Cut-down split

[Duane]

On one split I had left a frame with multiple queen cells in, I soon noticed cells with about a dozen eggs in it.  So multiple cells don't guarantee it.  I added a frame of open brood, then a day or two later, found another hive with queen cells.  I added a frame with cells and a few days later saw the cells were still intact.  Can that work out, do the bees with the added frame protect the cells from the other bees?

I found the added queen cell tore up.  And multiple eggs in nearby cells.  Yesterday, 6 days later, and several weeks before the frame of brood would have a queen producing eggs, I had a swarm in a tree.  Figuring a queen in the bush is worth more than hoping against laying workers, I was going to do a shake out, and hive the swarm.  I was checking again and noticed single eggs laid in the proper position.  Trying to look closer, I was blowing on the bees trying to get them out of the way, and there was the queen!  So don't know what happened, but decided I'd let them be.

About 15 minutes later, before I would have finished the shake out, I heard the swarm take off.

[Ben Framed]

...
I have modified to show you my reserve of 300 built, (foundation-less brood frames), with starter strips ready to go. When I get low I simply put more together and restock.




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That is quite a stock of frames Phillip! ... is it my imagination, or did you go from "Zero" to "100" in keeping bees - in record time?

Nicely done!

Thanks Alan, I have had a lot of good help for a lot good folks like you all here.

I just looked back and realized that I made a typo error. What I meant to say is :Thanks Alan, I have had a lot of good help FROM a lot good folks like you all here.

[Ben Framed]

I have modified to show you my reserve of 300 built, (foundation-less brood frames), with starter strips ready to go. When I get low I simply put more together and restock.

I also use foundation-less frames.  I no longer can find the ones from kelley bees that are made for foundationless.  The current ones I got elsewhere, I am using their wedge to turn sideways.  Tedious and time consuming.  What type of frames do you use and how do you make the starter strips?  I'd like to get solid bottom boards to prevent the hive beetles from lurking there, but had never found any that way.

Duane I build deep frames from scratch. I always put a groove down the center of the top bar from side bar to side bar. That way I can insert plastic foundation for honey frames or use starter strips for foundation less brood frames. For brood frames, I simply rip strips to fit the top bar groove on my table saw. From there I use a 23 gage air nailer (pin nailer) adding a little glue in the groove, put the ripped strip in place and pin nail. Rigid and there to stay without cracking bar or strip.

[Duane]

Only suggestion I have is get ready to buy a queen. I have never found a better way to kill a good hive than removing all or most of the swarm cells. They make several because they know success is not 100%. 

Ok, yesterday, I see a swarm in the air which landed in the trees.  I noticed one box had a lot more activity than other boxes.  Later, I see less bees hanging out on the front.  Today, I go in and see less bees and find multiple capped queen cells with about three that had hatched out.  10 days ago, I had checked on them and they still had several frames of space available, of which they still do.  This hive, with queen, just happened to come from the mentioned one I had split off before.  It's almost like they planned on swarming and swarm they did.

So, what is happening, what is going to happen here.  Multiple capped cells, several hatched.  Is this a case where I should have removed all but one, or are they waiting to make sure the virgin queen comes back mated and will see that the rest are destroyed?  Have multiple swarms already left with the multiple hatched cells?

[Michael Bush]

http://bushfarms.com/beessplits.htm#cutdown

[TheHoneyPump]

Reading through this one gives me visions of the pet hamster on the running wheel, going hard and getting nowhere. 
Duane.  Take a step back.  Take a deep breath.  Now think, why are you doing this bee thing at all?  What are your beekeeping goals?  What is the vision, what do the hives look like and what does the apiary look like when you are in that happy place of those goals achieved?  Do you see it?  Do you got it?  Ok good, now steady yourself and take a clear step forward in that direction, one frame at a time one hive at a time.

[rast]

Good answer, But, last years post and Duane hasn't been seen since Feb.

[Michael Bush]

Last time I tore down a queen cell was... 1974 I think...

[tycrnp]

Last time I tore down a queen cell was... 1974 I think...

😂
I never have!

[tycrnp]

http://bushfarms.com/beessplits.htm#cutdown

Very informative. Thanks!

[guitarstitch]

Last time I tore down a queen cell was... 1974 I think...

😂
I never have!

Lucky you!  I tore one down in my first year of beekeeping.  I didn't know what else to do and went into panic mode.

Now I just kinda giggle and go get more boxes.

[Michael Bush]

Yes, my first queen cell was my first year of beekeeping.  I had read all the old beekeeping books by the guys raising comb honey who had a lot of hives and that was their method of swarm control.  I discovered it mostly just made hives queenless...

[Duane]

http://bushfarms.com/beessplits.htm#cutdown

In reviewing again, the only thing I see differently from what I did was I started with queen cells rather than time passing while they raised them.  But maybe you just need to make sure not too many bees to keep them from swarming again and again?

When dividing up, what's an adequate number of cells to average out a decent queen most of the time?

[Duane]

Reading through this one gives me visions of the pet hamster on the running wheel, going hard and getting nowhere. 
Duane.  Take a step back.  Take a deep breath.  Now think, why are you doing this bee thing at all?  What are your beekeeping goals?  What is the vision, what do the hives look like and what does the apiary look like when you are in that happy place of those goals achieved?  Do you see it?  Do you got it?  Ok good, now steady yourself and take a clear step forward in that direction, one frame at a time one hive at a time.

Can a vision and goal be, to understand bees slightly more?  For the sure enjoyment of curiosity?  As when my dad had asked me why I poked the bumble bee nest - to see what would happen! 

I would like to get to the point when I open up a box, see a situation, and know (at least with good odds) exactly what to do to solve it without having to close it up, go back to my notes, sleep on it, then the next day say, hmm, maybe I should have done such and such, but it's too late now.

And it's good when people tell me:  Sometimes it just happens no matter if you do everything correctly.  I'm just trying to figure out what the best case scenario is, compared to when things just happen.  When I leave multiple queen cells and get multiple swarms waving at me, that's hard to watch.  But if I know I left too many bees, I can fix it the next time.  Or if I don't leave enough cells and only bad queens hatch out and have a poor colony, I can know to leave more cells next time.  Or if I know sometimes things just happen but not usually, then I can just not worry about it.  That's my goal, (one that is), to know the difference.