Swarm prevention without splits?

[Aroc]

I know there are threads on here about this, but I?m too lazy to look for it.

I?m looking for swarm prevention ideas other than splitting.  We are maxed out at about 10 hives and really don?t want more if I can help it.  Not a lot of beerks around here to sell nucs or excessive bees to.

I know most will tell me just give more space but thought I?d ask to see if there were any other experiences out there.  Thanks in advance

[jalentour]

Michael Bush has some options for you.
http://bushfarms.com/bees.htm
See Experiment in swarm control.

[Donovan J]

I know there are threads on here about this, but I?m too lazy to look for it.

I?m looking for swarm prevention ideas other than splitting.  We are maxed out at about 10 hives and really don?t want more if I can help it.  Not a lot of beerks around here to sell nucs or excessive bees to.

I know most will tell me just give more space but thought I?d ask to see if there were any other experiences out there.  Thanks in advance

You can try to remove all of the swarm cells by scraping them off and scraping off any new ones that appear. I am a newbie and dont know much but that should suppress the problem in my opinion.

[SiWolKe]

I know there are threads on here about this, but I?m too lazy to look for it.

I?m looking for swarm prevention ideas other than splitting.  We are maxed out at about 10 hives and really don?t want more if I can help it.  Not a lot of beerks around here to sell nucs or excessive bees to.

I know most will tell me just give more space but thought I?d ask to see if there were any other experiences out there.  Thanks in advance

You can try to remove all of the swarm cells by scraping them off and scraping off any new ones that appear. I am a newbie and dont know much but that should suppress the problem in my opinion.

You have to do this once a week and I assure you, you will overlook a queencell hidden in the comb or they will swarm anyway, or they will become queenless.
I advise to educate yourself about swarm prevention and read Michael Bush.
You can combine through newspaper method and squish the older or worse queen if you are able to evaluate this. Do this squishing first and make the one part queenless and combine after 2 hours.

[van from Arkansas]

Aroc: but I?m too lazy to look for it.

Hey fella, you are a humble man.  I know of no way to exist in Montana and be lazy.  Not possible.  I used to lived in Mt, Bitterroot Valley.  Also, if you Aroc can raise bees in MT, and be successful as to worry about swarming then in this case, I think YOU should be advising ME.

To answer your question I can only add that young queens or queens breed to resists swarming {Buckfast} will help reduce swarming.  However, with that said, space, is the critical factor.  M. Bush covers the subject well and I suppose you read as suggested by friends over the pond.

[Donovan J]

I know there are threads on here about this, but I?m too lazy to look for it.

I?m looking for swarm prevention ideas other than splitting.  We are maxed out at about 10 hives and really don?t want more if I can help it.  Not a lot of beerks around here to sell nucs or excessive bees to.

I know most will tell me just give more space but thought I?d ask to see if there were any other experiences out there.  Thanks in advance

You can try to remove all of the swarm cells by scraping them off and scraping off any new ones that appear. I am a newbie and dont know much but that should suppress the problem in my opinion.

You have to do this once a week and I assure you, you will overlook a queencell hidden in the comb or they will swarm anyway, or they will become queenless.
I advise to educate yourself about swarm prevention and read Michael Bush.
You can combine through newspaper method and squish the older or worse queen if you are able to evaluate this. Do this squishing first and make the one part queenless and combine after 2 hours.

Alright thanks for the info.

[blackforest beekeeper]

There is quite a few (commercial) beeks in Germany that remove queen-cells in swarming-season on a 7-day schedule (I use a 6-day schedule, the cap faster once scraping has started).
But I do remove a comb or two of capped brood when they have cells, too. Others don?t, but leave them together. So it is possible.

In my experience what happens when this goes on for 3 or 4 weeks: the queen will diminish laying and the bees get lazy. If you can cope with this and your main flows are after swarming-season, that will do.

From what stinger tells, your place is similar to my home-place (not where I have most of the bees!). So scraping will do fine as you don`t have much swarming tendencies anyways.

