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Author Topic: Ready to swarm or orientation flight  (Read 1092 times)

Offline ic3blue

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Ready to swarm or orientation flight
« on: November 09, 2021, 01:21:07 am »
Hello from south coast NSW

First time beekeeper here - managed to captured our first swarm colony (11/10/21), and they are doing very well

This morning while doing routine inspection of the hive, I found so many bees buzzing at the front of the hive (video attached - not a good quality)

I wonder if some body can help me to identify this situation - is the colony ready to swarm or the young bees doing their orientation flight?

Thank you 🙏


Online Ben Framed

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Re: Ready to swarm or orientation flight
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2021, 02:49:48 am »
ic3blue welcome to Beemaster!  Congratulations of your first hive! It looks like you did well capturing this swarm. Was this swarm capture a pleasant experience for you?

>  is the colony ready to swarm or the young bees doing their orientation flight?

In the video, in my opinion, they look to be in the process of an orientation flight.. Were they still hived in the evening?
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV

Offline ic3blue

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Re: Ready to swarm or orientation flight
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2021, 04:17:17 am »
Hi Ben

Thank you, I really have a great joy for having this girls in our yard, from checking-up their well-being and make sure they have enough food to start building up the colony - I am well aware that nature also be able to provide more than enough for these busy bees.

The hive now is settled and I can see many of foragers bring back pollen and perhaps also ?propolis (bright orange colour) to the hive.

Can?t wait to learn on how to wintering and make a nuc

I still cannot believe that I enjoy so much for being a beekeeper

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Ready to swarm or orientation flight
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2021, 09:18:23 am »
Quote
I still cannot believe that I enjoy so much for being a beekeeper

 :grin: Yes beekeeping is enjoyable for those of us who >get the bug<. It is always good to welcome another to our unique experience of The Honey Bee. It seems the learning experience never ceases to reveal more of its secrets. Glad you are here to share the experience of beekeeping.

Phillip
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV

Offline The15thMember

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Re: Ready to swarm or orientation flight
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2021, 10:43:58 am »
Welcome to Beemaster, ic3blue!  I agree with Ben Framed, looks like orientation flight to me.  The bees are just kind of lazily drifting around the hive, not the mayhem of a swarm.  It's good to see someone new on the Australian section of the forum.  We northern hemisphere beeks rely on our southern hemisphere friends to keep us occupied throughout our winter, so keep us posted on how they are doing!  And of course feel free to ask any and all questions you may have.  :happy: 
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Ready to swarm or orientation flight
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2021, 08:20:40 am »
IC3,
Welcome to Beemaster.
This is definitely not robbing and does not look like swarming.
It does look like orientation. What time was it when you took this video? How long was it after you put the swarm in the box?
Jim Altmiller

Offline ic3blue

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Re: Ready to swarm or orientation flight
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2021, 09:59:38 pm »
Hi BeeMaster

I have the swarm colony since 11/10/21 - I took the video in the arvo 14:00 EST 10/11/21

I also have some more questions to ask - I just went to the hive and check the box. In the brood box, I found: Honey, Pollens, Capped brood, open larvae, open hatched brood - I hardly see the queen.

Also, (on my untrained eyes), I found: 1x queen cup on the bottom of the frame and 1x queen cell with larvae in the cup, and only some drones combs.

For the BeeMasters out there, what?s that mean: is this trouble?

Thanks

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Ready to swarm or orientation flight
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2021, 10:45:45 pm »
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I found: 1x queen cup on the bottom of the frame and 1x queen cell with larvae in the cup, and only some drones combs.

what?s that mean: is this trouble?

ic3blue, with a queen cup at the bottom and larva inside there is definitely something going on. The question is what. Usually when the bees are in the process of going into swarm mode, in my experience, there will be more than one swarm cell at the the bottom of the frames with larva. Usually at least 4 and most times several more. I really don't know in this case of only one, unless you have caught them in the very beginning.

Is your queen marked? When you say I hardly see the queen, do you mean you did not see the queen at all? It is my experience that in the case of a hive leaning toward supersedure, replacing the present queen naturally,  and the queen is found, they will sometimes make the queen cells on the side of the comb.

