Author Topic: A General Hive Question (Read 27991 times)

The15thMember · « **Reply #20 on:** May 15, 2024, 12:28:57 pm »

There are so, so many ways to make a split, depending on the time of year, the goal of the split, and the equipment you have at your disposal. I'm bad with the terminology surrounding different types of splits, because there are just so many ways to do it, and I prefer to just think through the process logically each time. The thing to ask yourself when you split a hive is this: what is each half now lacking, and how do I make sure they can manage well until they have it again?

Here is what I typically do, but again, there are 100 ways to skin this cat. When I split for increase, I try to mimic a swarm, so I'll move the frame with the queen into the new hive. I make sure there are drawn blanks for her to lay in, some capped brood, and plenty of stores, because this side of the split will be lacking foragers, and therefore won't have food coming in until the bees that emerge in the new hive begin foraging (which they will do early, in the absence of older bees). All the current flying bees that I have incidentally moved are oriented to the original colony's location, and when they leave the new hive to go forage, they will return back to the old hive.

In the original location, they are now lacking a queen, so in order to make one they will need frames with eggs and also plenty of nurse bees, so I ensure the original colony also has capped brood, since nursing is the job of the young bees. If I'm expecting a big flow, I'll also be sure the original colony has the supers they need, because I don't want to disturb that colony until the new queen has mated.

In your case, Terri, the question is going to be if the hive is really big enough to split down the middle yet. If not, making a nuc off of the hive may be better, but that nuc will have gotten a very late start. Or, you could do something like Phillip described, and wait and make a nuc off your hive later in the season, if you don't catch a swarm. You will then have to overwinter that nuc, but one strong colony and one nuc might be preferable to 2 weaker colonies going into winter. It's just a matter of preference and proper timing in your situation.

beesnweeds · « **Reply #21 on:** May 15, 2024, 06:11:23 pm »

Quote from: Terri Yaki on May 15, 2024, 08:41:14 am

Can I just split this colony?

At the end of the day there's only 2 ways to make a split. You can purchase a queen or allow the split to make its own which in your case will be an emergency queen. When I make splits, they either have charged swarm cells, or I have mated queens ready. Emergency queens can sometimes be poor quality. If you make the split now it will be around 30 days until the new queen is laying and another 12 days for bees the best age to produce wax. You might be able to pull it off but once August comes around wax production gets harder. Honestly you should focus on getting your new hive strong for winter and learn about mite/honeybee life cycle and biology. Your bees could produce honey this year and make splits next year.

Ben Framed · « **Reply #22 on:** May 15, 2024, 06:50:51 pm »

https://beemaster.com/forum/index.php?topic=54632.msg497529#msg497529

Terri Yaki · « **Reply #23 on:** May 15, 2024, 07:10:29 pm »

Good discussion in that thread, Ben. Thanks. For now, I'll concentrate on getting the hive strong, try to catch a swarm and if and when I have a lot of brood, I'll consider it.

Ben Framed · « **Reply #24 on:** May 15, 2024, 09:17:38 pm »

👍🏻

Terri Yaki · « **Reply #25 on:** May 28, 2024, 02:52:31 pm »

My swarm hive is hardly flying today for some reason. It's in the 70s and partly sunny. I think I heard the queen in there piping. Are these symptoms of anything?

The15thMember · « **Reply #26 on:** May 28, 2024, 07:05:10 pm »

Generally virgins will pipe; it's the challenge call for any other queens to come and fight her for supremacy. How sure are you that you saw brood in there? I remember you were having trouble seeing eggs, but did you see any larvae? Keep in mind that this colony is about 1/4 of the size of your other one, so don't be surprised if the traffic is about 1/4 that of the other hive.

Terri Yaki · « **Reply #27 on:** May 28, 2024, 08:02:49 pm »

Quote from: The15thMember on May 28, 2024, 07:05:10 pm

Generally virgins will pipe; it's the challenge call for any other queens to come and fight her for supremacy. How sure are you that you saw brood in there? I remember you were having trouble seeing eggs, but did you see any larvae? Keep in mind that this colony is about 1/4 of the size of your other one, so don't be surprised if the traffic is about 1/4 that of the other hive.

I couldn't confirm any larvae but I believe I saw some eggs and no capped brood. But they had only been here for a week. They have a good pile of stores but I don't know how much of that they brought with them. And I watched them a little today and they are bringing in pollen and now that you mention it, yes, I was comparing them with my other hive, which is much bigger. When they all come in without pollen, are they toting nectar instead?

Kathyp · « **Reply #28 on:** May 28, 2024, 09:27:20 pm »

Next time you check, take your phone and get pictures of the cells. Then you can look on your computer and you'll be able to see better what's in there.

The15thMember · « **Reply #29 on:** May 28, 2024, 09:28:08 pm »

Provided they found some nectar, yes. They could of course be coming home empty and it would be difficult to tell, but if there are things blooming and there is good traffic, it's a safe bet they have loaded honey crops. Another indicator is that bees who are carrying heavy loads will often kind of slam down on the landing board, because their trajectory is a little off from the weight.

Terri Yaki · « **Reply #30 on:** May 28, 2024, 09:55:49 pm »

Pictures with phone is a good tip, will do, thanks. I'll watch for landing trajectories and see what they look like.

Michael Bush · « **Reply #31 on:** May 30, 2024, 06:48:22 am »

How to do splits:
https://bushfarms.com/beessplits.htm

Terri Yaki · « **Reply #32 on:** June 09, 2024, 10:15:30 pm »

Hive inspections tomorrow and I have a question or two...should I install an inner cover with an entrance in it, facing upwards for ventilation? We have hot weather coming in for the end of the week. The nuc already has a top entrance, which they seem to like better than the one on the bottom. Should I flip it upwards to force the air up through the middle of that hive too?

The15thMember · « **Reply #33 on:** June 09, 2024, 11:08:46 pm »

I think you should feel free to experiment with ventilation and entrances and see what works for you and your bees. Just keep in mind that the bees' ability to cool themselves will be inhibited by too much ventilation just as much as not enough. It's a balance that you'll need to strike for your particular location.

Terri Yaki · « **Reply #34 on:** June 09, 2024, 11:19:18 pm »

Quote from: The15thMember on June 09, 2024, 11:08:46 pm

I think you should feel free to experiment with ventilation and entrances and see what works for you and your bees. Just keep in mind that the bees' ability to cool themselves will be inhibited by too much ventilation just as much as not enough. It's a balance that you'll need to strike for your particular location.

Hmmm...and why is that? We are forecast to get to 97 on Thursday and my hives get full sun from mid morning until late afternoon and I am worried that they will overheat without some air flow. Am I mistaken?

The15thMember · « **Reply #35 on:** June 10, 2024, 12:09:48 am »

Bees lower the temperature in a hive very much in the same way an air conditioner works. They paint water on the combs with their tongues and then fan to evaporate it. The bees will set up fanning lines to move the air all the way out the nearest entrance. So they need enough ventilation to be able to vent that moist air, but they also need to be able to control that venting process. If there is too much ventilation, it's essentially the same as running the A/C with the windows open, where more hot air is entering the space than the bees have the ability to cool and evacuate.

gww · « **Reply #36 on:** June 10, 2024, 12:24:27 am »

I am a firm believer in solid bottom and no upper vent. I do use slatted racks though. I admit to never trying screen bottom cause it does not make sense to me but many love them. Now when I say no upper vent, I am a poor carpenter and boards warp and bees chew and so I have lots of places besides the bottom in the end. Solid bottom and no upper just makes sense to me for the very reason of the thing that The15thmember just explained. It just seems like it would give the bees more over all control.

Ben Framed · « **Reply #37 on:** June 10, 2024, 09:28:10 am »

Just as other considerations in beekeeping practices; Location may play an important part in the use and options of ventilation.

About a month ago few of us discussed ventilation within another topic; where the topic shifted to ventilation after Member shared her problem of her bees not capping honey in a satisfactory time frame.

I relayed Tim Durhams opinion concerning ventilation. I
think I included that Tim also kept bees in North Carolina for a period of his life. Members State.

You might glance back and see if that discussion will help broaden your opinions and options Terri, beginning with reply# 11.

https://beemaster.com/forum/index.php?topic=57383.msg530132#msg530132

Terri Yaki · « **Reply #38 on:** June 10, 2024, 10:19:17 am »

Thanks Ben, some good points are made there.

Ben Framed · « **Reply #39 on:** June 10, 2024, 12:32:42 pm »

Quote from: Terri Yaki on June 10, 2024, 10:19:17 am

Thanks Ben, some good points are made there.

I'm still learning too Terri. I try to keep an open mind in 'any' bee discussion, especially when I hear a relevant 'sounding' practice.

I try to 'listen intently' to 'each' post, and decide if 'this or that' recommendation is something 'that I should consider doing' for my bees as well, "in my location". Or "is this something I have tried and it failed to work for my bees?" In the good discussion, I may learn 'why' I failed, or perhaps that others have tried what I have tried, and succeeded; Or find that others also succeeded but with better results. "always trying to remember to keep 'location' in mind if location is possibly relevant.

For example, on the other topic I posted of a local beekeeper, 'local to me', "Tim Durham", of how he vents his hives. This same beekeeper once lived in the same state as The15Member, Iddee and some other top beekeepers of that State which are posting members here of whom I have great respect. That method of Tims' practice does not mean that Tim used the same practice of ventilating his hive then, in (NC) as he does in his present location, (Ms). He may very well have done something different in 'that' location. I have not asked but the next time he puts out a video, I will try to make it a point to ask.

Most who post here ask questions as well as give their valuable opinions. Especially those opinions which come from ones' 'very own' experiences. Or; freely name the source where those opinions come from, especially if asked. Together, 'we' learn and I for one am still learning. My thanks go out to you all..

Phillip