Welcome, Guest

Author Topic: who uses plastic frames?  (Read 19983 times)

Offline ozbee

  • New Bee
  • *
  • Posts: 30
  • Gender: Male
Re: who uses plastic frames?
« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2012, 09:38:10 pm »
 rod palmer  the closet for NQ

Offline the-ecohouse.com

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 263
    • the-ecohouse.com
Re: who uses plastic frames?
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2012, 02:58:18 am »
apparently i did ... :shock:

Offline Ben Framed

  • Global Moderator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 12634
  • Mississippi Zone 7
Re: who uses plastic frames?
« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2023, 09:56:45 am »
By reading this older topic, I suppose plastic was still in the earlier learning stages at the time. A lot can be learned by reading Beemasters older topics, (a beekeepers time capsule if you will). I will post 'one' quote, though this one, is just one of many interesting post placed here, within this topic.

There are many related 'topics' in the archives pertaining to plastic frames..

Phillip


i have drawn and used over 30,000 plastic frames in the last twelve months and all i can say is they are the only way to go . if flooded or blown apart like from cyclone yassi all they have to do is water blast them with hi pressure . with beetle you can water bast or dip in boiling water and go again . even after floods they are the best  the wooden frames with the plastic tend to break down because of the acid from the honey. to drawn roll them with a fine line of molten wax in water also draw in top box for best results / plastic hives work best when all the frames are plastic
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline max2

  • Queen Bee
  • ****
  • Posts: 1206
  • Gender: Male
Re: who uses plastic frames?
« Reply #23 on: December 27, 2023, 10:06:52 pm »
Plastic frames. Plastic anything.

I have avoided most things plastic from the time we strated with bees.

It sure has it's place but recycling has limits and I try not to add to landfills.

There is another aspect - does plastic affect the taste of honey?

I have a mate  who has about 150 hives and sells at the same places we sell. People regularly tell me that our honey is " much nicer". We like the compliment but why should our honey be " nicer"?

Most of his hives are in an area with a lot of Privet and Camfor laurel. This could be a reason - we are in a bush enviroment. Very few privets.

He uses a pump , plastic hoses, plastic frames and plastic supers...we don't use any of these things.

Any evidence that plastic has an affect on the taste of honey?

Offline Michael Bush

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 19917
  • Gender: Male
    • bushfarms.com
Re: who uses plastic frames?
« Reply #24 on: December 28, 2023, 05:52:22 am »
The plastic doesn't affect the flavor that I can tell.  How much you heat the honey affects the flavor a lot.  Keeping different nectar sources separate gives each kind a more distinct flavor.  If you crush and strain it has more flavor then when you extract.  The honey flying through the air loses a lot of floral notes.  The most flavorful is comb honey.
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--James "Big Boy" Medlin

Offline The15thMember

  • Global Moderator
  • Galactic Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 4493
  • Gender: Female
  • Traveler of the Multiverse, Seeker of Knowledge
Re: who uses plastic frames?
« Reply #25 on: December 28, 2023, 12:09:41 pm »
Interesting, yet another reason why I don't see myself getting an extractor. 
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline Michael Bush

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 19917
  • Gender: Male
    • bushfarms.com
Re: who uses plastic frames?
« Reply #26 on: December 28, 2023, 12:35:29 pm »
Being able to reuse the comb will make a lot more honey.  Probably not enough to justify a new extractor for only a few hives, but enough to justify using one if you can get it cheap enough.
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--James "Big Boy" Medlin

Offline Ben Framed

  • Global Moderator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 12634
  • Mississippi Zone 7
Re: who uses plastic frames?
« Reply #27 on: December 28, 2023, 03:37:02 pm »
Isn't the plastic foundation coated with beeswax in the amount the bees themselves desire before they add nectar within the added drawn out cells? If so, isn't it reasonable to assess that the added nectar/honey 'flavor or taste' will not be changed by using a plastic foundation base, anymore than in comparison to natural beeswax foundation since nectar/honey is encased in beeswax from every angle, never touching the plastic in the foundation?.. (In both situations)

Phillip
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline Michael Bush

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 19917
  • Gender: Male
    • bushfarms.com
Re: who uses plastic frames?
« Reply #28 on: December 28, 2023, 05:44:43 pm »
Some are unwaxed and all are barely waxed.  Like a light spray where most of the plastic is still exposed.
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--James "Big Boy" Medlin

Offline Ben Framed

  • Global Moderator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 12634
  • Mississippi Zone 7
Re: who uses plastic frames?
« Reply #29 on: December 28, 2023, 07:39:32 pm »
That is true. It is generally accepted that we either add a bit of wax ourselves, or buy plastic foundation pre-waxed to encourage the bees to take it from there, (a starting place if you will), to add what amount of wax they themselves deem acceptable for their purpose. Purchasing plastic foundation with some amount of wax added, or adding wax to it ourselves, will encourage bees to continue until they have it covered to their satisfaction. As if is also generally know, many times bees will not add wax (draw out bare plastic foundation) themselves without this added wax encouragement. But once accepted they will add what wax they deem adequate to finish coating the plastic.

