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Offline The15thMember

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Fermenting
« on: October 21, 2022, 07:49:52 pm »
I made some homemade sauerkraut for the first time today.  I've done fermented honey garlic before, but this is the first vegetable ferment I have done.  Anyone else doing any fermenting?


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Offline G3farms

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Re: Fermenting
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2022, 08:29:23 pm »
My wife say I have been fermenting for years now!  :shocked:
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Re: Fermenting
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2022, 09:19:17 pm »
Looks like you did a good Job Member.. Was there a lot of steps involved?

My wife say I have been fermenting for years now!  :shocked:

Haa haa G3  :shocked: :grin: good one!

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Offline The15thMember

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Re: Fermenting
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2022, 09:32:37 pm »
My wife say I have been fermenting for years now!  :shocked:
:cheesy:

Looks like you did a good Job Member.. Was there a lot of steps involved?
Not at all.  Honestly, it was so easy, I'm surprised everyone doesn't do this, and that I haven't done it before.  :happy:  I had a head of green cabbage and a head of red cabbage.  I chopped them up and layered them in a big bowl with Celtic sea salt.  I then mixed and crushed it all with my hands to bruise the cabbage and distribute the salt.  Then I packed it super tightly in the jars, topped each jar with a cabbage leaf to keep it nice and tight, and now it will sit for about a week or two.  Boom, sauerkraut!  :grin:
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Offline iddee

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Re: Fermenting
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2022, 09:35:29 pm »
I haven't lately, but I made 5 gallons of kraut in a 6 gallon croc every year for several years. Start tasting it on day 3. Then taste every day until desired strength is acquired. 7 days should be about max, depending on temps.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Re: Fermenting
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2022, 09:41:28 pm »
Thanks Reagan.

I haven't lately, but I made 5 gallons of kraut in a 6 gallon croc every year for several years. Start tasting it on day 3. Then taste every day until desired strength is acquired. 7 days should be about max, depending on temps.

How do you store it iddee? What is the process?

Phillip
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14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline gww

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Re: Fermenting
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2022, 12:51:39 am »
I am not iddee but make all kinds of fermented stuff like kimchi and sweet tater stems and and turnups, cucumbers.  Keep it all in the fridge and it is why I have three of them.  During winter I can get by for a while on some cold basement steps that don't freeze.
Good luck and hope this is helpful.
Cheers
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Re: Fermenting
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2022, 02:24:09 am »
Yes this is very helpful. Two more questions (for now) 'their may be more later'
How long will this last in the fridge? And how will I know when it is past its 'prime'?  (Still good to eat not being spoiled)

Phillip
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14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline iddee

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Re: Fermenting
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2022, 07:57:55 am »
The old folks would just leave it in the crock all winter and dip out as needed. If it molded, just scoop off the mold and dip from underneath.

After 7 or eight days, it gets stronger than I like. My wife removes about half of it and cans it on day 3 or 4. I like to leave it until day 6 or 7, then can it.
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Offline gww

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Re: Fermenting
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2022, 10:55:12 am »
In my experience it will last more then a year if refrigerated.  It will slowly get more sour which I personally like better then when first made.  If the fridge goes out it will go bad, ask how I know.  I think iddee hit it pretty good.  Not really sure how bad it gets if cold but taste does change and that may affect your decision on eating it.  My opinion is it mostly gets better but all are different in their expectations.  Mom always did can the sauerkraut when I was young and that probably guarantees holding a certain taste.
Cheers
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Offline The15thMember

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Re: Fermenting
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2022, 02:54:50 pm »
Yes this is very helpful. Two more questions (for now) 'their may be more later'
How long will this last in the fridge? And how will I know when it is past its 'prime'?  (Still good to eat not being spoiled)

Phillip
As Wally and gww mentioned, from what I've read, seen, etc. in my research, it will be obvious to the nose when it goes bad.  You also wouldn't want to eat it if it's growing brightly colored mold, but a little white or gray mold can simply be skimmed off.  Whenever it's as sour as you like it, you put it in cold storage to stop/drastically slow the fermentation.  In a cold environment, it will last quite long, since the goal of fermentation is to have the good bacteria take over, so the bad bacteria don't, and all the bacterial growth will be slower in the cold.  You can can ferments to make them last for a really long time, although the canning process does destroy a lot of the bacteria that are good for your gut.   
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Re: Fermenting
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2022, 03:51:14 pm »
Thanks to each of you. My next question; Does canning create a noticeable change in taste in each of your opinions?