Finding only one queen cup with larva stumps me...


 
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV

Offline The15thMember

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Re: Ready to swarm or orientation flight
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2021, 11:52:52 pm »
I agree with Ben Framed.  Only one active queen cells suggests a supersedure, the bees replacing their current queen without swarming.  A colony that you caught as a swarm is unlikely to swarm only a month after being hived.  If you are seeing drone brood, perhaps the queen is failing, and they are doing the right thing in replacing her.     
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline ic3blue

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Re: Ready to swarm or orientation flight
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2021, 03:25:27 am »
Queen cup on the bottom is empty but 1x queen cell sort off the middle of frame have larvae in it. I did not destroy the cells just in case is important for the colony.

Normally I can see the queen but not today (queen not mark) and a lot of workers bees and hard for me to find the Royal highness.

Not much drones brood, I hope is just supersedure. When should I check the hive again - 7 days?

Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Ready to swarm or orientation flight
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2021, 08:48:55 am »
IC3,
Most primary swarms will replace the old queen shortly after the new hive is established. Since you have a hive full of brood, this is normal.
Jim Altmiller

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Ready to swarm or orientation flight
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2021, 10:25:44 am »
IC3,
Most primary swarms will replace the old queen shortly after the new hive is established. Since you have a hive full of brood, this is normal.
Jim Altmiller

Agreed.
You might find this article interesting.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfallacies.htm


« Last Edit: November 11, 2021, 10:37:41 am by Ben Framed »
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV

Offline The15thMember

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Re: Ready to swarm or orientation flight
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2021, 11:55:39 am »
When should I check the hive again - 7 days?
If they are superseding, it's best to not disturb the hive until the transfer of power is complete.  It takes a total of 16 days for the new queen to hatch out of her egg, grow as a larva, pupate, and eclose (hatch) as an adult, and then several more days for her to mate and begin laying.  Since you are seeing a larva in one of the queen cups, they are already several days into the process.  If it was me, I'd wait 2 or 3 weeks before checking again.  If at that time there are new eggs laid, no more queen cells, and all seems normal, you could assume the supersedure was successful.   
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Ready to swarm or orientation flight
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2021, 01:11:10 pm »
Ic3blue,
I meant to ask if you were still seeing eggs on your last inspection even though you did not see the queen?

When should I check the hive again - 7 days?
If they are superseding, it's best to not disturb the hive until the transfer of power is complete.  It takes a total of 16 days for the new queen to hatch out of her egg, grow as a larva, pupate, and eclose (hatch) as an adult, and then several more days for her to mate and begin laying.  Since you are seeing a larva in one of the queen cups, they are already several days into the process.  If it was me, I'd wait 2 or 3 weeks before checking again.  If at that time there are new eggs laid, no more queen cells, and all seems normal, you could assume the supersedure was successful.   

I agree with you The15thMember.
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV

Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Ready to swarm or orientation flight
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2021, 04:49:59 pm »
Sorry, I disagree. You should wait 30 days. This gives the queen a chance to get strong, make her maiden flights, a few days before she lays eggs and then for enough brood to bee in the hive for the queen to prove that she is a good queen.
Jim Altmiller

Offline ic3blue

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Re: Ready to swarm or orientation flight
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2021, 05:16:48 pm »
Thank you guys for the advised, yes I still seen eggs - and oh my lord so many bees 🐝😋

I will left the hive alone (which really hard to do 😋) and fingers crossed all will be a ok

Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Ready to swarm or orientation flight
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2021, 06:14:01 pm »
Supercedures are good because for a while you will have two queens laying at the same time. As long as you have a lot of bees and a good flow your bees will build up very quickly.
Jim Altmiller

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Ready to swarm or orientation flight
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2021, 07:16:27 pm »
ic3blue, this might be a good time to check out the topic "Clever or "Fluff and over-hyped-crap"? : The Double Screen Board".

Under the Heading:
EQUIPMENT USAGE, EXPERIMENTATION, HIVE PLANS, CONSTRUCTION TIPS AND TOOLS

Phillip
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV