Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum
MEMBER & GUEST INTERACTION SECTION => THE 2ND AMENDMENT => Topic started by: hjon71 on February 27, 2015, 03:21:32 am
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Just wondering how others view the idea of allowing all citizens who qualify to purchase weapons, to carry them either openly or concealed. No permits/licensing/checks/classes or fees. I believe some states do this already.
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I believe there should be few if any ""gun"" laws or rules. Do a background check and whatever desired, issue the person a permit to own. Then stay out of their business. Let them do as they please, within legal limits.
Register the person, and leave the guns alone.
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I don't believe you can have the same laws for big cities and suburban/rural communities.
As much as I'd like to think, large densly populated areas are really not a good place for open carry. I could be made legal, but, I just don't think it would work.
Firearm purchasers should be screened for mental illness and violent criminal history and some level of reasonable training should be required to carry, concealed or open. The carry laws should be standardized nationally. Purchase laws regarding state lines should be abolished since the NICS system is already Federally administered.
Just my opinion.
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Looks we 3 agree that a background check at purchase is a common sense policy. Sounds like Iddee and I agree on constitutional carry.
Jvalentour, you seems to contradict yourself here-
"I don't believe you can have the same laws for big cities and suburban/rural communities"
"The carry laws should be standardized nationally."
I think being very clear on the law concerning what happens after an incident where a citizen uses his/her weapon would establish the level of self discipline necessary to work. Insure swift and stern penalties for negligence.
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I think it is already constitutionally legal for anyone to own guns and carry them personally. First of all, our country is and always has been innocent until proven guilty. That being the case until someone has been proven to be unworthy to legally carry, they should be able to frankly. Merely because someone gets angry does not mean they will commit a crime with a firearm, and if they would commit it with a firearm they would anyways with something else chances are.
I believe more people carrying firearms makes us by far safer than people not.
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You question kind of assumes that there is, or should be, a one size fits all rule. here, I can open carry without permit, but need the permit to CC. I might open carry in my town and be ok, but if I did it in Portland or Eugene, some treehugger would pass out at the sight of a gun, and then sue me for the medical costs.
in a perfect world, we would do no background checks anywhere, anytime, but this is not a perfect world.
While I am sort of ok with state checks, I am not in favor of a national background check, or registration. I'm not ok with a state registration, although I consider my guns registers when the state check is done. + I know there is a low level FBI check done too, and computer space is cheap.
I would like to see a way to keep the nutters from getting guns. most of the problems, outside gangs and domestic stuff, come from mentally ill who get guns and shouldn't.
Whatever...it should remain a state issue.
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Law as writen by me every one carries even the loons 100%
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I would love to see complete freedom to buy and carry too. No checks no permits and certainly no registration or data storage.
I think punish the offenders makes much better policy than hinder the masses. But I'm a liberty freak :cool:
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I would love to see complete freedom to buy and carry too. No checks no permits and certainly no registration or data storage.
I think punish the offenders makes much better policy than hinder the masses. But I'm a liberty freak :cool:
Punish the offenders seems to be a lost remedy to too many.
I'm with you on this Hjon.
We have many good laws on the books that are unenforced, so it seems we need to write more and more.
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hjon71. I agree with you in spirit. in most places, as a practical matter, our society has changed so much, we could not get to universal open carry. It's also a myth that we were ever there. there were many towns in the old days that banned guns, or open carry. they did it because the guys would come off the range, get drunk, and shoot up the town. The one poor sheriff was outgunned. :wink:
criminals exist and no amount of gun control will do anything about them. we have a bigger and expanding problem for the general public, and that is how we handle the mentally ill. the guy who killed Kyle and Littlefield was a nutter. he used a gun because it was handy, but he might just as well gone home and stabbed his mother and sister to death. in that case, we would not have heard about it but two people would still be dead.
This guy the other day that went on a murder spree and kill family and neighbors, was another one.
so...as long as we are letting them wander the streets, i don't want the guy who takes his instructions from the voices in his head...or the neighbors dog, to be able to walk into a gun store and buy. that only addresses a small bit of the problem....might need to have a public information campaign too. you shouldn't have to tell people to keep guns from nuts, but CT proves you do.
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hjon71,
I wasn't contradicting myself.
The difference between us is I don't believe the loons should have the guns. Loons are defined as the mentally ill and criminals. Culturally, large cities are much different than the suburbs and rural communities. I really don't see a good way to allow open carry everywhere. Just my opinion.
As far as carry laws being standardized nationally, my meaning is that if you can CC in Ohio legally it's reciprocal in Tennessee, or anywhere else in the US. Neighboring states are starting to work that out now, Ohio and Indiana for example.
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>Register the person, and leave the guns alone.
