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Author Topic: Changing entrance size and bottom board.  (Read 6888 times)

Offline Stomp

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Changing entrance size and bottom board.
« on: January 01, 2018, 12:03:40 am »
Hello,

I constructed my first Langstroth during winter (Southern hemisphere) and installed a NUC 3 weeks ago into the brood box. Bees seem active and frames are filling up. I'm about to add the super box. I have an issue with the entrance size and need some advice.

I may have received some bad advice OR incorrectly heard/listened but when I purchased the new hive I was asked where I would get my new NUC from. I advised who was supplying the new NUC and was told this bee keeper liked to have the entrance reducer permanently put in place and that he didn't like large entrances. This proved to be false and was a misunderstanding.

Being new I took this information on board and so tacked in, and then painted the entrance reducer so it is permanent. The entrance to the hive is about 1/3 the size of normal. There are no bee traffic jams at the entrance yet but I wish to change what I've done and have a larger, normal entrance.

I've got 3 options that I can see;

1. Pushing the brood box back a few inches on the bottom board and using a chisel (and maybe a hammer) to remove the extra piece of wood I tacked in. This will then leave an unpainted section of wood on the bottom board that may be exposed to the elements and degrade quicker than the rest of the hive.

2. Lift the brood box onto a brand new bottom box with a normal entrance. Seems easy but I'm worried about squashing bees in the process.

3. Placing the current unused super box on the new bottom board and transferring current 8 frames in place over from the old brood box. Then using the old brood box to be the new super. I'm concerned that the bees have settled in and wont like a new bottom board and brood box at the same time.

Any advice on which option would be best for the bees appreciated.

Also any advice on how long I need to wait after painting before using new bottom board. The paint is currently dry but still has that newly painted smell.

Thanks,

Stomp


 

Offline 220

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Re: Changing entrance size and bottom board.
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2018, 05:35:30 am »
I would go with option 2, I think squashing a few bees is a fact of life if you are moving boxes.

Offline Acebird

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Re: Changing entrance size and bottom board.
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2018, 08:14:54 am »
Is the reducer nailed to the bottom board or the brood box?

1 Nailed to the BB:
slide the brood box back a couple of inches and pry off the reducer.  In a month replace the BB with the painted one.

2 Nailed to the brood box:
Tip the box up on its back side and pry off the reducer.  Then set the box back down on the BB.
Brian Cardinal
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Offline little john

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Re: Changing entrance size and bottom board.
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2018, 01:52:53 pm »
Like 220 - I'd be inclined to go with option #2.  To minimise the chance of squashing bees, either give 'em a puff of smoke and/or - rather than plonk the box straight down vertically - try and 'slide' it onto the base.  I use a half-sliding, half-rotating motion - it's a lot easier to do than to describe.  But if you're slow and gentle enough with your actions, the chances of squashing bees is usually minimal.  I find there's often one odd bee which makes a last minute suicide dash for the gap, just as you're about to close it ... but there's not a whole lot you can do about that sort of thing. 

LJ

Forgot to add ...

Paint:  I'm one of the few beekeepers I know of who paints both the inside and outside of boxes.  I usually allow the paint to 'weather' for about a week after becoming touch-dry before housing any bees - but even then, some boxes have still retained that 'new paint' smell.  But - residual smells don't seem to bother the bees that much, as I've never experienced any paint-related problems.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2018, 02:17:25 pm by little john »
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Offline Stomp

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Re: Changing entrance size and bottom board.
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2018, 10:48:35 pm »
Thanks for the advice. Very welcome.

The weather is dry at present so I'll lever/chisel off the tacked in piece of wood. Once the paint is dry and fume free on the new bottom box Ill replace that, maybe in a few weeks. My main fear was squashing some bees as it is a NUC.

Thanks,

Stomp

Offline coco

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Re: Changing entrance size and bottom board.
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2018, 11:17:38 pm »
Stomp, is there a specific type paint we use to paint the hive and could it be purchased at Bunnings?

Offline 220

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Re: Changing entrance size and bottom board.
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2018, 11:25:49 pm »
Stomp, is there a specific type paint we use to paint the hive and could it be purchased at Bunnings?

I just use exterior water based and look to see what they have in the miss tint pile.
Bunnings sell their miss tints for I think half price so a fair saving if they have something suitable.
I try and stick to very light colours given our summers.

Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Changing entrance size and bottom board.
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2018, 07:24:28 am »
Why remove the reducer. If you have 1/3 openings, like you said, the bees do not mind. I run mine a lot smaller than that all the time. Bees prefer a smaller opening so that they can protect the hive.
Jim
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Offline kanga

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Re: Changing entrance size and bottom board.
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2018, 08:08:50 am »
I would agree with Little John & 220, the sliding rotating method will reduce the squishing of bees to a minimum, and with a bit of care maybe nil.

Little John you are not alone in painting both sides of the box. It may be the seasonal conditions we experience but I have seen many examples of boxes with warped sides/ends which have only been painted on the outside.

Coco
Re what paint to use an old experienced beekeeper (who has written many articles re beekeeping) stated "if it doesn't hurt us then it won't hurt the bees".

