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Author Topic: Lyson manual steam uncapper  (Read 9567 times)

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Lyson manual steam uncapper
« Reply #40 on: February 12, 2022, 04:02:57 pm »
Don't the bees repair any damage to the comb that had made during the uncapping process no matter the method chosen?
If a frame is left with high and low spots it more than likely will result in the frame next to it to have high and low spots.  Slicing the high spots off allows the beekeeper to place frames uniformly and more often then not the bees will draw the low spots out as opposed to drawing the near frame into the low spot.  There is no harm in picking the low spots of a frame with a fork as long as the high spots are sliced even with the top bar.  However you can reach the low spots with the curved tip of the hot knife so you don't have two tools to fumble with.

The only way to extract honey form a 'skinny comb/thin comb' is to uncap it; if we are using an extractor. If the low spots can not be reached by what ever method chosen for the initial uncapping; whether that method might be a Chain un-caper, Lyson Steam table, Hot Knife, Simple Harmony slide in preferated type, or Backward un-capper etc.  The skinny 'low' area will still have to be opened in order for the honey to be released, (such as a prick type fork for one example on said 'areas of the comb' which can not be reached by popular mechanical methods).

I am not sure but I 'assume' we are talking about the same thing, comb whose foundation is straight, only the bees failed to finish filling it out leaving it skinny or thin if you will, a bit low in some places, (yet capped). {Honey Combs such as I experienced at the 'end' of a flow last season}

Keeping the above explanation of reply 35 in mind, I am asking; As long as the foundation is straight, the bees should repair the damage where we uncapped it?  Building it back to proper shape and further building It out too proper thickness during a 'heavy upcoming flow'? Be it a flow the same season or a flow the next season? Especially if this same thin, extracted comb is placed next to a 'proper' 'fully developed' honey comb?
Under these circumstances, shouldn't we with confidence, be able to anticipate our bees repairing 'and' evening out this described thin comb to the proper thickness, along with any damage that might have occurred during the uncapping process?

Now; I would expect just the opposite if the honey comb in question was 'wonky', from a humble beginning of completely foundation-less frame for example, ('if' the foundation was built wonky from its very beginning).  It might be safe to assume such a frame of comb would most surely wind up wavy, leaving high and low spots that may not be repaired?  We are not talking about this type comb built on uneven foundation. Just the opposite...

Phillip
« Last Edit: February 13, 2022, 02:32:05 am by Ben Framed »
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14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Online Jim134

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Re: Lyson manual steam uncapper
« Reply #41 on: February 13, 2022, 06:10:48 am »
Now; I would expect just the opposite if the honey comb in question was 'wonky', from a humble beginning of completely foundation-less frame for example, ('if' the foundation was built wonky from its very beginning).  It might be safe to assume such a frame of comb would most surely wind up wavy, leaving high and low spots that may not be repaired?  We are not talking about this type comb built on uneven foundation. Just the opposite...

Phillip

 About 10 years before I left the USA... I get rid of a lot of wonky comb... Or you may call it ocean wave comb... I then to plastic foundations... All I can say they work well for me... When there was a honey flow on... When the nectar flows stopped.. The cone building went into a process. That I called drawing pipe comb... The bees were put down combs between 2 different foundations... And make  Walkie comb. All I do is scrape it off and start over again... Is the best way to get straight foundation on wax Foundation...  Put the foundation in the correct space. In the  frame... And wire it in so it was not crooked... And catch a swarm of bees... Is primed to build foundation..


              BEE HAPPY  Jim134   :smile:
« Last Edit: February 13, 2022, 06:29:18 am by Jim 134 »
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Lyson manual steam uncapper
« Reply #42 on: February 13, 2022, 12:38:23 pm »
Quote
Jim 134
I get rid of a lot of wonky comb... Or you may call it ocean wave comb...

I agree Jim 134, I do not think this type comb, wonky / wavy comb, derived from wavy foundation can be straightened out in a way to become uniform or handy to use (when using an extractor).
With this type comb I would do the same as you... "Get rid" of it.....

Phillip
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Online Lesgold

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Re: Lyson manual steam uncapper
« Reply #43 on: February 15, 2022, 06:46:03 pm »
The uncapper arrived this morning. It?s been unpacked and set up ready for its first run. I?ve got 4 boxes of honey that I just robbed from the bees. I will give a report in a few days as to how it performs.

