Open mated Cordovan Italian Queens

[sethreign]

I just finished raising 4 Cordovan Italian queens from mother queens that appear to be pure mated (their workers and the 4 virgin queens are all Cordovan colored). Two of these virgin queens are in full-size hives and two are in nucs (I introduced them by inserting mature queen cells). I am fairly confident they will only have local drones to mate with so their workers should appear pretty much like my other local bees and their drones should all show Cordovan coloring.

My local bees have always been fairly nervous types, running on the combs and queens hiding, sometimes somewhat defensive (especially between flows), the new colonies of Cordovan Italians are quite a contrast. I open their hives, no smoke, none fly up to greet me. I lift their combs and they are practically immobile. I can work my way through the hive and the queen is even calmly laying away (simple to locate). What a delight. Next year I will see if they can produce and tolerate the mites like my local bees.

To produce some open mated Cordovan queens is a test I'm doing to see how the "Mutts" can produce and what other traits they will keep from their mothers. At least the queens are still a beautiful golden color. The fact that their workers won't be should make finding the queens, when desired, even easier.

[capt44]

It's almost impossible to find a pure bred bee.
They have to be artificial inseminated.
Then the sperm used must come from drones of pure stock which is very hard to do.
Remember honey bees are not native to North America.
They were brought here from Europe and those bees swarmed spreading across the country.

[don2]

If you live in an area where there are Ferrell bees, you will get a cross from what ever the dominant race is in your area, whether it is yours or the Ferrell bees. d2

[Colobee]

This raises an interesting question. I've been running the same "race" of bees (Buckfast)  here for ~30 years. It stands to reason that the drones have been crossing with the feral colonies for all that time.
 
Each year, the range of the subsequent drones increases at the same time that the "pure" gene pool is diluted even more. Every year - fresh "pure" drones ( from my regularly re-queen hives)  mating with the ferals, and every year those ferals spreading their influence, crossing with other  ferals.
 
It would seem that at some point in time,  a circumference around my area would have become dominated by mostly Buckfast genes. I know - constantly assaulted on all sides by the feral influence - but it seems that after a few (or some number of years), the nearby (as in drones mating with any queens raised from my own hives) gene pool would be primarily Buckfast???
 
Of course, this is only speculative. There are a few other beekeepers in the area, & their bees are likely making a similar contribution.

[don2]

sounds reasonable to me. But then again it is hard to guess how many of what has been out there for how long. d2

[OldMech]

   If your neighbors are using Buckfast, and their neighbors are as well, etc, then the genetics will begin to shift in that direction.
   In your case, you are adding the gene to the area with each generation that passes, but you have to remember that your neighbors bees, and feral bees from all around you are also having an influence.  This is why I often say that it is every beekeepers responsibility to BUY resistant queens..  It does not take many who use generic package queens to completely obliterate the efforts or those attempting to create resistant bees in their apiary locality.
   When you are being bombarded from all sides by feral and generic drones it is hard to make a big improvement..   Over the course of 30 years?  I would bet you have made a difference..  Cordovans are easy to spot..  do some beelining to find feral hives nearby, and see what their workers look like.

[dave1958]

While your logic about bee genetics shifting to the bucket is reasonable. however honeybees in their reproduction meiosis do a high amount of crossover in genetics( this is what I read, not personal knowledge). That means if the queen mates with one of her brothers their is less likely of passing a defective copy of a critical gene. It also means that traits that we desire like hygienic cleaning for mites, will be quickly diluted. So, you have to keep looking in each generation at that trait, rather than blindly grafting a queen based on her mother's history

[little john]

   If your neighbors are using Buckfast, and their neighbors are as well, etc, then the genetics will begin to shift in that direction.

Most likely there will indeed have been a shift towards some direction - but it won't have been towards 'Buckfast', as Buckfast is a hybrid - not a race - and therefore can never breed true, either as it's own genotype, or even as a phenotype (i.e. by 'reproduction' of any developed characteristics).

I'd suggest there could well have been a gradual shift towards whichever of the parental lines initially used to create those Buckfast bees has become dominant in your locality over time. But the Buckfast 'element' itself will - unfortunately - have been lost many generations ago.

LJ

[OldMech]

That means if the queen mates with one of her brothers their is less likely of passing a defective copy of a critical gene.

   No, it means the bees will remove those eggs from the cells and it will not become a bee.