Expensive Issue

[Salvo]

Hi Folks,

I go out on calls for bee issues,.... but I always pass on cutouts. It's an adventure to get 'em out. Another thing to put it all back together again.

https://www.foxnews.com/lifestyle/north-carolina-child-hears-monsters-wall-turns-50k-buzzing-bees

A hundred pounds of honey,... the bees were there for a while. And the homeowner's insurance does not cover it.

Sal

[Ben Framed]

But $20,000.00 worth of damages?

[Terri Yaki]

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[JurassicApiary]

But $20,000.00 worth of damages?

I read the article earlier and my wife laughed as she heard me call out "bull...."...she's hyping it up.

[Ben Framed]

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Yep I got the same so I found the report without hassle on. NBC

[Ben Framed]

But $20,000.00 worth of damages?

I read the article earlier and my wife laughed as she heard me call out "bull...."...she's hyping it up.

For Sure!   

[animal]

$20,000 outrageous ? Maybe, maybe not.

On a modern house, or a "just fix it" job ... yeah, almost certainly.
but
Article mentioned 100 year old house. It mentioned attic and damage to floorboards in the daughter's room ... that's kinda odd unless the bees were also in the walls ... and maybe the bee guy made a mess of things removing them ? who knows?

I look at a 100 year old house as middle-aged and have done work on places that are much older. If you're talking historical restoration work, that figure could very well be low, especially if it's a large room and you want the repair to be invisible.
There are many questions that come to mind immediately.. type of wood for the flooring?, wood lathe with horsehair reinforced plaster for the walls? or was there paneling and all the questions that arise there? are there government restrictions on the structure? What does the customer want? .. etc ... etc.

2 to 3 weeks work with a crew, including materials, in North Carolina for 20K doesn't set off alarm bells at all to me.

 

[JurassicApiary]

$20,000 outrageous ? Maybe, maybe not.

On a modern house, or a "just fix it" job ... yeah, almost certainly.
but
Article mentioned 100 year old house. It mentioned attic and damage to floorboards in the daughter's room ... that's kinda odd unless the bees were also in the walls ... and maybe the bee guy made a mess of things removing them ? who knows?

I look at a 100 year old house as middle-aged and have done work on places that are much older. If you're talking historical restoration work, that figure could very well be low, especially if it's a large room and you want the repair to be invisible.
There are many questions that come to mind immediately.. type of wood for the flooring?, wood lathe with horsehair reinforced plaster for the walls? or was there paneling and all the questions that arise there? are there government restrictions on the structure? What does the customer want? .. etc ... etc.

2 to 3 weeks work with a crew, including materials, in North Carolina for 20K doesn't set off alarm bells at all to me.

Indeed they said there's work to be done in the attic, walls and floorboards...which they allude is due to the bees, but I highly doubt all that damage was done by bees and that's the point.  I've done hundreds of removals big and small in new old (100+yrs) and even homes on the Historic Home Registry....and never have I seen a job where the removal and repairs would be anywhere near that.  I have no doubt a 100+ year old home could easily accumulate $20k worth of work in a single room in repairs, but caused by a single hive of bees...I call BS.  I believe the bees were the reason to open up the hidden spaces which revealed "other" issues that the homeowner was trying to tack on to convince their insurance to cover everything.

[Ben Framed]

Unlike Jurassic; My bee removal 'hands on' experience is limited, but I did study to learn how to do so for the sake of acquiring my first start in bees, after watching 'many removal videos' by JP and Schawee.. In my less than a hand full of cutouts I replaced everything I took apart including sheetrock if on the inside or siding etc on the outside so that a stranger would never know a cutout was done.. 'Never' did I see any reason for extensive damage done by a bee colony.

In this case, at the very worse hypothetical scenario, 'might have been' if the hundred plus pounds of honey had been slimed by the Small Hive Beetles and ruined the flooring, which simply was not the case. If that was the residents would have noticed it for sure. They only knew that there was something in the wall making a noise on the inside of the wall that was not visible to the naked eye and apparently no tell tale signs, including damage. According to the report they were 'shocked' to find bees..

So by the evidence presented by the report, I dare say this removal was no different than any other except maybe larger... more bees, comb, and honey etc. Therefore I tend to agree with Jurassic on this one.....

Phillip

[animal]

I don't see the bees doing that much in damage to the structure either ... but I can see it being done by people in the process of working on it.

You guys are basing your opinion on your own skill level and conscientiousness. You guys are also typically the first on the scene. In this type of situation, I would be the guy that comes in later to pick up the pieces and put them back together and while I might agree with you IF I knew I was going behind someone like you guys, with lots of experience removing bees, and would take care with the building; that's a huge IF. (not to mention that I know some otherwise good contractors that I wouldn't trust with an older structure) Going in behind someone else is the worst and that's partly what I'm basing my opinion on. One thing I learned very quickly is to NEVER EVER assume the competence of someone because they are certified to do the work.

I think your guess is probably right, but there are other possibilities.
 
Is it considered hyping it up if she's stating her expenses and the reporter calls it damage to the house? A hotel bill for the family could account for a goodly chunk of money if this is the case. Has she been charged consult fees by others that looked at it leading up to the cut-out and how much did that amount to?  She mentioned other "beekeepers" had looked at it before one cut a hole to the attic.

Next, there's the "beekeepers" or whoever did the cut-out, and the possibility they cut where they shouldn't have , or made other mistakes.