The problem with the way government views things is they always want the "allowed list" which in effect is a permit. What they need to keep is a blacklist. It's smaller and easier to maintain and it assumes you have a right until there is a reason to remove it.
>I believe some states do this already.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2015/03/02/these-states-are-poised-to-allow-people-to-carry-hidden-guns-around-without-a-permit/
Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Wyoming and Vermont.
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The second amendment was to limit the federal governments powers on the control over firearms. At the time, each state could make it's own laws on 'arms'.
Most state constitutions have an equal amendment to the federal constitutions second amendment.
This from PA's state Constitution
Right to Bear Arms
Section 21.
The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned.
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Tennessee is a Shall Issue State, However in the Country , Most ALL, if not everyone has a firearm & many do carry a weapon with them on / around their property and in town all Legally W/ Permit some with not . up to 85% have CCWP's if not more in Tennessee.
Ret,Sgt. Yates
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In Alabama, all you had to do was pass a background check and pay the $20 fee. When I moved to Kentucky, I found out you had to take a 8 hour class for $75. I was not happy!! However, after taking the class, I was glad I did. a lot of the class went into the laws of using deadly force, many of them I either didn't know or had wrong. The last thing I need to happen is to be unfortunate enough to be in a deadly force confrontation and then go to prison because I didn't know the laws. I see good and bad in these types of classes and requirements..
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we are required to take a class here for CC. I liked the one I took because the instructor really stress the idea that if you were not committed to use the weapon to kill, you shouldn't carry. One never knows until confronted, but you have to believe in your heart that you can kill, or you will not be able to do it when the time comes.
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When I was growing up, when you bought a new gun it was not registered. Most of the guns I own are not registered. In Mississippi you can openly carry in most places. You have to get a permit for CC, and you have to take a class if not ex military or law enforcement. If you do have to take the class it runs $100 up, fingerprint runs $100 and the permit is about the same. You can have a gun in your car, concealed in the glove box or console without a permit. I am thinking about getting a CC permit shortly. I just bought a compact SCCY 9mm, made in Daytona Fla. It was cheap a so far works fine.
Good shooting
Joe D
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I took the cc class but never followed through on the permit. I do not carry all the time but have carried a few times regardless of the rules. If I was going into a threatening situation I would take the gun. Maybe twice in my life. It didn't bother me that it was against the rules and I am thankfull that I didn't get unlucky and called out on it. My belief is I should not be punished if I have hurt no one. If you don't do the crime you shouldn't do the time. I feel the same about drinking and driving. You shouldn't be punished it you didn't have an accident or run a stop sign.
I also believe that felons should be allowed to vote. Maybe not while they are actually in jail due to logistics but if the populous wanted to change some law because they were hurt by it but aren't allowed to vote, your chances of changing a bad law is hurt. A perfect example is our drug laws. If felons could vote they may have been changed. It doesn't matter if you like the drug laws, if so vote for them but don't stop others from voting against them cause the government you vote for says you can't vote.
I always figured that I didn't worry about the laws too much and just lived to try and help more then I hurt and as long as I am not hurting others then it doesn't matter what the law is, I do what I want and try to fix it if somebody tries to nail me for some law that is unjust. Nobody, even if trying, can live without breaking some law.
I doubt I follow through on getting the permit to carry but I might. It is not a high priority to me cause I will try to protect myself either way with the key word being try.
I also think it is a slippery slope to try and dissallow people to own guns due to mental issues. I disagree with many peoples attitudes and some don't like mine. Nobody is immune to somebody not liking something they think. Let people think what they want even if it is bad as long as they don't act on it and try to hurt/take from others. When they act and try to hurt/take from others it becomes a crime with the key word being act.
Just my thoughts
gww
I also only have one gun that I bought new that is registered. The rest I bought used here and there.
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I also think it is a slippery slope to try and dissallow people to own guns due to mental issues.
I have some issues with this too because it is open to abuse. Still, there are people who should not be allowed anywhere near a weapon (of any kind) and there has to be a way to sort that. The biggest problems are 1. a lot of mental health care providers are anti-gun. 2. there is no way to get at the records as long as HIPAA is as it is.
The way we handle the mentally ill in this country is completely FUBAR. well....hopefully not beyond repair. If your standard for intervention is that they have to be a danger to themselves or others, you will always be mopping up the disasters they create. Never mind that so many are living on the streets, which no one can consider a kinder way to handle them.
I can think of two shooters off the top of my head whose families had tried to get help for them, and there was no help available. There were others that friends had ID'd, but there was no way to get help. If we have to spend public money addressing this problem, it's a better place to spend it than in importing more potential terrorists, or passing out more food stamps and phones.