Whether carry or home protection - what do you depend on first?

[beemaster]

Well... carry is out for me, not allowed with considerable reason, but home protection I have a Glock 19 gen4 which is always handy and loaded with American Eagle 9mm flat nosed - remember, you can't use hollow point in New Jersey except in competition or at the range. So I use flat nosed to hopefully stop over penetration if the need ever occur.

I'm still thinking about a shot gun, likely 12 gauge and likely pump action. I have three rifles and all are WW2 or early Cold War era, but shoot beautifully, but this is NOT something you protect your home with here: houses closely spaced apart, all three rifles to big to maneuver around - besides two are bolt action, SKS is semi-auto. Still, my Glock is always loaded, never chambered though and 2 full mags besides the ones in the Glock.

We could argue chambering a round in the Glock all day and I believe all sides would have very valid points. I just choose to know that my Glock won't go off until I rack it - oh and I use a Brass-stacker slide grip for fast chambering of a round. It was originally for helping my wife get a better grip on the Glock slide to rack it and although the gen4 spring eased a little, it is still a bugger to pull back compared to earlier generation.

So in the time I grab the Glock off the nightstand and have it in my hand, I've already chamber a cartridge. It is an almost effortless step and one I'd rather deal with, than have a negligent discharge in my home fumbling for the gun and grabbing it wrong in the dark and only awake seconds.

Besides the 9mm (and the 22 revolver I didn't mention here) I have "personal body alarms" which my mother bought for me and my wife over a decade ago, attached to our front and back doors. If the door is opened even a little the safety pin is pulled and a shrieking 100db alarm goes off. These are still around for about $20 a pair and attach simply to doors. I highly doubt anyone would come in after those alarms sound, but if the literally ran toward the living room or bedrooms, it would take 12 or more seconds - which is a life time of blaring noise and plenty of time to prepare for what might be climbing the stairs.

So we have drilled on  the best route to protect ourselves, how about you? I know gun owners, mostly hunters who do not keep home protection weapons handy and I wonder why. As we all get older, there is always someone younger, faster, stronger and stupider that might try to pull off a home invasion and I believe you need to equalize the threat, if not neutralize it. And it's all an insurance policy against the worse case scenario - a stranger in your home that might be there to steal anything valuable for drugs or God help us, cause harm to our families. The latter may happen, but not without a fight to someone's death.

So, what do you protect your home with and why? And I didn't mention carry much here because I can't comment on what I can't do - but when you aren't home, what goes with you?





 

[Kathyp]

I keep a .45 by the bed, but the truth is, not much beats a shotgun.  In the middle of the night, in the dark, it's probably your best bet.  + you live in town and with the shotgun you don't have to worry about a round going through a wall or window. 

or, use hollow points.

[nella]

So, what do you protect your home with and why?
[/quote]




.410 pistol ooo shot with a laser,    why---good coverage.

[iddee]

In my pocket.... Kel-tec .32 caliber auto.

In home, several longarms, both rifles and shotguns, plus a pistol or two.

#1 protection... Living in a small town and having a reputation that I am armed and will shoot if needed. Well known combat veteran. Well known as a hunter.

Reputation enhances the saying "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure".

[Michael Bush]

I have a five shot Taurus DA .357 with a bobbed hammer.  I would not even consider anything but a DA revolver for self defense nor anything smaller than a .357 nor anything bigger than a .357...  A .44 mag is too hard to handle and a .38 is not a reliable stopper.  A DA is foolproof.  It can only be in one of two states:  loaded and unloaded.  If it fails to fire another pull on the trigger brings a new round up.  It never jams.  There is no safety to remember.  Nothing more frustrating and life threatening than pulling a trigger and nothing happens...  A Colt 1911 can be any of six states... from 0 to 5.  Other semi-autos vary.

I can put the Taurus in a pocket and the hammer won't catch (no spur).  I can have it behind my back or whatever to avoid bringing a gun into a situation until it's needed.  If five shots won't resolve a situation it's time to get out of there anyway.