Phillip
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14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline iddee

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Re: Fermenting
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2022, 03:59:03 pm »
I don't think canning affects it at all. It can be water bath canned. No need to pressure can. Nothing destroyed that bringing it to a boil before serving wouldn't destroy.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline The15thMember

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Re: Fermenting
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2022, 07:10:02 pm »
I don't think canning affects it at all. It can be water bath canned. No need to pressure can. Nothing destroyed that bringing it to a boil before serving wouldn't destroy.
Well sure, there wouldn't be any difference between canning and cooking before eating.  But there would be a big difference between either of those things and eating it raw. 
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Offline iddee

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Re: Fermenting
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2022, 12:06:13 pm »
You may be right there, I don't know, but I like it better hot, with wieners or sausages.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline Acebird

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Re: Fermenting
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2022, 08:40:53 am »
Nothing destroyed that bringing it to a boil before serving wouldn't destroy.
As with all forms of cooking it is time and temperature.
Water bath is lower temperature for longer time then pressure canning.  Any form of cooking will affect taste.
Every time we tried to make kraut it turned brown  on top and my wife didn't like it.  I didn't think it was bad.
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Fermenting
« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2022, 10:43:54 am »
If you are making kraut in a crock you need something to hold it down.  My Grandmother in law always had a plate about the size of the crock and a (clean) rock on it to hold everything under the brine.
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Offline iddee

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Re: Fermenting
« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2022, 12:15:40 pm »
As MB said, you can't let air get to it for a period of time. It must be kept below the liquid surface. No, the brown wasn't bad. It just doesn't look good. We had a white flint rock, almost a crystal, cleaned and wrapped in tinfoil on a plate.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline Acebird

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Re: Fermenting
« Reply #18 on: October 25, 2022, 08:04:37 am »
As MB said, you can't let air get to it for a period of time. It must be kept below the liquid surface. No, the brown wasn't bad. It just doesn't look good.
I tried to get the wife to listen but she is Irish.
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Offline The15thMember

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Re: Fermenting
« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2022, 03:29:31 pm »
We tried the kraut last night.  It's not quite done, still too cabbage-y, and not sour enough.  It's going to be good though, I can already tell!  :grin:
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Offline The15thMember

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Re: Fermenting
« Reply #20 on: October 28, 2022, 08:54:29 pm »
We ate some kraut for the first time tonight with our meal.  It's not quite there yet, but it went with our meal tonight so we had some anyway.  It was GOOD.  I'm sure it'll be even better when it gets a little more sour, as it was still quite mild today.

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Offline Acebird

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Re: Fermenting
« Reply #21 on: October 29, 2022, 08:36:36 am »
Did you make your own kielbasa?
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Offline The15thMember

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Re: Fermenting
« Reply #22 on: October 29, 2022, 03:06:40 pm »
Did you make your own kielbasa?
No, just store bought.
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Fermenting
« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2022, 08:52:09 am »
I try to avoid nitrites.
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Offline The15thMember

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Re: Fermenting
« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2022, 12:54:56 pm »
I try to avoid nitrites.
So do my angelfish.
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Offline The15thMember

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Re: Fermenting
« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2022, 01:33:58 pm »
I had a little trouble with my kraut this week.  I noticed that some of it wasn't under the brine anymore and was turning brown.  I'd had some brine spill out, and I guess I should have replaced it.  I also probably should have had a heavier weight in the top than I did.  I salvaged what was still good, and I've got an extra head of red cabbage in the fridge, so I'm going to make some more today. 

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Offline The15thMember

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Re: Fermenting
« Reply #26 on: November 05, 2022, 07:23:25 pm »
I used the food processor today, and it went a lot better for a number of reasons.  Firstly, it was obviously faster; secondly, the increased surface area helped the cabbage to sweat quicker when I salted it; and thirdly, it was a lot easier to massage and pack it with my weak hands when the pieces were smaller.  I don't have any real weights yet, and I haven't been down to the river to get a rock, so I'm using a plastic bag filled with water as a weight.  Also, as you can see, the cabbage ended up being a green one, not a red one.  :smile:

 
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Fermenting
« Reply #27 on: November 06, 2022, 09:06:00 am »
The problem is water is lighter than salt water.  Use the bag but put something solid in it.  You can even use another smaller canister or plastic container filled with dirt that will fit through the mouth of the jar.
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Offline The15thMember

