not saying that being concerned means you are on the fringe.  i'm saying that most of the information you see is provided by people on the fringe with an agenda (both sides).  honestly, your answer was levelheaded enough that i believe you would listen with an open mind.  most people have made their minds up or have had them made up for them and believe that anything contrary to what they now believe can't possibly be true.  believe me, i'm all about questioning our government, these days more than ever.  also in the real world i work for a BIG corporation and i'm aware that the only worth big brother sees in me is my ability to make him more money.  but, big brother pays me well for making it so i toil away with the hopes that in a few more years i won't have to. 

buzzbee:

--- Quote from: tjc1 on November 02, 2013, 06:25:05 pm ---Yes I would, and I would absolutely prefer that it was done by a third party and that the results were confirmed by independent scientists in that field of inquiry. I don't doubt that there are scientists concerned about the general issue of how science plays out in the real world outside the confines of the lab, and who realize the potential danger of unintended consequences from otherwise well-intentioned inventions. By the way, I don't see myself as on any fringe, and I don't think that to take interest in and have concerns about these kinds of things and how they may affect us, the bees, and the world we live in in general is or should be seen as a 'fringe' activity. I think that having a healthy skepticism about the activities and motives of large powerful entities, be they corporations or governments (and anymore, IMHO, the corporations are outstripping even governments) is the duty of an informed and engaged citizenry.  
.

--- End quote ---

Now you as a producer of honey, are you willing to have a third party make sure "your" honey is safe for the market? How would I know, other than take your word for it, that you did not treat your hives with something that should not be around food products? It can be a two edged sword, if you know what I mean.
Over the years, a lot of wax has been tested for chemicals, and guess what, most of the nastiest were put there by beekeepers. Like camaphous. Highly reactive with the central nervous system.

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