Cheers

Les

Online Lesgold

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Re: Lyson manual steam uncapper
« Reply #44 on: February 16, 2022, 04:35:48 pm »
The uncapper was given a run yesterday with mixed results. The V knife on the uncapper is just under the internal width of a frame and due to its shape it moves the frame slightly as it passes over the knife. On the machine I purchased, the knife isn?t perfectly positioned and is about 1.5mm off centre. This means that one side of the frame often gets caught and won?t pass over the cutter.  I will fix the problem with a bit of work but I was disappointed that this error in manufacturing was allowed to occur. In saying that, the build quality was very good in general. The V knife has 3 height adjustment points. Winding a wing nut raises or lowers a corner of the cutter. A spring under each corner pushes the knife up and also acts as a shock absorber. When I adjusted the cutter to the correct depth for my frames, I ran out of spring tension. When I get a chance, I will pack out the springs with a couple of stainless washers. The cradle that the frame sits in is a little on the light side. It was slightly twisted and did not sit quite as it should initially. A bit of a flex and the problem was solved. That?s about all of the negatives from the construction perspective. As far as performance goes, the knife really does cut well. Fat frames pass through with ease. The slicing action of the cutter does an excellent job. As I run a double brood box, I am also pulling frames from this section of the hive as they back fill some of them with honey. The result of this means that some frames will contain pollen or will be older brood comb. I was surprised how well the knife handled these difficult frames. The next step for me is to come up with a work sequence that is going to suit my situation. Yesterday was slow, clumsy and very inefficient. I took over double the time to uncap and extract compared to my usual day. That is to be expected when a change in routine occurs and new equipment is being used for the first time. I am already thinking of improvements to the system and a few modifications to  the uncapping tray that I currently use. Will keep you guys posted.

Cheers

Les

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Lyson manual steam uncapper
« Reply #45 on: February 16, 2022, 04:52:56 pm »
No doubt that you will get everything squared up as needed. It is good to hear that the cutter went through the older Comb with ease. I for one am looking forward to more on this as things progress.. Keep up the good work Les!
 
Phillip






« Last Edit: February 18, 2022, 01:58:22 pm by Ben Framed »
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline NigelP

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Re: Lyson manual steam uncapper
« Reply #46 on: February 16, 2022, 06:22:15 pm »
I think you just summed up my first experience of the steam uncapper. It takes a bit of time to get it set up for the frames you are using but once done you should be in business. It doubled my extraction rate, in fact could have tripled it but would have needed a second centrifuge to take the extra frames as my table can only store 10 extracted frames whilst extracting 20 in the extractor. Means I extract the next 10 after centrifuge finished. )If that makes sense)
Only other tip is take it steady as knife needs to heat back up after each frame, only takes a few seconds, but I noticed it crimpled comb if I rushed it too fast.
Other thing to watch is to have it set a few mm  above the bottom bars as there is a tendency for it to try and cut into them as frames are never totally  level or even.
But must say for the price, compared to chain unpapers it certainly speeds things up, and gives you lovely even comb for the bees to draw back out.


Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Lyson manual steam uncapper
« Reply #47 on: February 16, 2022, 07:16:50 pm »
Nigel, Les do either of you see a way a thermometer can be added to some part of the blade to be used as a guide in determining if the blade is hot enough for the (next) cut, reducing the chance of wrinkling? If so that might be a plus? If not a portable handheld infrared thermometer may of value? (The type used in cutouts locating bees and also used for other various applications.)

Phillip




« Last Edit: February 16, 2022, 10:00:40 pm by Ben Framed »
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Online Lesgold

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Re: Lyson manual steam uncapper
« Reply #48 on: February 16, 2022, 10:36:54 pm »
Hi Phillip

I don?t think a thermometer is really needed. As Nigel said, it?s only a few seconds for the knife to get up to speed. By the time you load a frame into the extractor or sit it in an uncapping tank, the v knife is ready to go again. I run deeps so a lot of the time there will be low spots that you have to clean up anyway. The other issues I had yesterday was with a few frames having burr comb on the top and bottom bars or propolis on the end bars.  They did not sit well in the cradle and needed to be cleaned up first. I normally remove propolis and burr comb with my hot knife as I uncap. After the frame comes out of the extractor, it is ready to go back into a hive. This new system will require some double handling of frames and won?t save any time as I?m limited to what my 12 frame extractor can do. It does however do a good job quickly. As the Lyson sits on top of my uncapping tank, another problem has been created. I?ve lost the ability to store my uncapped frames as the steam knife is in the way. I can fit about 10 frames into the rack on the tank but it is awkward to get them in and out.  I think I will be building a stainless rack that will hold frames above the uncapper. This will solve the problem. I?m also thinking of positioning my hot knife above the uncapper so that the frames can be cleaned up as I go.  I forgot to mention that the cleanup of the uncapper was a simple task. I cleaned the knife with a damp cloth while it was hot and then took the unit outside and hosed it down with cold water.

