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Author Topic: Another Mean Hive  (Read 3581 times)

Online The15thMember

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Another Mean Hive
« on: June 09, 2023, 05:53:07 pm »
I caught a swarm sometime in April that I'm almost certain didn't come from my yard.  Two weeks ago when I inspected them, they were acting very testy.  I had some family in the bee yard with me, and I had to ask them to leave because the hive was getting too unruly for my comfort with inexperienced beekeepers there.  I had planned to requeen them today, but when I opened them up they were like a national defense force.  I couldn't even begin to inspect them, much less find a queen.  I was stung 5 times and chased out of the apiary halfway through the first box.  It was all I could do to replace the frames correctly and close them back up.  They were very reactive to my breathing; every time I exhaled my face was assaulted by about 150-200 bees.  I left all my gear up there, and I'll have to wait until it gets dark to get it because there were mean bees everywhere.  This hive is 4 8-frame mediums tall, and I did have the wherewithal to put my snelgrove board between boxes 2 and 3 to sort of halve them to help me manage them next time.

I've never had a hive act like this during a flow in early summer when everyone else is happy and working contently; they were completely unmanageable.  I'm not sure what I should do.  I'm not sure I can work them well enough to wait the 6 weeks it'll take to rotate the worker bees out, even if I could requeen them, since our summer flow is on and they will need supers.  I'm not keen on euthanizing them either, but I certainly don't want them to get worse when we hit the dearth at the end of the month.  What are my options?   
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline iddee

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Re: Another Mean Hive
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2023, 06:00:06 pm »
Contact  Lewis Cauble (828) 230-4544 Lewis.Cauble@ncagr.gov and ask him to come look at them.

https://www.ncbeekeepers.org/resources/apiary-inspection-program
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Online The15thMember

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Re: Another Mean Hive
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2023, 06:15:37 pm »
Contact  Lewis Cauble (828) 230-4544 Lewis.Cauble@ncagr.gov and ask him to come look at them.

https://www.ncbeekeepers.org/resources/apiary-inspection-program
Why, exactly?  What do you think may require an inspector? 
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Another Mean Hive
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2023, 06:19:24 pm »
This is one hive I would requeen.
Jim Altmiller
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
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Online The15thMember

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Re: Another Mean Hive
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2023, 06:21:30 pm »
This is one hive I would requeen.
Jim Altmiller
That's what I was trying to do today.  Any tips for how to find the queen in all this mess? 
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Another Mean Hive
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2023, 06:33:53 pm »
Put a double screen in between the bottom box and the one above it. Put a screen top with an entrance on each box above. Wait four days, the one with the eggs has a queen in it. If you don?t have screen tops with entrances, use double screens and shims to make entrances. Wait four days, yo may have the queen in boxes 3 & 4.
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Another Mean Hive
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2023, 06:34:53 pm »
If she is in the top two boxes, put them in a new location.
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

Offline Occam

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Re: Another Mean Hive
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2023, 07:17:17 pm »
That's a challenging one to deal with, I'm interested in how things go moving forward
Entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity

Offline iddee

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Re: Another Mean Hive
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2023, 08:03:26 pm »
Lewis will go into the meanest hive and check it completely. If it is skunks or other outside influences, he will recognize them. If you want to requeen it, he will do that for you. Then he will take a sample and check for Africanization. If he can't find the problem, he will get Don Hopkins to come out. Whatever it takes, he will get the problem solved.

AND IT"S FREE.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Another Mean Hive
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2023, 08:08:55 pm »
Lewis will go into the meanest hive and check it completely. If it is skunks or other outside influences, he will recognize them. If you want to requeen it, he will do that for you. Then he will take a sample and check for Africanization. If he can't find the problem, he will get Don Hopkins to come out. Whatever it takes, he will get the problem solved.

AND IT"S FREE.

That is awesome!
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Online The15thMember

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Re: Another Mean Hive
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2023, 08:14:35 pm »
Lewis will go into the meanest hive and check it completely. If it is skunks or other outside influences, he will recognize them. If you want to requeen it, he will do that for you. Then he will take a sample and check for Africanization. If he can't find the problem, he will get Don Hopkins to come out. Whatever it takes, he will get the problem solved.

AND IT"S FREE.
I'll keep that in mind.  I would like to try and deal with it myself if I can, but I'll keep that in my back pocket in case I can't. 
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline iddee

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Re: Another Mean Hive
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2023, 09:53:19 pm »
I don't understand. If you don't want help with your beekeeping problems, why are you on the forums? I thought it was to get assistance when you needed it. I have kept bees since 1976 and I still use our state inspectors. They are great to work with and never have I heard a bad report on any one of them. Your taxes pay for the state inspection program, so why not use it.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

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Re: Another Mean Hive
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2023, 12:20:37 am »
I don't understand. If you don't want help with your beekeeping problems, why are you on the forums? I thought it was to get assistance when you needed it. I have kept bees since 1976 and I still use our state inspectors. They are great to work with and never have I heard a bad report on any one of them. Your taxes pay for the state inspection program, so why not use it.
Not that I'm required to, but I will attempt to explain at least some of my apparently deranged-seeming reasoning to you.  I don't question Mr. Cauble's ability.  I have listened to every episode of his podcast, and he seems like a consummate professional.  But part of my family's goals on our homestead is to be as self-sufficient as possible, which means I would prefer to learn to deal with fairly common beekeeping problems, like a nasty hive, on my own.  This is one reason why I'm not a member of a bee club, and it's why I would prefer not to put my family through the hassle of having to call the bee inspector out, which would inevitably require a huge interruption to our already very busy schedule.  If I found I couldn't handle a situation, I would certainly contact the professionals who have the resources to assist me, but until I personally feel that point has come, I will proceed to the best of my ability on my own.   

