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Offline Richard M

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Beehives in a shed?
« on: December 25, 2014, 02:23:47 am »
Presently, I share 3 hives with a relative; this is great in as much as he has a decent sized house lot of about 3 acres, out in the bush, s no near neighbours to get antsy about them.

Downside is that he lives 12km away so it's a bit of a hike every time I want to check em out.

I'd like to have a couple more hives closer to home, preferably of my own but my own place is just a normal house lot in the suburbs, 850m2 or about 9000 sq feet, with neighbours on four sides. Fortunately we have reasonably mature trees all around and I'm confident that I could set up a small (2 hive) apiary with minimal impact on neighbours, however, the way the lot is developed, there's no free space on the ground where I could fit them in and stay married at the same time. I'm near the edge of suburbia, with lots of gardens with flowers etc to the West, South and East and bushland and farmland with great potential only 250 yards to the North.

I do have a 6m x 6m (20ft x 20ft) double car steel garage and I was toying with the idea of building a small timber platform over the roof (it's shallow pitched - only 20%) but against this is the faff involved in getting up and down, the risk of falling off but also the brazenness of it all - my place is on a small rise and I'm pretty sure that the sight of two hives sitting on my shed roof, sticking out like dogs balls for everyone to see would be a source of instant complaint to the Council and whilst I'm happy that I could fight that fight ok, by operating in compliance with the local State Govt approved Code of Practice for Urban Beekeeping ( http://dpipwe.tas.gov.au/Documents/Code%20of%20Practice%20for%20Urban%20Beekeping.pdf), I simply cannot be arsed with getting into a brawl with the neighbours over it.

I would let the home owners in the immediate vicinity know that I'm keeping bees but I think not being so "in yer face" would be better for long-term relations.

So I was thinking about a bit of crafty concealment in my shed. What got me thinking about this was some dealings, (in my former local council job) I had with an old guy who complained that he reckoned one of his neighbours was keeping bees as he'd had a swarm in his backyard, every summer for several years. What he'd not noticed, for several years was that he had a wild colony living in a hollow tree in the centre of his backyard; at the time I was amazed that he could be oblivious to this, not just him but his neighbours too.

So back to my place - my thinking is that I could set up a pair of standard-issue type hives in the shed but rig up some sort of pipe or ducting structure connected via a flexible corrugated pipe with a funnel-type arrangement that fits snugly over the hive entrances.

The ducting would lead up to an opening in the apex of the shed gable wall, probably via a couple of U-bends with drilled drainholes in the bottom of them, to stop any water build up. My thinking is to use PVC plumbing fittings which are cheap and robust; I'd have two entrances - probably paint them different colours so that the bees find their way into the correct pipe without getting lost.

Advantage would be that it's unlikely the neighbours would ever even realise I had them there as the entrance would be away from prying eyes and 9 feet off the ground, so the girls would be up up and away - the boundaries have several hedges around too, which obstruct direct sight-lines from the nearest neighbour's first floor balcony/deck which is 25 yards away, so I'm pretty confident that they wouldn't even know most of the time.

Inside the garage would be a fairly benign environment too, not too cold in winter and not too warm in summer.

It would be a fairly simple matter when working on the hives to close off the ducting by inserting a small sheet of metal or whatever, into a slot in the pipe, blocking off the hive entrance and then wheeling the whole thing out of the roller doors where I'd open it up. I work from home, so I could do this during the mornings on weekdays, when the neighbours are all at work/school, so further minimising potential angst.

I'd use a slotted bottom board and screened lid vents to ensure independent ventilation through the hive.

I've seen similar ducted external access arrangements used for observation hives in museums etc, not to mention wild hives living in the wall and roof cavities of houses, so I reckon the girls would be OK with a bit of a walk from hive to external entrance.

Is there any reason why this wouldn't work?

This is my site (shed circled) and shed/garage as seen from the outside - (wide angle lense, slightly distorted).










