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Author Topic: Should I Split Hive Or add more Boxes  (Read 2942 times)

Offline hrtull

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Should I Split Hive Or add more Boxes
« on: March 29, 2019, 05:09:53 pm »
I have had a long lang top bar hive for 3 years.  The hive progressively got more and more defensive/ aggressive.  As soon as you gently opened the top they were in your face.  Last spring I did a split from this hive  and added new queen.  Did this in a standard lang with lower brood box and added a super later.  This hive is pleasant to work with.  The long lang did not survive the winter do to a mouse infestation, not doing top bars again.   The split from last spring is doing very good  now.  I did not harvest any honey last fall or feed them and they wintered well.  Before winter there were  a small amount of hive beetles present.  I  have had the swiffer pad trap per plan on bottom board for 2 days and only trapped a few  beetles.  It was cool here so I took a quick look and not much beetle activity. That is  the background information and here are my questions.  Am I taking a chance doing a split this spring with hive beetles present . Can I add another brood box and move super to top without doing split this year.  It would end up being from bottom to top, existing tall brood box with brood, add a new tall brood box with  new foundation frames, move existing  medium super with a mixture of brood and honey to top. Then a add medium super as season progresses. Then next year do splits.   If I do stack what would be the best combination.  Thanks for any advice, HRTULL
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Offline iddee

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Re: Should I Split Hive Or add more Boxes
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2019, 10:40:25 pm »
Do one box at a time, either brood or super. Once it is full, add the other. Bottom super the brood box, meaning put it on the bottom board. Don't split the brood away from the stores. Once the brood and queen in in the bottom box, then add the super on top for honey.
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Offline TheHoneyPump

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Should I Split Hive Or add more Boxes
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2019, 01:16:41 am »
I would give them everything they need right now to have a massive nest (pollen/sub) and then split in 3 1/2 weeks. 
Two hives are always better than one.  Four is self sustaining.

All that said, the answer to your question on whether to do it or not is dependant on your answer to this question:  Do you want honey or bees this year?
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When the lid goes back on, the bees will spend the next 3 days undoing most of what the beekeeper just did to them.

Offline iddee

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Re: Should I Split Hive Or add more Boxes
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2019, 03:27:13 am »
THP, you don't have SHB. He does. Give them both right now will likely kill his hive.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline hrtull

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Re: Should I Split Hive Or add more Boxes
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2019, 12:02:45 pm »
Thanks for your replies.  I dont know enough about SHB.  If you split with a small population of SHB can they out produce the bees ability to defend themselves.  THP, this year I am more interested in increasing hive population than honey production. Waiting on good weather to do a thorough inspection .
       So iddee,  I want to make clear on stacking boxes.  I believe this is what you are suggesting.   My existing configuration is a tall brood box with a medium super on top, both  boxes are active with bees, frames etc.  Just add another box on top. When this 3rd box on top is full  relocate it to bottom board and add  a 4th box to top.  Thanks to both, HRTULL
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Should I Split Hive Or add more Boxes
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2019, 01:37:15 pm »
hrtull
I am sending a PM to you.
Phillip

On second thought, I will make it public.  I would suggest watching Joe May,  YOUtube  Little bits honey bees.
he has a beginner series that should help you in more ways than one. Also David at Baarnyard bees and Don the Fat Bee man have very good information. Good luck!!
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Offline iddee

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Re: Should I Split Hive Or add more Boxes
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2019, 01:56:00 pm »
You can add the deep either on top or put it on the bottom now. If you put it on top, move it to the bottom before they fill it with honey. They want the honey on top and brood below. The main thing I was saying is 1.. Don't give them too much space at once, and 2.. Keep the 2 boxes you now have together until night temps don't go below 60F.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Should I Split Hive Or add more Boxes
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2019, 01:59:25 pm »
Quote from: iddee on March 30, 2019, 01:56:00 pm
You can add the deep either on top or put it on the bottom now. If you put it on top, move it to the bottom before they fill it with honey. They want the honey on top and brood below. The main thing I was saying is 1.. Don't give them too much space at once, and 2.. Keep the 2 boxes you now have together until night temps don't go below 60F.

