I have some strange looking honey

[BeeMaster2]

When you smoke the hive and begin taking it apart the bees keeping the queens in their cells stop doing it and you have a bunch of queens emerging while you are in the hive.
Jim

[FlexMedia.tv]

Flex,
Are you saying your bees super swarm, swarming over and over until the mother hive is too weak to survive, every year before they die? That is a different problem all together.

Jim,
I'm not sure if that's what it is or not. I have several problems but every hive I have ever had has swarmed. I've done ton's of things to keep them from swarming except split the hive before. I was going to get help with that from this forum this year but I lost all my bees. I've added supers, fed them, not fed them, taken supers away, added supers and moved frames of brood to the upper level, etc. I haven't destroyed queen cells or clipped queen wings. Remember, I'm still learning and only been at this 6 years but I've never had a hive make it through winter...wrap or not, feed or not.

I've always used package bees but I have got them from several different locations, mail order and pick up from my local club. They have been helpful too. I've caught 2 swarms from the same location where my bees swarm, the tree RIGHT next to my hive. One died (I remember, I did split that one with newspaper) the other swarmed AGAIN and the rest of that hive died during the winter. I watched one of my hives swarm to that tree and within an hour all flew and took over the hive next to it. No lie! I have pictures of that somewhere.

I have wax moths every year because my hives are weak after they swarm. I've never seen a hive beetle. I look for bad brood I don't see them. I'll try to send some pictures of queen cells when I add supers. I have a lot of problems but my biggest is swarming. I'll kill all the bacteria by our method and start all over again. Destroy the left over honey frames? I do have one package order coming. After 6 years and few thousand dollars, that's all I can afford right now!

[FlexMedia.tv]

Hives look like two mediums.  Too small for overwintering in MI.  If you are buying bees and they swarm in the first year they don't stand much of a chance to survive the winter.  You are doing something or not doing something that causes them to swarm.  Just to recap on a new hive.  You can't take a drop of honey until you have two solid boxes of honey above a two box brood chamber.  If you try to feed them through winter I predict they will fail every time.
Being next to a lake that gets fogged in regularly is not ideal.

I don't take any honey, ever from my hives. There's never any honey to take! That fermented honey I took? that was one frame from the 3rd super. The rest of the super was empty. I had 4 supers on. 2 were empty. That's why I winterized with just that brood box and a super of honey. I was told not to add another super for the winter if it's empty? So I put a bee blanket on and fed them.

That picture was usual with the fog cuz it was the first hot day. I picked that spot from advise from this forum. Nice lake with a gradual entrance. Partial sun and shade, mostly shade. Hives face South. Apple orchard 3 miles away with plenty of farm fields. No other beekeepers for miles. Elevated hive on stands for skunks. Tilted for winter drainage. Two entries for air flow.

I dunno! I'll keep trying (see above post) I'm too old to quit! <grin!>

[FlexMedia.tv]

the location looks too moist to me, too.

honey was too moist. harvested too early or stored not fittingly. one or two days in the comb at your lake-site before extracting or letting it sit around in a strainer will do it, too. I got a moist environment, too. I use an air-dehydrater now, cause I cant extract that fast.

Actually it's pretty dry. That was a bad pic with fog from the land as the first hot day. I didn't harvest any honey. I never have a chance! That was a solo frame from the 3rd super that otherwise was empty. I really do need to study up on varroa mite control. I have been eyeballing it cuz I don't know much about controlling them anyway. I'll send a close up eyeball...does look clean but I know that's deceiving...

[FlexMedia.tv]

Flex,
Are you saying your bees super swarm, swarming over and over until the mother hive is too weak to survive, every year before they die? That is a different problem all together.

Jim,
I'm not sure if that's what it is or not. I have several problems but every hive I have ever had has swarmed. I've done ton's of things to keep them from swarming except split the hive before. I was going to get help with that from this forum this year but I lost all my bees. I've added supers, fed them, not fed them, taken supers away, added supers and moved frames of brood to the upper level, etc. I haven't destroyed queen cells or clipped queen wings. Remember, I'm still learning and only been at this 6 years but I've never had a hive make it through winter...wrap or not, feed or not.

