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Author Topic: DSSB and DE vs Oil  (Read 1917 times)

Offline Occam

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DSSB and DE vs Oil
« on: June 23, 2023, 06:24:24 pm »
I've read about a lot of people using dssb's (translation if needed double screen bottom boards) annoying oil and I've read about some using DE (diatomaceous earth).if one uses the DE option the vermin essentially dehydrates in the bottom. I would think this is relatively odor free since there's no opportunity to turn  oil and other organic matter (dead beetles, mites, larvae, etc) rancid. Had anyone good this to be the case? Less frequent need to remove or clean out below the screen? More frequent?
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Offline Bill Murray

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Re: DSSB and DE vs Oil
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2023, 06:50:42 pm »
I use Double screen bottom boards to raise queens. Beyond that Ill listen. I think screened bottom boards are useless. Just y opinion.

Offline paus

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Re: DSSB and DE vs Oil
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2023, 07:37:46 pm »
As I have posted before, I use DSBB with about 3/4 inch of oil in the oil pan.   It is not necessary to use the oil in every hive after the SHB is under control.  I have no none nada SHB.  The first thing I do is smoke through the DSBB 2 3/4 inch door in the rear of the DSBB then pour the oil through a strainer, clean the pan, not really actually scrape it out.  They do work!

Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: DSSB and DE vs Oil
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2023, 08:34:40 am »
They are all he most effective way to kill SHBs that I know of. My neighbor and I killed them by using them for two years. In thirty days every oil tray would bee solid black with dead beetles and they stunk. Used a hose to wash them and then refilled them with vegetable oil or mineral oil. After two years we both independently decided that we didn?t need the oil anymore because we  devastated the local SHB population. I did try DE in the trays once. It didn?t seem to kill the beetles. I think they just crawled out. It takes a very finely ground de power to kill them. If you look at DE under a microscope it has very sharp edges, like a bunch of knives stuck together. This gets in their aviolies, sp, breathing tubes and between their exoskeleton joints and this kills them.
Jim Altmiller
« Last Edit: June 24, 2023, 02:01:32 pm by BeeMaster2 »
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: DSSB and DE vs Oil
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2023, 05:26:42 pm »
Occam the following archive might interest you, (it was posted back in the day). 😊

https://beemaster.com/forum/index.php?topic=42318.msg362211#msg362211
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline Bill Murray

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Re: DSSB and DE vs Oil
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2023, 12:05:44 am »
So are we talking about Double Screen Bottom Boards Or Screened Bottom Boards?

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: DSSB and DE vs Oil
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2023, 07:50:37 am »
What would be the point of a double screen on a bottom board?
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Offline Bill Murray

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Re: DSSB and DE vs Oil
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2023, 08:42:18 pm »
Thats what I was wondering

Offline Occam

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Re: DSSB and DE vs Oil
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2023, 03:01:26 pm »
So are we talking about Double Screen Bottom Boards Or Screened Bottom Boards?

Good catch, I was just meaning screened not double screened
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Offline paus

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Re: DSSB and DE vs Oil
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2023, 11:20:04 am »
I think screened bottom boards would work with an oil pan under neath.  I tried this and I had bees build comb on the screen beside the oil pan. I build my DSBB so they are bee proof and I have a door in the back so the oil pan can bee serviced without bothering the bees.  I also use the door to smoke the hive thirty minutes before opening.  Thanks to Jim for this tip.  I do this without a bee suit so I am cooler for thirty minutes as I only have 3-4 hives on a stand, this works for me.  There are no Messey problems if "I" think and do not move the box before I remove the oil tray.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: DSSB and DE vs Oil
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2023, 01:41:57 pm »
Paus it was you and Jim that first taught me of oil pans and how to use them to effectively control Small Hive Beetles. I still feel a sense of great appreciation and gratitude to you both for teaching me of this effective method of controlling the pest.

Each of my first bees colonies were obtained 'the hard way' by cutouts. The first cutout I did was very exciting to me because I had been anticipating beekeeping for quite some time and was chomping at the bits to get my hands on my very first bees! I had joined Beemaster one year prior in order to study and learn from all of you good folks here obtaining the education I felt was needed in becoming a beekeeper. I was in the shadows here reading y'all's post, seeking while learning from those current post at that time, as well as searching the archives.