Online Lesgold

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Re: Lyson manual steam uncapper
« Reply #49 on: February 25, 2022, 03:14:09 am »
Hi Folks,

Just a bit of an update on the uncapper. As I said in an earlier post, the V cutting knife was offset slightly to one side and was catching on frames. To solve the problem, I enlarged the holes that secure the knife in place. A rat tail file was used to make the holes slightly oval in shape and this gave me the slight amount of movement that was needed. The uncapper did not fit my uncapping tank perfectly so a 20mm x20mm strip of pine was added at each end to stop sideways movement.



The knife support springs were not quite long enough to give the adjustment required. A couple of stainless washers added the packing required to fix that problem. I also replaced the wing nuts with stainless nylock nuts as I found the wing nuts tended to move during operation.



The uncapper should now work very well. The next step will be to construct an overhead rack to hold 12 uncapped frames. Should be able to do this next week.

Cheers

Les

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Re: Lyson manual steam uncapper
« Reply #50 on: February 27, 2022, 11:10:15 pm »
Just finished welding up a rack to hold 12 frames above the uncapper. This will mean that I don?t lose the uncapping tank to hold frames while the extractor is running. 25mm stainless angle was used for the project. As you can see from the second photo, the uncapper can still be comfortably used even when the rack is full.






Offline NigelP

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Re: Lyson manual steam uncapper
« Reply #51 on: February 28, 2022, 04:08:51 am »
Looks good Les. Wish I was a bit more DIY savvy as could do with a similar rack.

Online Lesgold

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Re: Lyson manual steam uncapper
« Reply #52 on: February 28, 2022, 04:22:22 pm »
Thanks Nigel. I think it should work reasonably well. I just need to find a place to setup my hot knife so that it can be used to cleanup low spots, burr comb etc.

Online Lesgold

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Re: Lyson manual steam uncapper
« Reply #53 on: February 28, 2022, 11:50:52 pm »
Another wet day down under so it was a chance to get into the workshop and finish the setup of the uncapper. Thought long and hard about where to position the hot knife. In the end it was quite simple. I worked through the process of moving frames, positioning of hands etc and found the ideal location was on the top of the frame rack close to where I was actually working.



The knife ended up to be easily accessible yet out of the way of hands and arms. The final job was to make a bar with a spike to support frames when using the knife. The easiest solution I could come up with was to slip in piece of angle. Bolts slot into holes in the Lyson frame. It takes about 2 seconds to set it up or remove it.



The frame slide is pushed under the uncapped frames on the rack and the spike is dropped into place. The only other job is to put it to use and develop a work flow to use it. Thank goodness there is no more nectar coming in. I?m sick of the sight of it. At least I?ll have a couple of months off now before the next flow starts.

Offline Acebird

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Re: Lyson manual steam uncapper
« Reply #54 on: March 02, 2022, 08:29:14 am »
You will do much better to separate frames that will not fully uncap on a separate rack.  Then do all these odd balls at one time with the hand knife.  The hand knife gets too hot if it is on and not being used.  When the extractor is spinning you have idle time to mess with the odd balls.
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Lyson manual steam uncapper
« Reply #55 on: March 02, 2022, 08:38:54 am »
Brian what brand hot  knife do you use? I hear their is one that does not get too hot..
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Online Lesgold

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Re: Lyson manual steam uncapper
« Reply #56 on: March 02, 2022, 03:35:23 pm »
I agree about not having the knife on all of the time. My intention was to turn the knife on as I get close to uncapping the last couple of frames and then quickly clean them up while the extractor is still running. I will have plenty of time to do this before the extractor finishes it?s cycle. Phillip, I have always used a Speed King knife due to its quality. Although expensive, it?s thermostat keeps the knife at a good temperature and does not overheat.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Lyson manual steam uncapper
« Reply #57 on: March 02, 2022, 03:43:09 pm »
Les from what I have 'recently' learned, knife brand makes the difference. Supposedly there is a knife made in the USA which is dialed in to not reach a temperature which is too hot. I will ask the same question to you that I ask of Ace. What brand knife do you have? Thanks in advance.

Phillip
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Online Lesgold

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Re: Lyson manual steam uncapper
« Reply #58 on: March 02, 2022, 04:30:57 pm »
See above Phillip. The Speed King is an American made knife.

Cheers

Les

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Lyson manual steam uncapper
« Reply #59 on: March 02, 2022, 04:33:31 pm »
The one I was told of is the Pierce Brand. There may be a difference.
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

 

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