« Last Edit: December 25, 2014, 05:35:54 pm by Richard M »

Offline OldMech

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Re: Beehives in a shed?
« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2014, 03:04:08 am »
I think my only concern would be the length of the entrance tube you are considering..   I have put bees in a shed to keep the bears away from them, and fitted langstroth hives to a bottom board/entrance in the second story of a barn. All are still going strong, so the shed is not the issue provided it gets cold enough inside for the bees to cluster, and that there is places for them to escape the building when you inspect and they fly out inside of it.
   I have seen a few OB hives with PVC drain pipe extending three or four feet through the wall, but have no experience with anything longer.
39 Hives and growing.  Havent found the end of the comfort zone yet.

Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Beehives in a shed?
« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2014, 12:48:44 pm »
your link didn't work flawlessly, but I was able to locate the document easily.  It seems very reasonable and appears to have been drafted by beekeepers.

What you are proposing seems to be an attempt to skirt the rules set forth in the Code of Practice for Tasmania -- a little sneaky, perhaps.  It seems to me that if you approach the problem in a straightforward manner, talking to neighbors, etc., you might be better off.  A jar of honey might go a long way to ease things along. 

Having an entrance in the side of a shed would violate one of the practices outlined in your code -- creating a barrier such as a fence that would force the bees up above people's heads before flying out to forage.

I have two hives on a small city lot in the city of Dallas, Texas, and they are clearly visible from the street much of the year, but most people never know they are there and my nearest neighbors fully cooperate with me on my efforts and, in fact, enjoy watching the bees.  So you may be putting too much of a point on trying to avoid notice.

I wish you the best of luck in locating your hives. 

As an aside, I found it interesting that your code of practices discourages letting bees clean up equipment and spills.  In the US, we routinely do this and see no problem, so long as it's done a sufficient distance from any hive to avoid robbing.  Maybe your hive density there is much greater than ours?
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Offline Richard M

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Re: Beehives in a shed?
« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2014, 08:26:06 pm »
your link didn't work flawlessly, but I was able to locate the document easily.  It seems very reasonable and appears to have been drafted by beekeepers.

What you are proposing seems to be an attempt to skirt the rules set forth in the Code of Practice for Tasmania -- a little sneaky, perhaps.  It seems to me that if you approach the problem in a straightforward manner, talking to neighbors, etc., you might be better off.  A jar of honey might go a long way to ease things along.  

Having an entrance in the side of a shed would violate one of the practices outlined in your code -- creating a barrier such as a fence that would force the bees up above people's heads before flying out to forage.

I have two hives on a small city lot in the city of Dallas, Texas, and they are clearly visible from the street much of the year, but most people never know they are there and my nearest neighbors fully cooperate with me on my efforts and, in fact, enjoy watching the bees.  So you may be putting too much of a point on trying to avoid notice.

I wish you the best of luck in locating your hives.  

As an aside, I found it interesting that your code of practices discourages letting bees clean up equipment and spills.  In the US, we routinely do this and see no problem, so long as it's done a sufficient distance from any hive to avoid robbing.  Maybe your hive density there is much greater than ours?

Yes, I think the CoP is a good compromise and you would not believe some of the thoughtless  d--kheads posing as beekeepers, that Councils etc have to deal with - the Southern Beekeepers Association were pretty instrumental and it's a much better approach than sitting idly by while Councils draft their own bylaw, without reference to beekeepers at all. I fixed the link - tried to incorporate it into the wording but the forum software seems a bit temperamental.

Well the apex of the gable wall is a good 3m (10 feet) off the ground, probably more like 3.5m when you take into account the concrete driveway ramp so the bees initial flightpath will be significantly elevated as required by the CoP.



The CoP is about the outcome rather than specifying approaches that must be followed - the outcome in this case being that the bees exiting/approaching the hive need to be 3-4m off the ground by the time they cross an adjoining boundary to avoid neighbours getting stung or feeling intimidated. Constructing a vertical barrier to make em fly up and over is a suggested means to the required result and the most practical if you're keeping your bees in a conventional open-air apiary but by setting their landing/takeoff several metres off the ground, the same outcome is achieved.

Having formerly worked as a local govt Environmental Health Officer, my experience is that a significant proportion of the population know nothing about bees except that they (can) sting and so get nervous when they even see any hives.