I went and bought my first revolver the day after I confronted an invader with a shotgun.  The barrel is too long and you can't keep a gun out of the situation until it's needed with a shotgun.  Sometimes not having a gun in the situation is the best thing to keep it calm and avoid it becoming a life and death situation.  Sometimes it changes to life and death and you need the gun.  A pistol can offer both.  And you don't have a barrel sticking out for someone to grab.

[Snowhitsky]

My first line of defence is the lock on the front door. Mind you, I often forget to use it.

My second line of defence is living in a country with minimal gun ownership, even lower rates of gun usage and very low rates of violent crime.

As a last resort I own a cantankerous cat.

So far, the only potential firearm victims  I've come across have been inept hunters with poor firearm handling skills. And I mean truly inept.

[Michael Bush]

Another thing to keep in mind is these kind of encounters happen at 2:00 am or so and you often are still trying to wake up.  It's hard enough to focus on whether the situation requires you to use a gun, without having to think about whether or not the safety is off and if there is a round in the chamber or not...

[Culley]

Have any of you thought about a home invasion scenario where someone just comes and knocks on your door? Do you take a concealed firearm every time you open your door? Or do home invasions only happen at night there?

Not trying to be a smarty pants. I live in Australia where violent crimes usually don't involve firearms. But I have traveled in countries where gun violence is part of everyday life.

[divemaster1963]

Wife has a 38 sp first round is snake shot so she just has to point in direction and shoot. That should make them blink and hesitate then second round slug then 3rd snake if she misses then slug then was cutter. But with her diminished hand strainth I got her a Taurus pt22 with the flip up barrel so she does not have to track the gun. Me I have my 45 acp 1911 plus a special made 45 acp bullpup assault rifle ( made for close quarters adults . 15 ound clips in 1911 and 25 round for bullpup. Then short barrel 12 ga with 25 round mag plus numerous rifles and others. No more than 2 steps from any one.  Plus a sheriff that has stated in public just make sure there buried deep enough not to smell.

[Hops Brewster]

Have any of you thought about a home invasion scenario where someone just comes and knocks on your door? Do you take a concealed firearm every time you open your door? Or do home invasions only happen at night there?

Not trying to be a smarty pants. I live in Australia where violent crimes usually don't involve firearms. But I have traveled in countries where gun violence is part of everyday life.

Depending on the time of day/night, or if I'm not expecting a visitor, I just might answer the door with a 9mm in hand, otherwise, it is close at hand, and I never answer without looking out first.

At night, my .45 is on the nightstand, and the 18.5 inch 12 gauge loaded with 00 buck is very near.
But first, an intruder will pass my motion lights and CCTV cameras, my fence, locked door, alarm, and 70 pound set of canine bark and teeth.
What am I worried about?  Not a lot. 

I adopted these measures after a neighbor was attacked in her home.

[hjon71]

So, what do you protect your home with and why? And I didn't mention carry much here because I can't comment on what I can't do - but when you aren't home, what goes with you?

You can carry all you want, Practice civil disobedience.
A crime happens when a victim is harmed not because of disobeying unjust "laws".

 For home defense I prefer an "illegal" sawed off 410 followed by the .380. Sound too light? Break in and find out.
For carry, concealed or open, it's the .380 everytime. Compact and lightweight are the 2 most important criteria to me for carry purposes. Well placed shots are more important than stopping power.

[Michael Bush]

>Have any of you thought about a home invasion scenario where someone just comes and knocks on your door? Do you take a concealed firearm every time you open your door? Or do home invasions only happen at night there?

All of mine but one happened in the middle of the night and began with someone kicking in my door or prying it open with a crowbar.  I do take a gun with me anytime something seems not right about what is going on but it will probably be in the small of my back and not in plain sight.  But there are also other people in the house and any of them could grab a gun if it was needed.  The one in the daytime the neighbor lady was at the door screaming "he's going to kill me!" and I let her in.  She was beaten to a pulp.  The husband kicked in my door yelling and became suddenly very complaint when he saw the .30-30.

"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." - Robert A. Heinlein

[sc-bee]

Couple hand guns --- (9mm and 38+p and .22's) Long guns-- well I would have to count. Always been a long gun shooter. Multiple 12's around and a 20 and a 410. Rifles- several .22's, a 7-08, .270, muzzle loader etc.