I've always used package bees but I have got them from several different locations, mail order and pick up from my local club. They have been helpful too. I've caught 2 swarms from the same location where my bees swarm, the tree RIGHT next to my hive. One died (I remember, I did split that one with newspaper) the other swarmed AGAIN and the rest of that hive died during the winter. I watched one of my hives swarm to that tree and within an hour all flew and took over the hive next to it. No lie! I have pictures of that somewhere.

I have wax moths every year because my hives are weak after they swarm. I've never seen a hive beetle. I look for bad brood I don't see them. I'll try to send some pictures of queen cells when I add supers. I have a lot of problems but my biggest is swarming. I'll kill all the bacteria by our method and start all over again. Destroy the left over honey frames? I do have one package order coming. After 6 years and few thousand dollars, that's all I can afford right now!

Jim,
When I see these what I think are queen cells, I start making room BUT they refuse to go up a super even when I pull a frame of brood. THEN the wax moth occupy the 3rd super I add. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FlexMedia.tv]

Hives look like two mediums.  Too small for overwintering in MI.  If you are buying bees and they swarm in the first year they don't stand much of a chance to survive the winter.  You are doing something or not doing something that causes them to swarm.  Just to recap on a new hive.  You can't take a drop of honey until you have two solid boxes of honey above a two box brood chamber.  If you try to feed them through winter I predict they will fail every time.
Being next to a lake that gets fogged in regularly is not ideal.

I don't take any honey, ever from my hives. There's never any honey to take! That fermented honey I took? that was one frame from the 3rd super. The rest of the super was empty. I had 4 supers on. 2 were empty. That's why I winterized with just that brood box and a super of honey. I was told not to add another super for the winter if it's empty? So I put a bee blanket on and fed them.

That picture was usual with the fog cuz it was the first hot day. I picked that spot from advise from this forum. Nice lake with a gradual entrance. Partial sun and shade, mostly shade. Hives face South. Apple orchard 3 miles away with plenty of farm fields. No other beekeepers for miles. Elevated hive on stands for skunks. Tilted for winter drainage. Two entries for air flow.

I dunno! I'll keep trying (see above post) I'm too old to quit! <grin!>

Acebird,
Here?s one of the swarm that left one hive and took over the one next to it




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FlexMedia.tv]

the location looks too moist to me, too.

honey was too moist. harvested too early or stored not fittingly. one or two days in the comb at your lake-site before extracting or letting it sit around in a strainer will do it, too. I got a moist environment, too. I use an air-dehydrater now, cause I cant extract that fast.

Actually it's pretty dry. That was a bad pic with fog from the land as the first hot day. I didn't harvest any honey. I never have a chance! That was a solo frame from the 3rd super that otherwise was empty. I really do need to study up on varroa mite control. I have been eyeballing it cuz I don't know much about controlling them anyway. I'll send a close up eyeball...does look clean but I know that's deceiving...

BlackForrest,
Of course I don?t know what I?m looking for but can you see any varroa mites? Can you tell if most of those are drones?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[blackforest beekeeper]

flex, you REALLY need to study up on bees. or let the bees be in other hands and give up on it.
there are no drones on that comb.

[Acebird]

Jim,
When I see these what I think are queen cells, I start making room BUT they refuse to go up a super even when I pull a frame of brood. THEN the wax moth occupy the 3rd super I add. 

When you see queen cells it is too late.  Even the most experienced beekeeper can not stop them from swarming.  At this point you split and make more hives.
Your problem is not disease or mites.  By your own words it is swarming.  That means you are doing something wrong or you are not doing something right at the right time.
I am sure this advice is contrary to any other advice but stop the dang feeding.  You should have more then enough drawn comb after 6 years that you don't need to.  If you need to feed then your location does not have enough nectar to support bees.  If that is the case you are beating your head against the wall.  It is much harder to get timing right when you feed unless you are selling your bees off.  With drawn comb I would expect your hives to grow to 6 or 7 boxes high, minimum in one season without feeding.
The only other problem I see is apples.  Apples are a mono crop that is heavily sprayed.  However poisons and pesticides do not cause swarming.
Concentrate on only one hive.  No point in continually throwing money at the hobby.