X 2
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2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline TheHoneyPump

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Re: Should I Split Hive Or add more Boxes
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2019, 02:58:46 pm »
I also need to learn up on the SHB.  What would be the challenges in this situation?
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When the lid goes back on, the bees will spend the next 3 days undoing most of what the beekeeper just did to them.

Offline iddee

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Re: Should I Split Hive Or add more Boxes
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2019, 03:03:21 pm »
Same as wax moth. More space than the bees can guard.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline hrtull

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Re: Should I Split Hive Or add more Boxes
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2019, 04:56:43 pm »
Thanks to all. I think what I will do is add a deep to the top,  then as advised, move to bottom at appropriate time.  Should be more simple to observe their initial activity.  I do understand keeping the  existing together, keeps the cluster intact for heat generation. I will watch the Youtube  information. Another rainy day in Ohio with freezing weather again for a few days. Thanks again to all of you.
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Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Should I Split Hive Or add more Boxes
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2019, 06:31:55 pm »
Quote from: TheHoneyPump on March 30, 2019, 02:58:46 pm
I also need to learn up on the SHB.  What would be the challenges in this situation?
THP,
Hopefully you will not have a problem especially if you do not have any one bringing in bees from down south. In your climate the SHB cannot survive your winter out side of a hive. If you ever get them bee sure to squish every one you see.
Jim Altmiller
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Offline TheHoneyPump

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Re: Should I Split Hive Or add more Boxes
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2019, 03:29:22 am »
I was referring to hrtull situation as presented.  What would be the SHB concerns and best way to manage it.
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When the lid goes back on, the bees will spend the next 3 days undoing most of what the beekeeper just did to them.

Offline ed/La.

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Re: Should I Split Hive Or add more Boxes
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2019, 08:52:28 am »
With a split it takes 16 days for queen to hatch 10 more before she starts laying and 21 for 1st worker to emerge. I recommend a nuc A few frames of brood and bees with some pollen and honey They will make 4 or 5 queen cells. If your nights are warm enough you could harvest a few and put in 2 or 3 frame nuc at around day 14. You have now built a queen bank. Once they have successful mated your split options are better. You have mated queens to save 26 some odd days before you have emerging brood. Much easier to do with more than 1 hive to rob from but doable.
 
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Offline FloridaGardener

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Re: Should I Split Hive Or add more Boxes
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2019, 11:45:55 pm »
Re: SHB. 

I have top-bar hives with SBB and a tray underneath that screen to help stop SHB cycle.  I keep a USB-charged keyboard vac in my bee kit.  If I can't squish a SHB because it hides in the foundationless comb, then I reach for the tinyvac.  Tinyvac always wins!  Then I shut it off & flip a piece of tape over its nozzle until I need it again. 

When I'm done with inspection I use the shopvac to clean out the tinyvac's resevoir.  I see only one or two max SHB when inspecting all 33 bars. Never been slimed.  Maybe huge apiaries can't take the time to keep the hive so clean, but it helps keep my bees healthy and treatment-free.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07KSXV6LK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Should I Split Hive Or add more Boxes
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2019, 10:04:24 am »
Quote from: ed/La. on March 31, 2019, 08:52:28 am
With a split it takes 16 days for queen to hatch 10 more before she starts laying and 21 for 1st worker to emerge. I recommend a nuc A few frames of brood and bees with some pollen and honey They will make 4 or 5 queen cells. If your nights are warm enough you could harvest a few and put in 2 or 3 frame nuc at around day 14. You have now built a queen bank. Once they have successful mated your split options are better. You have mated queens to save 26 some odd days before you have emerging brood. Much easier to do with more than 1 hive to rob from but doable.

Good information here ed. along with the others which have posted.  Interesting.
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2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
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