Have put off getting my conceal carry..... need to move it up on the priority list.

[kingd]

  Lately around here,breakins have been in the early to mid afternoons,They knock on the door and if no one answers they kick the door in.

 Now for me,We have dogs and if they get through the dogs I/we have a 12 gauge and a  40 cal glock. When out I carry the G23 glock but am looking at getting a smaller one for the wife(she is thinking around a 9mm) and something for when I'm wearing shorts.
  I do have a concealed and the wife is getting hers in a couple of months.

[GSF]

A friend of mine had a break-in a while back. 4 cars in the drive way, outside lights on, inside kitchen light on, in-laws visiting, heck - it didn't matter the perp was on crack. My friend made the mistake of going in the living room/kitchen area without his pistol. The perp had a knife and cut him a couple of times. He fell back against the fireplace and grabbed a loose brick. He told me he beat that guy in the head so much the brick broke. It didn't even knock him out.

I have plenty of long and short guns all around the house - and a well out back.  :evil:

[iddee]

GSF, you could have left that last line off. Now I'll think about it every time I go draw a bucket of water.    :fishhit: :jawdrop:  :hissyfit:

[OldMech]

One of the posters mentioned living in a location with minimal gun ownership..   It made me laugh..  if I wanted to make a living taking what other people owned by force, thats the first place I would go.

   First line of defense here is NOT locking the doors, so anyone wishing to break in does not need to actually beak anything.  Second line is the two Dobermans sleeping in their personal chairs...
   When they bark, it takes my wife and I approximately two seconds to have our firearms in our hands ready to fire.
   We have practiced this..  One time being when our 27 year old son decided he couldnt drive all the way to his house inebriated so He drove the block or so to our house at 3 am...
   Next time the daughter lost her house keys and came here at 1 am to sleep...
   Neither of them got shot, but neither of them came through OUR bedroom door..
  Our guns are to protect our lives, not our physical belongings. We can replace anything we have, except our lives.

[GSF]

 I probably shouldn't have said that. My wife will skin me up if the feds tore the English ivy off of her well.


...on the other hand, it does need some digging out :th_thumbsupup:

[Redbug]

Michael Bush and I think alike about what guns to carry and have at ready. I have shotguns inside the house as well as pistols. One thing about carrying...whatever you carry concealed must be small enough to be comfortable to wear, too. Otherwise, you will not want to wear it all the time. You don't need some big thick thing that imprints under your clothing easily. I have several Ruger SP101's in 357 with the 2" barrels.

There have been houses in our proximity broken into. But, our place is not like the others. We also have large dogs and our place is fenced and gated. No one gets in. Unless the dogs get poisoned. That happens. I think many robberies are done by people that have the scoop on where they are going to rob and they pick the easiest prey. I often shoot squirrels with the shotgun in the back yard. I think things like that also provide information and a deterrent to the surrounding neighborhood about that particular persons style. Gunfire is good on occasion.

I used to not carry much at all. But always had a pistol in the truck or in a room nearby. Now, with all the civil unrest, I carry all the time. On the street, my vehicle can be a pretty good weapon, too.

I think about scenerios and this kind of stuff all the time. It may keep you alive.

[Redbug]

And let me add...if you are anti-gun, just keep bee hives around your doors. Burglars are afraid of bees. But I don't think carrying concealed bees is a good idea, though...

[minz]

My first line of defence is the lock on the front door. Mind you, I often forget to use it.

My second line of defence is living in a country with minimal gun ownership, even lower rates of gun usage and very low rates of violent crime.

As a last resort I own a cantankerous cat.

So far, the only potential firearm victims  I've come across have been inept hunters with poor firearm handling skills. And I mean truly inept.

+1 (minus the cat)
In family Handyman about 5 years ago they showed what was a good dead bolt and how to reinforce the door frame with 3” heavy screws so it would not just cave in. If you seen the way most door jambs are made it is a good line of defence-Time.
Never point a weapon at anybody you are not prepared to shoot. Hold it low and when they cross your line in the sand you shoot them right in the leg, right where you are aiming. Do not raise it where they can get a hold of it.