[FlexMedia.tv]

By your own words it is swarming.  That means you are doing something wrong or you are not doing something right at the right time.
I am sure this advice is contrary to any other advice but stop the dang feeding. 

Good advice...better advice than giving up...
I do think if I can stop the swarming, I will be ok. That's what I'll concentrate on this year with the one hive. Also, I live where my bees are now. Still dealing with Multiple Myeloma Cancer BUT I'm not on chemo right now so I can at least move! Hey! thanks for staying with me all these years. (I may post every day but we will get it right this time!

[FlexMedia.tv]

That is one tablespoon of Clorox per gallon of water. Ringer all of the combs and frames in it and let them dry. This will kill any bacteria on the surfaces.
Jim Altmiller

Jim,
I'm going out to rinse them in Clorox water now. In the past, I would just throw away the frames and get new ones but that's getting expensive. What about if there are frames of honey left? Keep them? Freeze them for the wax moths? Or dump them? I have used them in swarm traps until somebody told me not to.
Thanks,
Art

[blackforest beekeeper]

Jim,
When I see these what I think are queen cells, I start making room BUT they refuse to go up a super even when I pull a frame of brood. THEN the wax moth occupy the 3rd super I add. 

When you see queen cells it is too late.  Even the most experienced beekeeper can not stop them from swarming.  At this point you split and make more hives.
Your problem is not disease or mites.  By your own words it is swarming.  That means you are doing something wrong or you are not doing something right at the right time.
I am sure this advice is contrary to any other advice but stop the dang feeding.  You should have more then enough drawn comb after 6 years that you don't need to.  If you need to feed then your location does not have enough nectar to support bees.  If that is the case you are beating your head against the wall.  It is much harder to get timing right when you feed unless you are selling your bees off.  With drawn comb I would expect your hives to grow to 6 or 7 boxes high, minimum in one season without feeding.
The only other problem I see is apples.  Apples are a mono crop that is heavily sprayed.  However poisons and pesticides do not cause swarming.
Concentrate on only one hive.  No point in continually throwing money at the hobby.

the idea of swarming as a cause of hive death seems absurd to me. swarming is a natural thing to happen. the parent hive will easily build up again. that is the way mother nature has set it up for the bees.
swarming happens in spring.
if it might be understood: swarming will not kill all hives 6 years in a row. thats plain ridiculous.
absconding in late summer or fall is another thing completely and will have its reasons in mites mostly.

so...
flex doesn`t do any swarm-prevention or hindering swarms. that will give less honey, no doubt.
btw: giving more room with swarm cells won`t help you a bit.
also, LOOKING for mites on the combs or bees is not the right thing. once you see mites, even "only" one or two, it might be too late already. there are thousands of mites in that hive then already. they sit on the underside of the bees, well hidden. you might not even see them if you turned the bees around. you just got lucky to have seen a mite or two being on its way to somewhere else.
do alcohol washes or use screened bottoms with drawers underneath. and know how to interpret what you see and count and know how to react - according to the state the bees are in and/or season.
if you don`t know drones from workers, DO read up on the whole subject of bees. you got some serious gaps in your knowledge! I am saying this on behalf of the bees.

btw:
some caugt a swarm and kept it without treatment. those "feral" bees (might not be feral at all) start with a low mite load - for the reason of the swarming process, s. above - and might make it one yeear and thru the first winter. after that they might not any more.

[BeeMaster2]

BFB,
With no SHBs around, hives swarming over and over are probably not a problem. Here when a hive swarms the, SHBs act like they own the hive and wander around un harassed. It takes a few days for the bees to get back to corralling them and start removing their eggs and larvae. When the hive swarms over and over, the number of bees gets low and the SHBs end up winning the race and slime the hive. I have witnessed this with my observation hive on 2 occasions.
Jim Altmiller

[FlexMedia.tv]

the idea of swarming as a cause of hive death seems absurd to me. swarming is a natural thing to happen. the parent hive will easily build up again. that is the way mother nature has set it up for the bees.
swarming happens in spring.

