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Author Topic: "Australian honey could be making us sick"  (Read 5510 times)

Offline Steampunked

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"Australian honey could be making us sick"
« on: January 20, 2016, 06:05:31 pm »
Clickbait headline, but here's the article link for those who are curious:

http://www.theage.com.au/national/australian-honey-could-be-making-us-sick-20160120-gm9u6f.html

Be curious to see an analysis of pyrrolizidine alkaloids content in home produced honey, or that produced on stations that aren't getting mixed Capilano-style. Varieties such as Australian organic, floral blend, rainforest and blue borage had the highest levels of pyrrolizidine alkaloids, but when they say 'blue borage' they mean Patterson's curse (Echium vulgare), not normal borage (Borago officinalis).
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Offline Wombat2

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Re: "Australian honey could be making us sick"
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2016, 08:07:03 pm »
Saw a report recently, but didn't get the source, that was saying Monsanto scientists were saying honey was contaminated with "natural" poisonous compounds and not pesticides - thought it was hogwash but this is what they were probably referring to and trying to make it look like they are not the "bad guys" I might be skeptical but I wonder if Monsanto is behind these "reports"
« Last Edit: January 20, 2016, 08:22:55 pm by Wombat2 »
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Offline Steampunked

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Re: "Australian honey could be making us sick"
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2016, 09:45:20 pm »
Pyrrolizidine alkaloids are natural, they're a plant's defense against getting eaten.  That said, it would be fully in keeping with Monsanto's practices for them to correctly claim that plants have such alkaloids and so give the incorrect impression that there are not also pesticide issues...
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Offline PhilK

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Re: "Australian honey could be making us sick"
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2016, 11:53:57 pm »
Pyrrolizidine alkaloids are natural, they're a plant's defense against getting eaten.
That is true, but that does not mean they aren't cancer causing agents in people. Cancer is 'natural' too, I suppose you could argue!

I read this article this morning, and thought it was pretty interesting.. the way I see it's basically a difference in standards. For the Australian food safety standard our honey complies, but when tested by the Europeans using their standard, it doesn't. The question we need to ask then is which food safety standard has the correct minimal allowed concentration of PAs (ours being 0.1 and theirs being 0.07 or whatever the values are). PAs probably do contribute to disease states from what I have read, but if two countries can't agree on the minimally allowed level in food, then it is no wonder a stricter country looks at our standard and says it isn't good enough.

Disclaimer: I have done no research into the studies about minimal PA concentrations, so who knows if our standard or theirs is correct?

Offline Steampunked

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Re: "Australian honey could be making us sick"
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2016, 12:17:04 am »
Pyrrolizidine alkaloids are natural, they're a plant's defense against getting eaten.
That is true, but that does not mean they aren't cancer causing agents in people. Cancer is 'natural' too, I suppose you could argue!

I meant they weren't made up by Monsanto :)

Sadly, yeah, cancer is pretty natural!

No idea about the PA concentrations, I wonder why there's such a huge difference between Europe and Australia here.

Maybe it can be added to the collection of anecdotes about how poisonous and venomous Australia is!
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Offline PhilK

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Re: "Australian honey could be making us sick"
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2016, 02:57:30 am »
Wow that is a huge difference - from my memory I thought it was only a 0.003mcg difference, not a 0.993mcg difference... would be interested to see how two first world countries have come to such different results for the same compounds.

Also sad to see it's the 'Most Popular' article on that webpage.. people are likely to be scared of eating honey now!

Offline Wombat2

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Re: "Australian honey could be making us sick"
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2016, 03:19:52 am »
That's what Monsanto would like - the public to become less interested in consuming honey and therefore not so vocal or concerned about bees dieing off
David L

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: "Australian honey could be making us sick"
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2016, 09:36:50 am »
This is from New Zealand but you may have some of the same plants:

"POISONOUS HONEY.
"That there are two plants in New Zealand which yield poisonous honey does not admit of doubt to those who have carefully studied the matter. New Zealand, however, is not singular in this respect, for such plants are found in most countries, chiefly among the heathworts (wild azaleas and rhododendrons), and laurels. My first knowledge that there were native plants yielding such honey came from Maoris at the Thames, in 1878. They not only gave me the native names of the two plants they knew of, but described very accurately the symptoms and effect on human beings of honey poisoning; and also gave me to understand that such honey if allowed to remain exposed for six weeks after it is gathered, can be eaten in safety, to all of which I have since had proof of correctness.