I already had some 'basic' woodworking equipment and decided to built my own woodware for the satisfaction of knowing I could do it, before I got my first 'bee'.  I went with the basic Langstroth design and made plenty of 'extra' woodward, much more than I felt that I would need, in order to make sure I had it on hand when needed. 
Some of you had stressed the need of having extra woodware available and on hand when needed, "bees don't wait"! You good folks at Beemaster had stressed time and again the 'reasons' for having 'more than enough' woodward. I am glad I did because the extra stuff has came in handy 'many' times since..

On all of my home built solid bottom boards, I inserted a '3/4 strip' around the outer edge for a place for the Brood Box to rest upon, as well as providing space between the bottom of the box, giving the bees room to maneuver. All basic Langstroth Hives bottom design, with perhaps the difference of a 3/4 rest strip for space. Some use a rest strip which is less than 3/4 'is my understanding'. The reason that I went with the 3/4 resting strip is I can rip these strips from a sheet of plywood, or a plank for this purpose and not have to use a planer to plane those rest strips down to the Langstroth standard dimensions. My strips are '3/4 by 3/4', meaning 3/4 wide and 3/4 deep. After 5 years of beekeeping this has worked very well for me and without a hitch...

When I first had problems with Small Hive Beetles, unfortunately, I was losing the battle. A loss that I just could not tolerate without a fair fight. (getting bees via the cutout method is not the easiest way to acquire bees) and each cutout was special to me; not 'only' because of gaining the bees, but as well as the memory of each unique experience, along with the experience of the good folks which I dealt with when acquiring those first colonies.. 

I stressed what was happening here at Beemaster, I was given several responses, all seemed to be good ideas and I very much appreciated 'each and every' response to ponder over. I finally decided to go with the oil tray method that you and Jim suggested.

Now; Down to the nitty-gritty of the discussion lol.. I do not use double screen bottom boards for my oil trays. The reason I did not start my oil tray bottoms this way is because I already had the solid bottoms made and as I stated before, I took what I had, removed the 3/4 strips and set them aside. 'Then' I built a hollow box, (I'm thinking from a 1X4 ripped to a 1X3), with the outer dimensions the size of my Langstroth boxes and attached these directly to the bottom boards. On what I chose to be the back of his box was I placed a hinge so that back board could be opened and shut, making a place to insert the oil trays. On top of this box I placed the number 8 Hardware Cloth with 18 gauge air staples, the screen the exact dimensions, length and width, of the Langstroth broods boxes themselves.
On the outer edge of this contraption, lol, (over the screens outer edges), I placed the 'set aside' 3/4 strips, making this set up my new bottoms, and that is it. Worked perfectly.. I can open the back of the box to easily remove or replace the oil pans, while the bees come and go from the front with business with usual. 

I built my oil pans out of aluminum roofing flashing in order for custom fit.
Inside my oil trays, I use mostly water, a dash of mothers vinegar, and on top of this a layer of vegetable oil to coat the top of the water which retards evaporation as well as doing the Small Hive Beetles in.. 

Phillip


2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline paus

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Re: DSSB and DE vs Oil
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2023, 06:57:59 pm »
Michael, in our part of the country I NEVER see bees clustering because of the heat.  If I only have one screen bottom they build comb on the screen on the underside of the SBB.  By having the back door pre smoking is easy before the hive needs to be disturbed before lifting the top,  I also use a screened top board with cloth and 3/4 inch of sawdust or planner shavings on the cloth for insulation from heat, and moisture absorption in winter, I never see signs of condensation in the hive IE: no mold.  I accumulate used aluminum casserole dishes from several places including catering friends.  I roll the used dishes with a piece of small tree branch in each of the long sides to make handling easier.  I recycle the oil after straining.  The first night I used a DSBB with oil I caught 23 SHB, plus I am sure it helps with Varroa.  The overall weight of the hive is usually a little lighter than a solid board, but I made my first DSBB much heavier than was needed, since I use lighter material and I now rip the 1x4's in half.  except for the sides, this way I have about 2 3/4 inches for the oil pan.