Starting package bees on drawn comb, when to add second brood box

[kithnelso]

Hi, i have had a hive or 2 for a few years now, but unfortunately I lost both hives over winter.  I installed 2 new packages on Monday on drawn comb that i had from last year.  I opened the hives today to see how things are going, and they look quite crowded.  My question is when should i add another brood box, because all the frames are drawn out, but the population will decrease for a few weeks.  When starting with no drawn comb i can find plenty of advice on when to add second brood box, but cannot find any on when to add second box when starting on drawn comb, oh I almost forgot I am using mediums (eventually 3) for my brood boxes.  Thank you in advance for any advice or suggestions.

Keith

[billdean]

You say they are quite crowed but is the queen laying? Are you seeing capped brood, larva or eggs and if so how much? Are they storing any nectar? From the time I start seeing capped brood on a hive started with drawn comb, I know in 2 weeks I will have a lot more bees. I would add another box with foundation at that point and give all those bees something to do. You don't say where you are located but early spring (right now) for me is prime time to get a lot of wax put on some frames.

[Acebird]

Keith, where are you located?  Put it in your profile so you don't keep getting this question.
In my area right now I would put on another box in two weeks, assuming the queen is laying.  The forth would go on when the third got heavy with honey.

[cao]

Welcome.   

I would add another box when they are using over half to 2/3 of the box.  Since it is already drawn, It comes down to whether it is being used(brood or honey/nectar). 

[Rurification]

Welcome to the forum!    I'll +1 what cao said about adding boxes. 

[iddee]

Ace would be near right if he had a second box in the equation.

Asking if a package has capped brood 4 days after install tells you how much dependence to put in that one.

2/3 of a box plus an empty equals 1/3 of the hive protected. That's not enough bees, especially when the number of bees are dwindling, to protect from wax moths and small hive beetles.

Add a box when bees are covering 7 of 9, or 9 of 11, openings between frames.

[Acebird]

iddee, I doubt if he has to worry about wax moths and hive beetles until June in CO.  And if the weather doesn't break it might not be until August.
When I installed  a package it was in two boxes and I added a box of honey on top of that.  In June and July I added a couple more.  No problems with wax moth or hive beetles.  I fail to see why the colony will dwindle if the queen starts laying.

[Oldbeavo]

We would only add another box when the bottom box/hive is full. the bees will tell you this when they start storing honey under the lid or other places than the frames.
The extra honey may come from a flow or the bees shifting honey to allow more room for the queen to lay.
If you add a box too early they have to keep this new area warm as well as the brood box.

[iddee]

You may be right about the time in Colo., but a package installed a week ago is going to dwindle at least 2 more weeks. 3 weeks after install before the first new bee emerges, maybe a few days more.

[Acebird]

If you add a box too early they have to keep this new area warm as well as the brood box.

I am of the belief that bees don't heat the hive.  They cluster when it is cold and the heat loss from the cluster may contain some heat within the hive to their advantage but they have no interest in heating the hive.  When it is cold they have no bug pest except for the mite or occasional beetle because the mite can live within the cluster, so to the beetle.  In early spring space is not a problem for a colony.  It can be an advantage because the queen can lay in every cell that the bees prepare for her.  The colony only needs enough bees to cover the brood if the weather gets cool.  (I am speaking for my area)
I don't get this dwindling theory.  Bees can live 5 months through a hard cold winter.  Why?  Because they don't forage.  They are not wearing themselves out.  If you give a package drawn comb and a box of honey the only thing they have to forage for is pollen.  Pollen is like carrying back feathers.  They are not going to get worn out foraging for pollen.  So someone has to come up with some kind of proof that a package (assuming healthy) is going to dwindle in three weeks when they are given all the resources that they need except pollen because I didn't see that.

[cao]

I don't get this dwindling theory.  Bees can live 5 months through a hard cold winter.  Why?  Because they don't forage.  They are not wearing themselves out.  If you give a package drawn comb and a box of honey the only thing they have to forage for is pollen.  Pollen is like carrying back feathers.  They are not going to get worn out foraging for pollen.  So someone has to come up with some kind of proof that a package (assuming healthy) is going to dwindle in three weeks when they are given all the resources that they need except pollen because I didn't see that.

Any time a bee leaves the hive there is a chance it won't return.  So technically a package will dwindle in numbers until bees are hatched.  How much depends on alot of factors.  In the original post he hived on drawn comb.  There was no mention of stores or feeding so I assume the bees are foraging. 

2/3 of a box plus an empty equals 1/3 of the hive protected. That's not enough bees, especially when the number of bees are dwindling, to protect from wax moths and small hive beetles.

Add a box when bees are covering 7 of 9, or 9 of 11, openings between frames.

To clarify, are you saying that you would wait til there is only about one frames worth of empty comb?  Some of us(me) go by what's on the frames not necessarily number of bees.

[iddee]

I go by number of bees. If comb content doesn't balance with bees, I feed.
That is for buildup. Honey flow may be different.

[Acebird]

In the original post he hived on drawn comb.  There was no mention of stores or feeding so I assume the bees are foraging. 

You are right nothing was mentioned but even when a hive starves out there is usually honey not consumed.  Hard to say whether CO have forage or not.  I am not there.

[BeeMe]

   Good discussion.  Keith can you fill in some of the missing information and give us an update on your situations?