I have never separated the brood from the rest tempporarily and recombine after two weeks or so. But a lot of beeks say it works.

[Vance G]

I bet you are wrong about not being able to find a home for spare home grown nucs!  People are crazy for survivor bees.  In spite of what you say, I advise you to pull the queen and the frame she is on and two more frames of brood and make a nuc or put two of these in a divided deep with a screen on the bottom and appropriate entrances and queen excluder to keep them separate.  Put a couple supers on the donor hive and set the nuc on top where it can get heated by the bottom colony.  The now queenless parent hive will raise a queen.  Your nuc with queen will start building up assisted by the heat from below.  You should plan on supering it!  When a month has gone by you should have a queenrite colony below and part of a honey crop.  If you indeed can't sell the nuc above, pinch that old queen and reunite the colonies to maintain your hive count.  You will have run a two queen system for a while is all.  Just make sure you keep room for expansion on both levels. 

[Michael Bush]

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesswarmcontrol.htm

[Ben Framed]

I bet you are wrong about not being able to find a home for spare home grown nucs!  People are crazy for survivor bees.  In spite of what you say, I advise you to pull the queen and the frame she is on and two more frames of brood and make a nuc or put two of these in a divided deep with a screen on the bottom and appropriate entrances and queen excluder to keep them separate.  Put a couple supers on the donor hive and set the nuc on top where it can get heated by the bottom colony.  The now queenless parent hive will raise a queen.  Your nuc with queen will start building up assisted by the heat from below.  You should plan on supering it!  When a month has gone by you should have a queenrite colony below and part of a honey crop.  If you indeed can't sell the nuc above, pinch that old queen and reunite the colonies to maintain your hive count.  You will have run a two queen system for a while is all.  Just make sure you keep room for expansion on both levels.

I like the idea and the clear explanation. Thanks for posting.
Phillip

[chux]

Check out Michael Bush's site. Lots of good info there. You can also find detailed information on Walt Wright's methods on beemaster.

I would urge you not to go the route of trying to remove queen cells as your form of swarm prevention. If you find queen cells, do a split by taking the old queen with a frame of capped brood and bees, a frame of honey, and a frame with pollen. Put them in a nuc and let them work. Leave two or three of the best looking swarm cells in the parent colony, and let them requeen. Go back about a month later to be sure that they were successful in getting a new laying queen. Then you can sell the old queen nuc, kill the old queen and recombine with parent colony, or let that Nuc grow. You've got options.

Problems with removing queen cells to prevent swarms. First, it's work intensive. You need go through every frame of the hive from top to bottom every week to be sure that you don't have any swarm cells. With more than a couple of hives, that is work. will your schedule allow it? Second, it's invasive. Because you must go through every frame in the hive every week, you are regularly interrupting the flow of the hive. When you close them back up, they are still worked up and have to repair comb and propolis seals.  Your honey production will likely suffer a bit. Third, it can cause queenlessness. It is possible to go through and remove swarm cells, only to find out that the old queen is already gone with a swarm. Or...the old queen could be failing to lay consistently, and you have removed not just swarm cells, but supercedure cells. In either case, you now have a hopelessly queenless hive. Fourth, it can be easy to miss a queen cell, and fail to prevent the swarm.

 
 

[Ben Framed]

chux X 2.  Check out Michael Bush's site. Lots of good info there. You can also find detailed information on Walt Wright's methods on beemaster.

[ed/La.]

Remove the queen and introduce her to hive  with weakest queen. This will give you a brood break reducing bee  numbers and mite count. You could treat for mites at this point if you desire. Even powdered sugar will help with little capped brood.  The nurse bees with less to do will become forage bees greatly increasing honey production. 2, If a swarm seems inevitable remove a few frames with queen and put in nuc. The queen less hive will not swarm without a queen.  If the nuc swarms you loose less bees. There is other options to.  Personally I  love doing splits.