Kev

Offline little john

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Re: Changing entrance size and bottom board.
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2018, 08:36:56 am »
I agree with Jim - smaller entrances are actually desirable, especially for smaller colonies - of course that's providing that traffic jams aren't taking place. 
BTW - if you ever need a larger entrance for a relatively short time (say, if a sudden serious flow starts) - Michael Bush has a good tip: to simply slide the top cover back just enough to create a small gap - or with a multi-box configuration, to position the upper box just 'off' the box below it - again, creating a small gap - which the bees will then happily use as a temporary upper entrance.

Kev - thanks for posting that !  I tend to receive a bit of flack for painting boxes both inside and out whenever I mention doing this - so it's really good to hear that others are doing the same, and for exactly the same reasons.

LJ
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Offline Stomp

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Re: Changing entrance size and bottom board.
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2018, 08:46:20 am »
Coco. I used a Dulax white water based exterior paint that has a UV protection. I dont favor Dulax over anything else, just was on special at the time at Mitre 10.

Sawdstmkr. I was quite OK with the 1/3 size opening but being new I caved in to differing opinions. I've now got the opening the same 1/3 as before but have to option of making it larger with the excluder/reducer being not tacked in.

little john. Thanks for MB advice. So simple but I would'nt have thought of that.

Stomp

Offline Acebird

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Re: Changing entrance size and bottom board.
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2018, 09:48:11 am »
For a nuc closing down the entrance will not matter but nailing in reducers limits your options on your equipment.  Why limit your options?
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Offline Skeggley

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Re: Changing entrance size and bottom board.
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2018, 09:15:11 pm »
1/3 of what? 10 frame or 8 frame?
Tom Seeley says the ideal entrance is 150 sq mm or about 1/2 an 8 frame body.
If the reduced entrance is a problem I'd swap the bottom board after all you will need more equipment anyway. ;)
Also, I'd be very surprised if after only installing a nuc 3 weeks ago they have completely filled it out and are ready for a new box.

Online max2

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Re: Changing entrance size and bottom board.
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2018, 12:33:21 am »
Our US friends may not know that Melbourne can get pretty warm - 40C on extreme days. In my opinion, a working hive likes the eatra ventilation a wide entrance offers on hot weather.
About Paint - I too paint on both sides. In our humid weather Hoop pine ( the preferred timber here) does not last without paint.
The paint I use is " RESENE"  - a hospital grade paint - very little smell.
A drop or two of Lemon Grass oil and she smells all sweet.

Offline Acebird

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Re: Changing entrance size and bottom board.
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2018, 08:56:01 am »
Tom Seeley says the ideal entrance is 150 sq mm
Something is wrong here.  This is less then 1/4 sq in.
Depending on the swarm size it should be 1 1/4 to 2 in hole.  Bees can't always find what they are looking for so they have to make compromises.
Brian Cardinal
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Offline Skeggley

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Re: Changing entrance size and bottom board.
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2018, 10:58:39 am »
Tom Seeley says the ideal entrance is 150 sq mm
Something is wrong here.  This is less then 1/4 sq in........

Ummm ok Ace, let me rephrase that, 15 sq cm. 
2.325 sq inches for you imperialists. ;)

Offline Acebird

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Re: Changing entrance size and bottom board.
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2018, 01:52:34 pm »
And that boils down to 1.72 dia hole if I did the math right.
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Offline Stomp

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Re: Changing entrance size and bottom board.
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2018, 06:56:32 pm »
Skeggley,

I'm going to swap the bottom board as suggested. The removed one wont be wasted. I hope I haven't added the super too early. I did so as 7 of the brood box frames were full. Two frames had just honey alone. The mat between lid and top of frames was also had a lot of wax on it. I don't want to be opening hive too frequently so provided a bit more room. Our garden is quite extensive with flowers. Maybe this has helped fill the lower frames quickly.

Stomp

Offline Skeggley

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Re: Changing entrance size and bottom board.
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2018, 10:28:10 am »
And that boils down to 1.72 dia hole if I did the math right.
Yes, or 43.7mm dia hole which is 150 sq mm as I originally stated.

@Stomp, my rule of thumb for adding another box has been drummed into me by one of my many online mentors,

Every frame has fully drawn comb, or at least 90% drawn comb - no huge gaps, and
Every frame is 80% full of honey, pollen or brood, and
Every frame is completely covered with bees.

Sometimes adding another box, brood or super, too early can set the bees back. Sounds like you were pretty close.
Having a garden full of flowers is great but not all flowers have nectar and from what I understand a single bee collects one match head of honey in its life, and that's a lot of regurgitated nectar! :)
Hope this helps.


Offline Acebird

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Re: Changing entrance size and bottom board.
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2018, 05:40:58 pm »
And that boils down to 1.72 dia hole if I did the math right.
Yes, or 43.7mm dia hole which is 150 sq mm as I originally stated.
I yie yie, a 43.7 mm dia hole would equal 1499.87 sq mm not 150.  Try google.
Brian Cardinal
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