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Re: Fermenting
« Reply #28 on: November 06, 2022, 01:05:51 pm »
The problem is water is lighter than salt water.  Use the bag but put something solid in it.  You can even use another smaller canister or plastic container filled with dirt that will fit through the mouth of the jar.
I'm not having any trouble with the bag floating.  There is not enough liquid in the jar for that.  Both my salvaged batch and my new batch are staying under the brine nicely with the baggie weights, and this morning my new batch had brine almost all the way up to the top of the jar!  :happy:  Also, if I was going to fill a container or bag with something solid as a weight, I'd probably pick something cleaner than dirt!  :wink: :cheesy: 

The first time around I actually didn't use any weight, since I had seen several people not using weights in my research, and I always like to try the minimalist approach first.  I just packed it in real good and topped it with a folded up cabbage leaf.  I think the reason that it didn't work for me was that I didn't replace the brine when I lost it, and that I was unable to REALLY PACK it in my containers, for all the reasons that this round with the food processor went better.  When I removed some from the quart jar and ate it, I noticed the brine was too low, so I put an empty jelly jar in the top of that one as a weight.  But that wasn't heavy enough to submerge the cabbage under the small amount of brine I had left.           
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Fermenting
« Reply #29 on: November 07, 2022, 08:51:29 am »
I'd probably pick something cleaner than dirt!  :wink: :cheesy: 
Just trying to make a point, anything can be used.  FYI the cabbage grew in dirt and dirt is good for the prostate.
Quote
But that wasn't heavy enough to submerge the cabbage under the small amount of brine I had left.           
LOL fill it with dirt!
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Offline iddee

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Re: Fermenting
« Reply #30 on: November 07, 2022, 06:56:28 pm »
Really, Ace, do you actually think 15th needs prostate help?   :shocked:
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Re: Fermenting
« Reply #31 on: November 07, 2022, 07:44:58 pm »
Posted by: iddee
<<on: Today at 04:56:28 pm >>
Quote
Really, Ace, do you actually think 15th needs prostate help?   :shocked:




 :cheesy:

« Last Edit: November 07, 2022, 08:13:45 pm by Ben Framed »
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Offline The15thMember

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Re: Fermenting
« Reply #32 on: November 07, 2022, 08:25:58 pm »
Really, Ace, do you actually think 15th needs prostate help?   :shocked:
:cheesy:  I was thinking it!  To be fair, there are lots of other good reasons to ingest a little dirt that don't require having a prostate.  :grin:
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Fermenting
« Reply #33 on: November 08, 2022, 08:20:34 am »
Really, Ace, do you actually think 15th needs prostate help?   :shocked:
I was thinking she was married and cared for her hubby.
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Offline iddee

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Re: Fermenting
« Reply #34 on: November 08, 2022, 10:23:27 am »
Thinking?? If that were so, you would be voting straight republican today.  :grin:
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Offline The15thMember

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Re: Fermenting
« Reply #35 on: November 08, 2022, 11:08:26 am »
Really, Ace, do you actually think 15th needs prostate help?   :shocked:
I was thinking she was married and cared for her hubby.
Nope, still living at home with my mom and dad and my younger siblings, all of whom are girls.  :cheesy: 
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Offline The15thMember

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Re: Fermenting
« Reply #36 on: November 09, 2022, 02:17:45 pm »
I tasted both rounds of kraut yesterday.  The original batch, in spite of looking nice, still tastes a little alcoholic from the yeasts getting into it, so I just tossed it in the compost.  The green kraut has started to bubble nicely and is starting to taste and smell sour already.  I did notice that my baggie weight was leaking a little bit (because the lesson of this whole experience is apparently "things that work for other people don't work for me"  :wink: :cheesy: ), so I did end up filling the baggie with something solid instead.  As I predicted, I did not choose dirt, but rather marbles to fill the bag.  :cheesy:
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Offline G3farms

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Re: Fermenting
« Reply #37 on: November 09, 2022, 08:56:58 pm »
So I guess it would be safe to say you were loosing your marbles?!?!  :cheesy:
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Offline The15thMember

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Re: Fermenting
« Reply #38 on: November 09, 2022, 09:43:06 pm »
So I guess it would be safe to say you were loosing your marbles?!?!  :cheesy:
:cheesy:  Hopefully I WON'T lose them like I lost the water!  :grin:
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Offline The15thMember

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Re: Fermenting
« Reply #39 on: June 06, 2023, 01:33:32 pm »
I figured I'd get this thread going again, since I've been doing a lot of fermenting lately.  We got a set of mason tops, so no more messing around with bags of marbles and such.  I've done several rounds of kraut and it's becoming a staple in the fridge.  Just yesterday I made up a beautiful batch of kraut from a beautiful deep purple cabbage. 