[beemaster]

divemaster1963 said:

But with her diminished hand strength I got her a Taurus pt22 with the flip up barrel so she does not have to track the gun.



SAFETY QUESTION: if the cartridge chambered fails to fire, I see you can expel it, but don't you need to rack the slide OR drop another .22 in the barrel to continue firing??? That loss of time scares me, especially if the person is to weak in the hands to rack the slide in the first place.

It is a cool looking pistol though - love it inn wood finish, a little thick then, but purdee!

[Redbug]

BeeMaster...The Taurus PT22 is a fine gun for a lady with weaker hands. Small, too.

Otherwise, the simplest pistol would be a small J frame revolver. They are just about full proof and jamming is not an issue.

[Hops Brewster]

just keep bee hives around your doors. Burglars are afraid of bees. But I don't think carrying concealed bees is a good idea, though...

I have thought of posting a "Trained Attack Bees on Guard" sign, but decided that I wouldn't a very good Bee Ambassador if I did.

[iddee]

The sign should read, "Africanized honeybee experimental beeyard".

An Arkansas farmer wrote once that he lost a cow a year to deer hunters. He posted all kinds of signs, electrified his fence, etc. Nothing helped. He then posted signs reading "Arkansas rattlesnake refuge". He never lost another cow.

[BeeMaster2]

Iddee,
I wanted to put up the following sign but decided not to due to one anti bee neighbor:
GUARD BEES ON DUTY
Jim

[beemaster]

Great bunch of posts - more specific than I thought which is awesome - thanks for sharing.

A few points, one being carry. No we can't in NJ BUT IF I COULD, as much as I love my Glock 19 (15rnds 9mm) I don't have a set of clothes to loosen my belt enough for a In the Waist Band Holster - and I've bought enough "roomier" pants.

So, I'd go smaller or thinner, although I don't overly like single stack semi-autos - in many cases might as well have a Michael Bush revolver theme going. I like revolvers, only have the Ruger SP101 .22lr 5 inch barrel (well looks 5 inch) and what an accurate and fun gun to shoot - holds 8 shots. I did find that IF I miss a cleaning after the range, I start having about 15-20% failure to fire. The Ruger .22 uses a transfer bar to the firing pin allowing you to dry fire with no harm to the cylinder or firing pin as in most .22 revolvers. That's not only in their books, website, but from their mouths too - so no crappy .22 snap caps, dry fire all day if you wish.

But I'd likely go big or go home with conceal - small in size, big in power is ideal for carry - you lose the barrel length for speed and accuracy if your carrying a 2 inch barrel, but a DA semi in all manageable calibers 38s in a sub-compact is enough power, although I have shot (staggered shot) 38 and 357 and I swear in the revolver I used, they both felt about the same. But again, larger police sized revolver, not anything light those Star Wars like Ruger's revolvers - cool yes, but I'm sure you'll carry more than range fire it.

Oh, in answer to a question above Do you carry your gun to the door answer... depends! If company is on the way, I assume they'll be knocking. If it's light out, I have good visibility out my living room window above my door - but after dark, good window view or not, my Glock is placed just under the rear of my living room couch (bi-level house) about a foot from my left hand (I'm a lefty) and I answer the door with my right. It's 2 locked door between me and anyone - a chambered 9mm a foot away is plenty of security especially since they can't see it.

My feeling is "I never EVER want anyone to put me in a situation to use a firearm on them." That said, unless you are willing to use one to preserve your life, well then carry wasp and hornet spray around with you. I swear, there is no better CONVENTIONAL weapon besides a gun than wasp and hornet spray, having a 20 foot range to blind someone beats any pepper spray and you will blind them, a wound to the leg or shoulder heals, but they be blind forever. And sure you can have a cross bow locked and loaded, but unless this is the Hunger Games, you better hit home the first time.