"During my 42 years of beekeeping in New Zealand I have only known of four clear cases of honey poisoning; that is, where the poisoning could be distinctly traced to honey eaten by the sufferers, so that the risk is not very great. The danger lies in eating honey obtained from wild bee nests in the bush in the month of October, when the Wharangi (Brachyglottis repanda) is just going out of blossom, and again in March and April, when the Waoriki (Ranunculus rivularis) is in blossom ? the latter flourishes in swampy districts.
As the honey season proper, on which commercial bee-keepers rely, does not commence until about the beginning of December, and no honey is taken till the latter part of that month (more than three months after the Wharangi yields nectar) it follows that no honey from that source can reach the market. And again, the honey season of the commercial bee-keeper has ended before the Waoriki begins to blossom, so that there is absolutely no risk in purchasing honey of a known brand put on the market.

"I have always endeavoured to get at absolute facts in cases of alleged honey poisoning, in order to correct unreliable reports that get about. In two cases my inquiries led to an acknowledgement that the trouble was not caused by honey; in one of them I ate some of the so called poisonous honey without ill effects.

"One of the most severe cases I have known occurred in the Bay of Plenty, ten miles from Matata, in the autumn of 1889, when two young Maoris lost their lives. As I could not go personally to investigate the matter, my friend, the Rev. J. R. Madan, who was then stationed at Matata, undertook the work and furnished me with a full report, which I published in the "Australasian Bee Journal" for December, 1889. They were out pig-hunting (three young Maoris), when they came across a bee nest in an old tawhero tree, overhanging a deep ravine, and obtained some of the honey from it. According to the survivor, neither of them ate more than about half a pound of clean honey in the comb. About two hours afterward symptoms of poisoning set in, giddiness and vomiting, then delirium and cramps; they all made for a stream to drink water. (An old custom with Maoris when suddenly taken ill.) One was overcome on the way and fell unconscious, while the other two were found dead in the stream; they had apparently, from their bruised condition, fallen over the precipice leading to the stream. The one who fell on the way recovered consciousness early next morning, and made his way to a settlement near at hand, when searchers went forth and discovered the other two.

"The immediate cause of death was not honey poisoning, but exposure and drowning. Had they been overcome before reaching the precipice like their mate, they would likely have recovered.

"In another case I investigated personally, six Maoris were poisoned but all recovered. This latter occurred in October' (spring) and the former in autumn.

"During the past 42 years I have eaten large quantities of honey gathered in many districts without ill effects, so that the risk of injury from eating commercial honey is practically nil. "--Isaac Hoplkins, Fourty-Two Years of Bee-keeping in New Zealand.
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Offline PhilK

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Re: "Australian honey could be making us sick"
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2016, 07:25:26 pm »
My understanding of the article is that is concerned more with chronic exposure causing disease down the track, not so much 'eat honey get sick'

Interesting quotes there nonetheless!

Offline Steampunked

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Re: "Australian honey could be making us sick"
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2016, 07:41:18 pm »
The PAs gradually accumulate and can raise the incidence of liver cancer long term.  Short term, I know that some mammalian stock can get staggers on Patterson's Curse, but where I used to live, farmers would prefer having staggers and poisoning to stock completely dead through drought.
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Offline Wombat2

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Re: "Australian honey could be making us sick"
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2016, 03:10:31 am »
There was a Professor from one of the Universities being interviewed on the radio today and his comment was you would have to consume 1Kg a day every day to get an effect after a year or two
David L

Offline Steampunked

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Re: "Australian honey could be making us sick"
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2016, 07:41:56 pm »
There was a Professor from one of the Universities being interviewed on the radio today and his comment was you would have to consume 1Kg a day every day to get an effect after a year or two

As chem students say - the dose makes the poison.  Almost everything is poisonous enough if you increase the concentration!
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Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: "Australian honey could be making us sick"
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2016, 01:48:17 pm »
There was a Professor from one of the Universities being interviewed on the radio today and his comment was you would have to consume 1Kg a day every day to get an effect after a year or two

As chem students say - the dose makes the poison.  Almost everything is poisonous enough if you increase the concentration!

Even drinking too much water will kill you. A local radio station had a water drinking contest. A local nurse called and warned that it could be deadly. There answer was that all contestants had to sign a waver. One woman died that day even though they took her to the hospital.
Jim
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
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Offline azzkell

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Re: "Australian honey could be making us sick"
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2016, 10:49:46 pm »
Considering what people shove into their heads on a daily basis,  a kilo of honey a day would be minor by comparison.

Offline Steampunked

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Re: "Australian honey could be making us sick"
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2016, 04:15:45 am »
And here is a statement on the topic from the Australian Honey Industry:

http://honeybee.org.au/australian-honey-is-a-safe-natural-product/
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