I agree.  It is natural. I haven't seen any swarming in the Spring here. The only swarming I have seen happens the last week of June. Almost like clockwork. I have never seen a swarm that didn't happen in the same big tree Just to the West of my hives. The swarms that I caught was in that tree. The swarm the exited one hive and took over the other hive, went to that tree for an hour. It's so regular in June that I set up my GO PRO cameras and wait. I have filmed a few. It might be because I only use package bees and I install them when they come from our Club Late May.

if it might be understood: swarming will not kill all hives 6 years in a row. thats plain ridiculous.
absconding in late summer or fall is another thing completely and will have its reasons in mites mostly.

You are correct. I need to learn mite control.  I have several chemicals from different manufactures, that I was shy to use, couldn't figure out how to use, Cancer took over my body and I almost died, then when I was healthy it was too late for this year. I DID sugar shake my hives but I don't know if that was effective or not.


flex doesn`t do any swarm-prevention or hindering swarms. that will give less honey, no doubt.
btw: giving more room with swarm cells won`t help you a bit.

I've been told that helped so I always start off with a brood box and two supers on the install and add another a month after.  I can stop doing that if that isnt the answer.


if you don`t know drones from workers, DO read up on the whole subject of bees. you got some serious gaps in your knowledge! I am saying this on behalf of the bees.

I DO know my drones.  I didn't finish the pictures of cells with 2 eggs my worker bees were laying for one story of why a hive died.  I lost a hive because I lost my queen. Someone on this forum told me my have may have several drone but no queen cells if a worker bee takes over the laying. I wanted your expert advice from that picture. I didn't see any drones or mites. You didn't see any drones or mites. I know mites can be on the underbellies. That was a hive I sugar shaked. What is your opinion on that?


some caugt a swarm and kept it without treatment. those "feral" bees (might not be feral at all) start with a low mite load - for the reason of the swarming process, s. above - and might make it one yeear and thru the first winter. after that they might not any more.

Agree. I have to use chemicals this year.

[blackforest beekeeper]

Hi Jim,

SHB! Yeah, we don`t have them. Quite another matter. Sure that flex does not have that problem, either.

Hi flex,

end of June is really late for a swarm. never heard of that around here! In my rather chilly home-site we MAY have swarming beginning end of May, running into June. usually not at all...
at the warmer site the bees are at they would be at it already if it wasn`?t for a cool and rainy spell we got at the moment. latest end of April till end of May.

Adding (too much) room doesn`t really help. You need to give ENOUGH room. they should not have to clog up the brood-nest with honey. still means one can save on room somewhat.
give a super with drawn comb when the hives are really broiling with bees when you open the lid, the lid all covered with bees and dropping off when you take it off.
give a super also, when flow comes in and the upper frames in the brood-boxes are filling. if you got cherries (lots) , bloom of cherry will be the time. otherwise... maybe dandelion? maybe canola? lots of maple?
if the bees don`t need it for their number or for storing honey, it is just a nuisance to them and it will stay empty (few bees running around).
I like to have my boxes broiling with bees up to the top. makes for dryer honey, too. Also like my supers full...not half empty combs in the extraction room.
at my home, I usually super not before mid-may, when forest-honey may start. at the other site, I supered on the 31st of March. cherry. So YOU will have to decide. no recipes there....
adding empty supers is useless.

your site is too moist. it won`t cause hive deaths, but a weak develepemnt in spring and fall. less honey, less fun.

you are probably right about the cause for late swarming: package bees over and over. when the hives grow large, take a couple brood-combs with bees to make a split. get a queen cell from somewhere so it will have a good queen.

treating with sugar is not enough. might as well pray (only). (like a priest in our valley once said to a lady asking him for advice: her garden wouldn`t produce, although she prayed all the time for it. so the priest looked at it and said: "it takes some manure, too.") I use organic acids only. no "chemicals". but do whatever is best and easiest for you.

I wish you good health, but to your bees, too! if you keep them, they are your responsibility.

[FlexMedia.tv]

Hi Jim,

SHB! Yeah, we don`t have them. Quite another matter. Sure that flex does not have that problem, either.

Hi flex,

end of June is really late for a swarm. never heard of that around here! In my rather chilly home-site we MAY have swarming beginning end of May, running into June. usually not at all...
at the warmer site the bees are at they would be at it already if it wasn`?t for a cool and rainy spell we got at the moment. latest end of April till end of May.