I also fermented some onions and they are great on sandwiches, salads, or burgers.  I've also had good reviews on fermented carrots.  I've done some plain, and the last batch I did with garlic and some herbs, and both the carrots and the garlic are great to snack on.  I'm planning on doing more onions and carrots sometime this week, so I'll post some pictures when I do.   
« Last Edit: June 06, 2023, 01:46:52 pm by The15thMember »
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Offline Occam

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Re: Fermenting
« Reply #40 on: June 13, 2023, 09:01:49 pm »
I need to do some kraut this year, would be a good addition to the pantry

I do kombucha right now,  go through about a gallon a week. Often unflavored for part of the batch, half the batch I pup Sunday night is apricot blueberry. I used cane sugar this time in the second ferment stage but I've used honey and it does well. The honey doesn't completely disolve though it turns extremely liquid, just heavier than the main kombucha liquid then mixes nicely when poured.
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Offline The15thMember

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Re: Fermenting
« Reply #41 on: June 13, 2023, 11:33:14 pm »
I do kombucha right now,  go through about a gallon a week. Often unflavored for part of the batch, half the batch I pup Sunday night is apricot blueberry. I used cane sugar this time in the second ferment stage but I've used honey and it does well. The honey doesn't completely disolve though it turns extremely liquid, just heavier than the main kombucha liquid then mixes nicely when poured.
What's the kombucha taste like?  I've never had any.  I need to try some honey with my water kefir.  I was thinking of making a simple syrup out of the honey so it would dissolve better, or just using some that is naturally very runny.  By the way, do you say kombuCHa or kombuKa?  I've heard it both ways.   
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Offline Occam

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Re: Fermenting
« Reply #42 on: June 13, 2023, 11:58:37 pm »
I do kombucha right now,  go through about a gallon a week. Often unflavored for part of the batch, half the batch I pup Sunday night is apricot blueberry. I used cane sugar this time in the second ferment stage but I've used honey and it does well. The honey doesn't completely disolve though it turns extremely liquid, just heavier than the main kombucha liquid then mixes nicely when poured.
What's the kombucha taste like?  I've never had any.  I need to try some honey with my water kefir.  I was thinking of making a simple syrup out of the honey so it would dissolve better, or just using some that is naturally very runny.  By the way, do you say kombuCHa or kombuKa?  I've heard it both ways.   

I don't know about water kefir, ferment times etc, but with kombuCHa you can only use honey in the second ferment. First ferment is too long and you risk botulism getting out of control with honey. Second ferment is an optional ferment to carbonate the beverage or flavor it and honey can be used in second. I usually do a 7 or 8 day ferment on my first and 2 days on my second.

I make mine to have a light, crisp, clean taste, somewhat similar to a cider I would say. Adding carbonation in second ferment enhances that. Do your first ferment too long and it turns vinegar-like, the longer you go the stronger, do tasting after day 6 or 7 is a good idea. You never want to flavor your scoby though, only what you bottle. The scoby should never get anything but tea and sugar
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Offline The15thMember

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Re: Fermenting
« Reply #43 on: June 14, 2023, 12:26:27 am »
I don't know about water kefir, ferment times etc, but with kombuCHa you can only use honey in the second ferment. First ferment is too long and you risk botulism getting out of control with honey. Second ferment is an optional ferment to carbonate the beverage or flavor it and honey can be used in second. I usually do a 7 or 8 day ferment on my first and 2 days on my second.

I make mine to have a light, crisp, clean taste, somewhat similar to a cider I would say. Adding carbonation in second ferment enhances that. Do your first ferment too long and it turns vinegar-like, the longer you go the stronger, do tasting after day 6 or 7 is a good idea. You never want to flavor your scoby though, only what you bottle. The scoby should never get anything but tea and sugar
Both of water kefir's ferments are very short, only 24-48 hours if the conditions are right, so I doubt there would be any botulism risk.  I was told that water kefir can metabolize any sugar, but it also need minerals to function, and I would be concerned there aren't enough minerals in the honey (although I could always add some with baking soda).  I have been feeding the SCOBY raw sugar, not white sugar for this reason.  Like the kombuCHa, :cheesy: water kefir should never have any fruit or other flavorants in its "living quarters" jar though, because certain chemicals in certain fruits can be bad for the SCOBY.  The only safe fruit to add in with the SCOBY is raisins, or so the card that came with them tells me.           
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