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Author Topic: Another Mean Hive  (Read 3582 times)

Online The15thMember

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Re: Another Mean Hive
« Reply #40 on: June 12, 2023, 02:35:03 pm »
Well then that's perfect!  Thanks so much, Michael!  This is way easier, faster, and safer than doing the whole thing with water (which I still might use as an accessory to keep bees from flying), and plus it preserves all the resources in the hive and the woodenware.   
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Offline Occam

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Re: Another Mean Hive
« Reply #41 on: June 12, 2023, 02:52:39 pm »
Is your hive bottom entrance I'm assuming? Is it wide open or restricted?
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Re: Another Mean Hive
« Reply #42 on: June 12, 2023, 03:44:04 pm »
Is your hive bottom entrance I'm assuming? Is it wide open or restricted?
It is a bottom entrance and it is restricted, quite a lot actually.  I have a home-made entrance reducer on this one and the entrance is about 2 inches wide. 

My mom and I were out in the garden picking some salads for lunch just now.  We were about 25 ft. away from this hive and lower in elevation than it, and we had two bees after us, and my mom (who doesn't do well with bees) was stung on the neck.  I'm almost wondering if they aren't expressing an Africanized phenotype, and/or this is a feral swarm I caught, because I've never seen anything like this.  I'm going to try and deal with them tomorrow, so tonight I'm going to seal up the hive so they are all home.  Anything else I should do this evening to prepare? 
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Offline Occam

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Re: Another Mean Hive
« Reply #43 on: June 12, 2023, 04:22:04 pm »
Just ignore me I was coming up with ways to complicate things. Was thinking about using a rag with bee quick on one side  and the vacuum at the other entrance to suck up the bees as quickly as they come out to get away from the bee quick. To minimize the inevitacloud of bees. Guess you could set up the vac at the entrance, pop the top and toss in a rag then shut the top again. Just thinking of ways to minimize the number of bees to deal with while speeding up the process
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Online The15thMember

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Re: Another Mean Hive
« Reply #44 on: June 12, 2023, 07:39:09 pm »
Just ignore me I was coming up with ways to complicate things. Was thinking about using a rag with bee quick on one side  and the vacuum at the other entrance to suck up the bees as quickly as they come out to get away from the bee quick. To minimize the inevitacloud of bees. Guess you could set up the vac at the entrance, pop the top and toss in a rag then shut the top again. Just thinking of ways to minimize the number of bees to deal with while speeding up the process
No problem.  :cheesy:  Thanks for thinking for me, but I don't own any bee quick anyway.   
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Offline iddee

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Re: Another Mean Hive
« Reply #45 on: June 12, 2023, 07:52:21 pm »
Well, you can say what you want about me now. If you spend several days killing off half a hive this late, when the other half won't have time to build back before winter, but refuse to call Lewis to save the whole hive and requeen it in a day, I don't think I care to try to help you in the future. I had a much better opinion of you before this thread.
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Re: Another Mean Hive
« Reply #46 on: June 12, 2023, 08:03:51 pm »
Well, you can say what you want about me now. If you spend several days killing off half a hive this late, when the other half won't have time to build back before winter, but refuse to call Lewis to save the whole hive and requeen it in a day, I don't think I care to try to help you in the future. I had a much better opinion of you before this thread.
I'm sorry to hear that, Wally.  But I'm not sure that requeening this hive is enough at this point.  The bees will still be mean for like 6 weeks, and I can't have my family unable to go outside for that long, so I would need Lewis to do something more drastic than just requeening too, and I'm fairly confident I can do this myself with the shop vac.  If they are too small going into winter, I can always combine them with another colony.   
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Offline FloridaGardener

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Re: Another Mean Hive
« Reply #47 on: June 13, 2023, 01:27:54 am »
If you are ready to get rid of all the bees but want clean comb & stores then:

suit up GOOD
don't close the entrance yet, makes 'em madder
remove outer lid, not inner lid
slide 2 pieces of lang-sized Luan in between the top hive bodies. Quick quick quick. Lift the top hive body and drop it on a bungy cord lying on a flat surface. Tighten the bungy.  Now you've locked bees inside.

Do this again with two more pcs luan for 2nd  layer, if needed.

Now close the entrance by slapping on a piece of duct tape and pressing. yep there will be some taped bees. Use more duct tape to secure the boxes while carrying.

Put the boxes in the freezer for 24 hrs.

Remove, rinse out brood, give stores to other hives.

I did this, I had to wash out lots of stings from my suit and pro gloves, but I had good PPE and was more intimidated than injured. I saved all the good comb and resources.


Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Another Mean Hive
« Reply #48 on: June 13, 2023, 06:24:53 am »
I have requeened many hives that were back to normal behavior in a few days.  I know the theory.  But that's what I've seen.  I would split them into separate boxes plus some empty at the original location.  This calms them quickly.  Then requeen all the queenless ones or give them brood to raise a queen.

https://bushfarms.com/beesrequeeninghot.htm

As Jim said, it won't hurt the vacuum, but I wouldn't leave them there long.  They don't take long to start to smell.
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Online The15thMember

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Re: Another Mean Hive
« Reply #49 on: June 13, 2023, 12:02:10 pm »
If you are ready to get rid of all the bees but want clean comb & stores then:

suit up GOOD
don't close the entrance yet, makes 'em madder
remove outer lid, not inner lid
slide 2 pieces of lang-sized Luan in between the top hive bodies. Quick quick quick. Lift the top hive body and drop it on a bungy cord lying on a flat surface. Tighten the bungy.  Now you've locked bees inside.

Do this again with two more pcs luan for 2nd  layer, if needed.

Now close the entrance by slapping on a piece of duct tape and pressing. yep there will be some taped bees. Use more duct tape to secure the boxes while carrying.

Put the boxes in the freezer for 24 hrs.

Remove, rinse out brood, give stores to other hives.

I did this, I had to wash out lots of stings from my suit and pro gloves, but I had good PPE and was more intimidated than injured. I saved all the good comb and resources.
Thanks, FG.  I don't have the freezer space unfortunately, but another good idea. 

I have requeened many hives that were back to normal behavior in a few days.  I know the theory.  But that's what I've seen.  I would split them into separate boxes plus some empty at the original location.  This calms them quickly.  Then requeen all the queenless ones or give them brood to raise a queen.

https://bushfarms.com/beesrequeeninghot.htm

As Jim said, it won't hurt the vacuum, but I wouldn't leave them there long.  They don't take long to start to smell.

I don't have the equipment to split them, or I would have already done so.  And as much as they are terrorizing my front yard, I need this situation resolved now.  I have a mean hive that I requeened in April, who would make it impossible for everyone to be outside when I worked them, and my family was very patient about that situation, but this hive is much worse, and I can't ask them to wait and see if things will turn around if I just try removing the queen.  I'm only willing to give them a chance at half their current size because earlier in the year when they were small, they weren't any trouble.  Thanks for trying to think of ways to avoid killing them, but unless there is another option that would fix them instantaneously, I'm going to proceed with the vacuum.  I'm actually not going to be able to do this today, my sister is going to help me and she's not available, so we are going to do it tomorrow instead.
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Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Another Mean Hive
« Reply #50 on: June 13, 2023, 12:40:32 pm »
FG,
I know a guy that put a hive of bees in his freezer for a couple of days to kill them and then put the hive in his car and drove several hours. Before he got to his destination the bees were filling up the car.
This guy was a bee inspector. When he told me about it I was a new bee and thought ?duh? bees over winter in Alaska.
If they?re enough bees in any of the boxes, they will bee just fine in the freezer as long as they go into cluster.
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Offline FloridaGardener

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Re: Another Mean Hive
« Reply #51 on: June 13, 2023, 12:47:57 pm »
Ha - I have Florida bees, they shiver at 40 degrees   :wink:

Alternative: Get a wet-dry shop vac. Put a gallon of soapy water in the bottom. Make sure the hose is on suction not blow.
Stand ther for an hour vaccuming every bee that comes out of the entrance and when they stop coming out, crack the lid.  After a hour, just nurse bees. 

Again, suit up well.  I did this too, and the noise of the vac drowns out the buzz of mad bees.


Online The15thMember

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Re: Another Mean Hive
« Reply #52 on: June 13, 2023, 01:07:35 pm »
Alternative: Get a wet-dry shop vac. Put a gallon of soapy water in the bottom. Make sure the hose is on suction not blow.
Stand ther for an hour vaccuming every bee that comes out of the entrance and when they stop coming out, crack the lid.  After a hour, just nurse bees. 

Again, suit up well.  I did this too, and the noise of the vac drowns out the buzz of mad bees.
Oh, that's a good idea too.  Honestly, I might go with that.  Even if it takes a while, I'd have to think there will be less flying bees if I don't open the lid.  This will also take all the currently mean bees entirely out of the picture, and I can use the nurse bees and unhatched brood to requeen if I want.  Thanks, FG.     
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Offline iddee

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Re: Another Mean Hive
« Reply #53 on: June 13, 2023, 01:54:28 pm »
"I'll keep that in mind.  I would like to try and deal with it myself if I can, but I'll keep that in my back pocket in case I can't.""

I guess that was a quote on the level of a politician.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Re: Another Mean Hive
« Reply #54 on: June 13, 2023, 02:14:18 pm »
"I'll keep that in mind.  I would like to try and deal with it myself if I can, but I'll keep that in my back pocket in case I can't.""