Joe May of Indiana shows us a way to have bees wax coat the plastic foundation 'themselves' without us having to manually add wax ourselves.

https://youtu.be/1F8i1-K2Rzw?si=zbViSbNsiGrz_zyC
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline Terri Yaki

  • Queen Bee
  • ****
  • Posts: 1470
  • Gender: Male
Re: who uses plastic frames?
« Reply #30 on: December 28, 2023, 07:54:38 pm »
My neighbor got a batch of 100% plastic frames last year and he reports that they built on them like they loved them. His uncle was opposed to using them and said that the bees would not accept them.

Offline Ben Framed

  • Global Moderator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 12634
  • Mississippi Zone 7
Re: who uses plastic frames?
« Reply #31 on: December 28, 2023, 08:14:42 pm »
That is awesome Terri, many times with bare plastic, they will start their 'own row of comb' on the outer edge of the top bar bypassing the plastic which is not a good thing.

Phillip
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline Lesgold

  • Queen Bee
  • ****
  • Posts: 1199
  • Gender: Male
Re: who uses plastic frames?
« Reply #32 on: December 28, 2023, 09:10:24 pm »
At the moment my bees have only enough nectar coming in to keep them going. If I were to place a plastic foundation or comb into a hive, they would take any wax from that frame and utilise it elsewhere. They only work plastic when there is no option ie a newly hived swarm, a hive building quickly in the spring or when there is a good flow on. Bees don?t like new plastic perhaps due to its smell. Plastic foundation that has previously been used in a hive can bee scraped clean and placed back into a box with better acceptance.

Offline Ben Framed

  • Global Moderator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 12634
  • Mississippi Zone 7
Re: who uses plastic frames?
« Reply #33 on: December 28, 2023, 10:27:00 pm »
Thats right Les resources make the difference...
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline Michael Bush

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 19917
  • Gender: Male
    • bushfarms.com
Re: who uses plastic frames?
« Reply #34 on: December 29, 2023, 06:11:19 am »
> His uncle was opposed to using them and said that the bees would not accept them.

Acceptance by the bees has a lot to do with timing.  When there's a flow and there's no where else to build comb, they build it fast.  When they don't need comb too badly, sometimes they will hesitate.  And some of it is genetic.  Some colonies are happy to build on it and others hesitate.

https://bushfarms.com/beesfaqs.htm#messedupcomb
https://bushfarms.com/beesfallacies.htm#waxplastic
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--James "Big Boy" Medlin

Offline Terri Yaki

  • Queen Bee
  • ****
  • Posts: 1470
  • Gender: Male
Re: who uses plastic frames?
« Reply #35 on: December 29, 2023, 09:00:38 am »
> His uncle was opposed to using them and said that the bees would not accept them.

Acceptance by the bees has a lot to do with timing.  When there's a flow and there's no where else to build comb, they build it fast.  When they don't need comb too badly, sometimes they will hesitate.  And some of it is genetic.  Some colonies are happy to build on it and others hesitate.

https://bushfarms.com/beesfaqs.htm#messedupcomb
https://bushfarms.com/beesfallacies.htm#waxplastic
He did say that they built it fast. I don't know what 'fast' is here and I'm not sure that he does but he made it sound like they had whatever plastic frames he put in there, built out in a week. I do not know how many of them he put in either.

Offline BeeMaster2

  • Administrator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 13529
  • Gender: Male
Re: who uses plastic frames?
« Reply #36 on: December 29, 2023, 09:20:22 am »
Terri,
When you use plastic frames, always add a super with plastic only. If they have anything else in the super, they will use that first and usually not use the plastic.
Jim Altmiller
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

Offline Terri Yaki

  • Queen Bee
  • ****
  • Posts: 1470
  • Gender: Male
Re: who uses plastic frames?
« Reply #37 on: December 29, 2023, 09:31:27 am »
OK, that's interesting.

Offline Ben Framed

  • Global Moderator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 12634
  • Mississippi Zone 7
Re: who uses plastic frames?
« Reply #38 on: December 29, 2023, 01:11:00 pm »
That is awesome Terri, many times with bare plastic, they will start their 'own row of comb' on the outer edge of the top bar bypassing the plastic which is not a good thing.

Phillip

Here is a picture of an example of what we do not want, and why it is recommended that a wax coat be added to plastic foundation... Picture credit to Honeyflow.com

2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline Michael Bush

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 19917
  • Gender: Male
    • bushfarms.com
Re: who uses plastic frames?
« Reply #39 on: January 02, 2024, 06:42:18 am »
I have decided the most accurate description of this is a "parallel half comb".  Because it's parallel to the foundation but there is only a cell on the outside and not on the back side.  The other common problem are fins at right angles to the foundation.
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--James "Big Boy" Medlin