So the question is, since I can't (legally) even carry pepper spray in NJ (it is a home defense item only) then wasp and hornet spray it might just be in the car! Always think like a cop - it's you job to get home safe at the end of the day. But as mentioned also, OBSERVATIONAL AWARENESS is so important - simple example, if you're parked near a van or suspicious vehicle, don't approach - set off the car alarm with your key ring. Let it blast, if there is a danger, they'll get out ASAP. And always lock your car doors when in it - people get ripped out of their cars every day because they never think to do it. And take 10 seconds as you are parking and when you park (even in your yard) to look around before unlocking your car and going in your home. You might just drive up on an invasion, or a neighbor chasing someone with a gun - all things to stay away from. The biggest safety IS between your ears, use it.

[Hops Brewster]

Spot on Beemaster.
My daughters roll their eyes when I tell them why I keep my home and car doors always locked and why I keep weapons handy at home;
"Last time I checked, 100% of home invasion robberies happen at home." and, "They can't carjack me if they can't get in."

In Utah, open carry is legal (though not real common), CCW is 'shall issue', and your car is an extension of your home, so firearms are allowed.   I carry pepper spray every time I walk the dog, and often a pistol.   I made the decision a long time ago to never surrender my right of self protection, therefore, I can't live in places like NY, NJ, IL, CA.  Too bad.  I hope some day you'll be able to live in a free NJ.

[Dallasbeek]

A friend of mine had a break-in a while back. 4 cars in the drive way, outside lights on, inside kitchen light on, in-laws visiting, heck - it didn't matter the perp was on crack. My friend made the mistake of going in the living room/kitchen area without his pistol. The perp had a knife and cut him a couple of times. He fell back against the fireplace and grabbed a loose brick. He told me he beat that guy in the head so much the brick broke. It didn't even knock him out.

I have plenty of long and short guns all around the house - and a well out back.  :evil:

GSF, when I was prosecuting, we were bringing a bunch of prisoners into court for arraignment and one broke away and got his cuffd arms around a deputy sheriff's neck.  I told the deputy I was going for his Mace (so he'd know it wasn't another prisoner or something), then emptied a large police-issue can a Mace right into the prisoner's face before he finally gave up the struggle and went down.  Turned out he was on heroin HE HAD GOTTEN IN THE JAIL and it took the whole can before he felt it.  It was like I had been spraying him with water.  They hauled him back to a cell and when we brought him back for arraignment later that day he was still crying. 

Even stranger is that until the weekend before, I had no experience with Mace, so I had sprayed a little on my finger and dabbed it on my face under each eye.  Just that little bit caused tears to flow like crazy until I used something to neutralize it.  So I was expecting it to subdue the prisoner immediately.  I probably could have shot the guy and he wouldn't have felt it. 

BTW, I think what I used to neutralize was baking soda in water.  A chemist might verify this.  So if you get tear-gassed, this might help.  And I don't think the jail did anything to neutralize the prisoner's discomfort.

So, yeah, I can see the intruder in your story being hard to subdue.  Some drugs just do that.

[Packrat3wires]

We have indoor dogs that go nuts when someone pulls on to our farm.   Our house is 1300 feet off the road so anyone coming down to our cabin is either family..... or someone who shouldn't be here.    At night, if the dogs go crazy we know we have a problem if no one has called us first since we have no trespassing signs posted.    We then have an opportunity to greet our guest in a Ole Kentucky fashion.    In our case, a Remington 870 loaded with birdshot then 00 / Slug 00 / slug / etc.   

During the day when I am on the farm I carry a hammerless S&W model 642.   Hammerless reduces the chances of catching on a fence plus it is in a serpentine holster with finger release.   I have the first 2 rounds with birdshot for those slithering creatures my wife and I sole dearly hate.    (Lost a dog to a Copperhead several years ago)   The remaining 3 shots are Hydo-Shock for those 2 legged predators or coyotes.    Hopefully will never need the last 3 rounds!!!   I have 29 years with the Kentucky Justice Cabinet and my dad had 37 years.   As Ronald Regan said "Trust but verify".    I say "better to have, and not need, then need, and not have".   

[Michael Bush]

>- and a well out back

But why contaminate the ground water...?