Adding (too much) room doesn`t really help. You need to give ENOUGH room. they should not have to clog up the brood-nest with honey. still means one can save on room somewhat.
give a super with drawn comb when the hives are really broiling with bees when you open the lid, the lid all covered with bees and dropping off when you take it off.
give a super also, when flow comes in and the upper frames in the brood-boxes are filling. if you got cherries (lots) , bloom of cherry will be the time. otherwise... maybe dandelion? maybe canola? lots of maple?
if the bees don`t need it for their number or for storing honey, it is just a nuisance to them and it will stay empty (few bees running around).
I like to have my boxes broiling with bees up to the top. makes for dryer honey, too. Also like my supers full...not half empty combs in the extraction room.
at my home, I usually super not before mid-may, when forest-honey may start. at the other site, I supered on the 31st of March. cherry. So YOU will have to decide. no recipes there....
adding empty supers is useless.

I think if I stop feeding them that may help. Even my wife is in agreement with that. She wants them to fend for themselves. When I first started every one told me to feed. They also said package bees don?t swarm the first year!

your site is too moist. it won`t cause hive deaths, but a weak develepemnt in spring and fall. less honey, less fun.

Really it?s not during the summer. I?ll send you pics even by the lake. It?s pretty dry.

you are probably right about the cause for late swarming: package bees over and over. when the hives grow large, take a couple brood-combs with bees to make a split. get a queen cell from somewhere so it will have a good queen.

treating with sugar is not enough. might as well pray (only).
I promise  I will learn that!

I wish you good health, but to your bees, too! if you keep them, they are your responsibility

This is the year! Thank you for staying with me on this. May you Acebird Black Forest will spend the time. That would be nice. BTW what do you think about Garden hive screen bottom boards. Every year I have wax moths eggs on the bottom

[blackforest beekeeper]

I have screened bottoms.

wax moths get to be a problem with too little bees in too much room.

summer is not the problem. (early) spring and (late) fall is.

[Acebird]

the idea of swarming as a cause of hive death seems absurd to me. swarming is a natural thing to happen. the parent hive will easily build up again. that is the way mother nature has set it up for the bees.
swarming happens in spring.
if it might be understood: swarming will not kill all hives 6 years in a row. thats plain ridiculous.

Must be different in the mother land...
Swarming can occur through out the whole flying season right up until the end of golden rod.  A swarm in the fall is suicide but still happens to managed hives.  Mother nature is cruel.  Swarming can kill a parent hive very easily if it dwindles the hive late in the season or during a dearth.  This can happen if the beekeeper is creating a false flow with sugar.  Bees are not pets.  You can't take care of them like a dog or a cat.

[Acebird]

When the hive swarms over and over, the number of bees gets low and the SHBs end up winning the race and slime the hive.

Jim, it doesn't matter whether it is SHB, wax moth, varoa or robbing.  If a hive swarms over and over and the beekeeper is not right there to down size the hive and reduce the entrance it is pretty much doomed is a short period of time.  A managed hive must be expanded and contracted with critical timing.  A natural hive never does expand or contract.  But natural hives are usually small in comparison to managed hives.

[blackforest beekeeper]

the idea of swarming as a cause of hive death seems absurd to me. swarming is a natural thing to happen. the parent hive will easily build up again. that is the way mother nature has set it up for the bees.
swarming happens in spring.
if it might be understood: swarming will not kill all hives 6 years in a row. thats plain ridiculous.

Must be different in the mother land...
Swarming can occur through out the whole flying season right up until the end of golden rod.  A swarm in the fall is suicide but still happens to managed hives.  Mother nature is cruel.  Swarming can kill a parent hive very easily if it dwindles the hive late in the season or during a dearth.  This can happen if the beekeeper is creating a false flow with sugar.  Bees are not pets.  You can't take care of them like a dog or a cat.

there may very well be differences in climate.
one other thing which is overlooked a lot is an inhomogenious breed of bees in ones posession. it serves for a pro-longed swarming period. my bees are usually done with it in 4 weeks at the most. I don`t lift an excluder afterwards any more. from other beeks I hear of swarming-seasons which last 6 or sometimes 8 weeks.