Then there's the building contractor who may or may not know what he's doing on an older structure and what can be cleaned and resurfaced and what can't. There are many that would avoid the headache and skill required to match materials and opt for giving a price of ripping out the whole thing and starting over with the methods they know.

There are several things I have to wonder about the article. For one, it mentions honey seeping between the floorboards. Ummm why? Honey is not exactly known for it's wicking action. Next, why can't it be cleaned out and resurface the floors after?
Why do they have to vacate the structure if the damage is confined to the daughter's bedroom and the attic?
Why is this bs on the news to begin with?

There are too many open questions to even begin to give an estimate, but that's from a guy that guarantees that he won't go over his estimate.

[Ben Framed]

You guys are basing your opinion on your own skill level and conscientiousness. You guys are also typically the first on the scene. In this type of situation, I would be the guy that comes in later to pick up the pieces and put them back together and while I might agree with you IF I knew I was going behind someone like you guys, with lots of experience removing bees, and would take care with the building; that's a huge IF. (not to mention that I know some otherwise good contractors that I wouldn't trust with an older structure) Going in behind someone else is the worst and that's partly what I'm basing my opinion on. One thing I learned very quickly is to NEVER EVER assume the competence of someone because they are certified to do the work.

And that may very well be the case. Your point is well made! Even still the bee remover guy would have to be some kind of 'destructive hack' to do that much damage.     lol   

[animal]

I hesitate to even say that. Sometimes people run into something that they're just not familiar with and the customer wants everything to be like original when the job is finished.
Hack a hole in sheetrock, who cares? The stuff is 15 bucks a sheet and super-easy to cut, but plaster is different. To start with, if you're not holding the saw right and the blade hangs on a piece of lathe, a small hole to repair can turn into one running several feet to the side. 
Moulding was much more elaborate and made of better materials back then. All natural materials were better back then. A lot of older trim, you just can't get anymore and have to make it from scratch.
Usually the price of a job getting blown out of proportion isn't due to one thing, but a series of unforeseen things, each costing more and adding up.
You wouldn't believe some of the stuff I've run into over the years, though. There was one that the owner had some plumbing work done on an older building and the pipes were run through the ceiling. He called me after the plumbers were done and I wish he had called me first. Multiple-step built-up crown moulding with 3 rows of dentiling and around a foot wide ... was pretty much destroyed along one wall. A lot of embossed copper ceiling tiles ripped down all across the ceiling. Plumbers were told to tear out what they had to and fix the pipes, so they did. It wasn't their fault, they did what they were told. The owner was fine with what they had done until he heard my price, threw a fit and said he was gonna get someone else... so I thanked him and left. 6 months later I was fixing it after redoing the estimate and the cost was a little higher. Had another job on a 7 foot by 10 foot room, 12 foot ceilings that had over 10,000 in damages from a tiny leak in the roof and it didn't look that bad at a glance. It was a butler's pantry of a Victorian, so you can think of the room as one huge piece of walnut furniture and the price included resoldering a seam on a copper roof. Those two examples are exceedingly rare and the most extreme ones I can think of over the last 35 years or so, but you just never know what you're gonna run into.

There are also the "special" customers that get charged more. Think of it as a service charge for dealing with their attitude, if you will. I've as much as quadrupled an estimate based on "likely problems foreseen dealing with THAT person" and still gotten the job... even after telling her I knew my price was extremely high and it was because I didn't want to do the job, giving glowing recommendations for my competition that she had also gotten estimates from and were about a quarter of my price. Whatcha gonna do? If they insist, take the money. And nope, I don't feel guilty about it

[Ben Framed]

There are also the "special" customers that get charged more. Think of it as a service charge for dealing with their attitude, if you will. I've as much as quadrupled an estimate based on "likely problems foreseen dealing with THAT person" and still gotten the job... even after telling her I knew my price was extremely high and it was because I didn't want to do the job, giving glowing recommendations for my competition that she had also gotten estimates from and were about a quarter of my price. Whatcha gonna do? If they insist, take the money. And nope, I don't feel guilty about it

Absolutely do it as the hassle is being paid for as well! A laborer is due his wages! Dealing with a difficult client is labor as well! 

[Michael Bush]

If you can kill the bees without poisoning them during a dearth, you can bring a few strong hives and get them interested in robbing it out.  Put some honey on the entrance.  Catch a few bees from each hive and put them at the honey.  They would rob things out pretty quickly.

[Bill Murray]

There are also the "special" customers

And these are growing every year.

[Ben Framed]

If you can kill the bees without poisoning them during a dearth, you can bring a few strong hives and get them interested in robbing it out.  Put some honey on the entrance.  Catch a few bees from each hive and put them at the honey.  They would rob things out pretty quickly.

Good idea Mr Bush. I suppose all the dead bees would simply dry up without problems? And after the robbing was complete the area could be sealed up to prevent wax moths?

[iddee]

I have removed hundreds of hives, but have never repaired the building. If a person does both, the next year he does the new swarm for free because they ""RETURNED"". If one person does the removal and another does the repair, the beekeeper says he didn't do the repair so he isn't responsible. The repairman says he doesn't do bees, so they have to call someone else. Then the beekeeper and the repairman gets paid the second time.

[Michael Bush]

My experience is that they never listen and they don't do the repair so the bees can't get in so the bees do return and you have to tell them again, to seal it up completely...