I guess that was a quote on the level of a politician.
What I meant by that was "If I can't find a safe way to deal with them," and I think I have. 
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Offline iddee

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Re: Another Mean Hive
« Reply #55 on: June 13, 2023, 04:04:52 pm »
Maybe you think murder is a safe way to do things, but I don't. I think you may be afraid of the title "inspector". They do not force you to do anything. They look and suggest what to do, then help if wanted.They are a wonderful asset, not someone to be afraid of. They don't do anything you don't want them to do. Having not been through the hive, it could be something as simple as queenless. You don't know if you haven't been through it.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Re: Another Mean Hive
« Reply #56 on: June 13, 2023, 04:20:23 pm »
Maybe you think murder is a safe way to do things, but I don't. I think you may be afraid of the title "inspector". They do not force you to do anything. They look and suggest what to do, then help if wanted.They are a wonderful asset, not someone to be afraid of. They don't do anything you don't want them to do. Having not been through the hive, it could be something as simple as queenless. You don't know if you haven't been through it.
The hive is not queenless.  Last weekend there was BIAS in the hive.  I have no fear that the inspector, or anyone for that matter, will force me to do something I don't want to do.  I also don't view the humane killing of an unmanageable homestead animal as "murder", especially not one that has a natural lifespan of 6 weeks.  I have already explained to you my reasons for not desiring the help of the inspector.  I apologize if you are not happy with the choices I am making in this situation, but I am not accountable to you, only to myself and my family.   
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

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Re: Another Mean Hive
« Reply #57 on: June 14, 2023, 04:47:13 pm »
All right, it's done.  It took long, several hours, but it went really well.  Vacuuming at the entrance worked great and got the meanest bees out of the picture right away and before they even had time to alert the rest of the hive.  Once bees stopped coming to the entrances to attack the vacuum, I cracked the lid and we vacuumed up everyone on the top bars.  There weren't many foragers in the top, and there was also BIAS in there, so we looked for the queen, found her, and sent her on her merry way.  The nurse bees up there weren't any hassle, so we set those boxes aside and then working frame by frame, we vacuumed up most of the bees in the bottom section of the hive.  The bees down there were almost all foragers, and were pretty nasty, but the vacuum was quite efficient.  The hive next door became a little bothered by the vacuum noise, so we did take a little break for about 15 minutes just so they could calm down, but other than that, everything was very safe and smooth and no one got stung.  I left them with most of the capped brood that had been in the bottom of the hive, since there weren't any eggs or larvae of queen-rearing age down there (I removed any QCs they had made as we went).  I made sure they had several frames of honey since they won't have many foragers for a while.  The rest of the brood I put in the freezer.  I'll uncap it and feed it to the chickens.  We got 5 or 6 frames of capped honey out of the deal for ourselves, and the rest of the uncapped honey I'll spread around the yard for the other bees to cap.  Thanks to everyone who helped out with this.       
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Offline Occam

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Re: Another Mean Hive
« Reply #58 on: June 14, 2023, 04:59:01 pm »
Nice to hear it went well, hard work but worth it for the sanity and safety of the family life I'm sure
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Another Mean Hive
« Reply #59 on: June 14, 2023, 05:08:46 pm »
All right, it's done.  It took long, several hours, but it went really well.  Vacuuming at the entrance worked great and got the meanest bees out of the picture right away and before they even had time to alert the rest of the hive.  Once bees stopped coming to the entrances to attack the vacuum, I cracked the lid and we vacuumed up everyone on the top bars.  There weren't many foragers in the top, and there was also BIAS in there, so we looked for the queen, found her, and sent her on her merry way.  The nurse bees up there weren't any hassle, so we set those boxes aside and then working frame by frame, we vacuumed up most of the bees in the bottom section of the hive.  The bees down there were almost all foragers, and were pretty nasty, but the vacuum was quite efficient.  The hive next door became a little bothered by the vacuum noise, so we did take a little break for about 15 minutes just so they could calm down, but other than that, everything was very safe and smooth and no one got stung.  I left them with most of the capped brood that had been in the bottom of the hive, since there weren't any eggs or larvae of queen-rearing age down there (I removed any QCs they had made as we went).  I made sure they had several frames of honey since they won't have many foragers for a while.  The rest of the brood I put in the freezer.  I'll uncap it and feed it to the chickens.  We got 5 or 6 frames of capped honey out of the deal for ourselves, and the rest of the uncapped honey I'll spread around the yard for the other bees to cap.  Thanks to everyone who helped out with this.       

Thanks for the update. Sounds like a smooth job that was well done Reagan! I am a little confused so help me please as I have some questions because I'm not totally clear most likely: The first; what does the abbreviation BIAS represent perhaps 'Bees In Adult Stage; or something else?   :grin:

The second: Being you went this far to rid yourself of this type of 'mean' bee, why did you leave 'any' capped brood, or 'bees' of any type or stage in this hive?
Quote
I left 'them' with most of the capped brood that had been in the bottom of the hive, since there weren't any eggs or larvae of queen-rearing age down there.
Who is them? Wasn't it your goal to completely eliminate this hive of mean bees? And since these larva will most likely 'grow up' with the same mean genes, aren't you concerned you will have a small force of 'meaniens' flying around your yard when they become of age?
 
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14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

 

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