I find it interesting to say the least that you feel comfortable posting something so insulting over here on Beemaster, but yet don't post such things on your own forum, where I also posted this, and not a single person has helped me.       
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Online The15thMember

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Re: Another Mean Hive
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2023, 12:22:27 am »
If anyone has any more helpful advice, I'd like to hear it.
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline iddee

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Re: Another Mean Hive
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2023, 07:26:40 am »
Didn't mean to be insulting. I just don't understand why you seek advice from total strangers, but not from professionals. I apologize if you took it that way. As for my forum, I didn't see it there, or I would have posted there. I promote the N.C. inspectors as often as I can.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2023, 11:06:31 am by iddee »
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Another Mean Hive
« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2023, 07:37:19 am »
Quote
The15thMember
"I don't question Mr. Cauble's ability.  I have listened to every episode of his podcast, and he seems like a consummate professional.  But part of my family's goals on our homestead is to be as self-sufficient as possible, which means I would prefer to learn to deal with fairly common beekeeping problems, like a nasty hive, on my own.  This is one reason why I'm not a member of a bee club, and it's why I would prefer not to put my family through the hassle of having to call the bee inspector out, which would inevitably require a huge interruption to our already very busy schedule.  If I found I couldn't handle a situation, I would certainly contact the professionals who have the resources to assist me, but until I personally feel that point has come, I will proceed to the best of my ability"

Put a double screen in between the bottom box and the one above it. Put a screen top with an entrance on each box above. Wait four days, the one with the eggs has a queen in it. If you don?t have screen tops with entrances, use double screens and shims to make entrances. Wait four days, yo may have the queen in boxes 3 & 4.

If she is in the top two boxes, put them in a new location.


In this case, I would go with the above suggestions of Beemaster2.. 'Then', when you find the queen in the new moved location, go ahead and mark her.

If the hive still does not calm down after moving, replace her. If marked she will be easier to locate the next time. I have found marking to be helpful when a queen is the same color as the rest of the workers, 'if the queens color is reverent in this case'..

Phillip
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Online The15thMember

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Re: Another Mean Hive
« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2023, 12:43:03 pm »
Didn't mean to be insulting. I just don't understand why you seek advice from total strangers, but not from professionals. I apologize if you took it that way. As for my forum, I didn't see it there, or I would have posted there. I promote the N.C. inspectors as often as I can.
Thank you for your apology, Wally; it means a great deal to me.  I suppose I don't view the beekeepers here and on your forum as total strangers.  I've learned through experience that the advice that members, including yourself, have given me on Beemaster and WWB is valuable and trustworthy, and I don't need any more help than what has been provided for me online.  But rest assured that if I ever do require the services of a bee inspector, I won't hesitate to call Mr. Cauble.

In this case, I would go with the above suggestions of Beemaster2.. 'Then', when you find the queen in the new moved location, go ahead and mark her.

If the hive still does not calm down after moving, replace her. If marked she will be easier to locate the next time. I have found marking to be helpful when a queen is the same color as the rest of the workers, 'if the queens color is reverent in this case'..

Phillip

     
All right, here's what I think I'm going to do.  As I mentioned, I have my Snelgrove board splitting the hive in half already, so sometime next week I'll just take the top section and move it to another stand.  I've already made up my mind about this queen, so I'm going to find her and dispatch her.  Then I'll give both halves a frame of eggs from one of my nice queens.  This hive wasn't any trouble when they were small, so hopefully this way they'll be manageable until the new workers cycle in.   
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Another Mean Hive
« Reply #17 on: June 10, 2023, 01:40:21 pm »
Quote
All right, here's what I think I'm going to do.  As I mentioned, I have my Snelgrove board splitting the hive in half already, so sometime next week I'll just take the top section and move it to another stand.  I've already made up my mind about this queen, so I'm going to find her and dispatch her.  Then I'll give both halves a frame of eggs from one of my nice queens.  This hive wasn't any trouble when they were small, so hopefully this way they'll be manageable until the new workers cycle in.   


Sounds like a good plan to me.  :grin:

I look forward to your updates..


2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline Occam

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Re: Another Mean Hive
« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2023, 03:07:20 pm »
In regards to re-queening a mean hive. You need to bring in a queen with different genetics or eggs with different genetics right? Letting the hive raise a new queen from her genetics won't make a difference, or can a new queen raised from the mean queen's genetics still be nice?
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Offline iddee

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Re: Another Mean Hive
« Reply #19 on: June 10, 2023, 03:31:49 pm »
Occam, genetic meanness normally comes from the drones, so yes, a queen from the same hive can be very gentle, if she mates with drones from a gentle queen.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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