As I actually don't have any unallocated space on the ground to practically place an apiary on my home lot, the shed roof is an obvious location in terms of available space and would ensure an elevated flightpath but has practical limitations, one of these being that they would be highly, highly visible, the other (perhaps more important) is that I'm not keen on working at height.

Like it or not, hive visibility is definitely an issue here, as per the matters raised in page 7 here - http://www.kingborough.tas.gov.au/webdata/resources/files/Council%20Agenda%20No.%2012%20%2023rd%20September%202013%20%28pub%29.pdf

Obviously, my immediate neighbours will need to be advised and I'll bribe em with honey each year as per normal practice; I'd need to talk them through it anyway, so they know to contact me asap if there's a swarm or whatever. I'm pretty confident I can keep my immediate neighbours (who I know reasonably well) on side but I can well imagine the nearby (50m north but not a directly adjoining property) old folks home getting shirty - see large cluster of white-roofed buildings in aerial photo, so I figure that what they don't know won't hurt them, as per the bee tree in the middle of suburbia that no one ever noticed.

Leaving extracted frames and spills out in the open is generally frowned upon here because of the increased risk of spreading disease between hives across a wide area, so when in Rome etc. We are free of many diseases here and the authorities are paranoid about quarantine and stopping them at the border; failing that, they're equally concerned to prevent the spread of anything that's already here.

The other issue in a closely settled urban setting is that you don't really want to be doing anything that attracts large numbers of bees to one spot and which has them zooming around all hot and bothered - increased risk of unfavourabe "interactions" with the neighbours etc.

Main thing I'm not sure about is how long a tube from the hives in my shed, up to the roof is practical? Is 10 feet too long/too far for em to walk?


« Last Edit: December 25, 2014, 08:54:09 pm by Richard M »

Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Beehives in a shed?
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2014, 09:37:14 pm »
Okay.  At that height, and with the rest of what you state, my objection is withdrawn.  Looks like a good plan to me.  Hoping for a visit with a friend in Sydney in a year or two and she says a sidetrip to Tasmania is a must.  In fact, she's there now while the university is on vacation, holiday, break or whatever you folks call it.

Good luck with your bees.
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Offline Richard M

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Re: Beehives in a shed?
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2014, 11:58:43 pm »
Okay.  At that height, and with the rest of what you state, my objection is withdrawn.  Looks like a good plan to me.  Hoping for a visit with a friend in Sydney in a year or two and she says a sidetrip to Tasmania is a must.  In fact, she's there now while the university is on vacation, holiday, break or whatever you folks call it.

Good luck with your bees.

Hope you enjoy the trip - best time to be here is after Jan/Feb through to end of May - that's when weather is most settled - can get warm In Jan/Feb but not humid - as a Texan you should take it in your stride.

This is the perforated/corrugated pipe I'm thinking of using for les girls - it's used for drainage, good thing is that it won't hold any water that gets in there, including condensation etc



OK, another question - is there any reason why the hive entrance can't be through the outer lid rather than at the base?
« Last Edit: December 27, 2014, 08:52:46 am by Richard M »

Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Beehives in a shed?
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2014, 01:29:49 pm »
I'll leave location of hive entrance on top to someone else, but having the hive entrance on the base is just the way most do it.  Michael Bush simply leaves an opening at the top, so I see nothing wrong with what you propose.  Are you using a screened bottom board?  I'm thinking of ventilation, but bees in hollow trees don't have ventilation, do they?  The corrugation might be a problem, but I guess the bees can live with it.  I just hate to make life more difficult for them than it already is.  What's the length of the tubing?  Short would be better, I think.

Keep the forum informed on your results.
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Offline Nico

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Re: Beehives in a shed?
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2014, 06:02:07 pm »
Hi,
A tourist shop in Kuranda (Far North Queensland) has an observation hive in the side of the shop.
The hive entrance is through the wall, outside the wall is a wedge shaped duct about a metre wide (if my memory is correct) and two metres high. The wide end of the wedge at the top is about five hundred mm. and tapers in as it comes down the wall to finish below the hive entrance, relief holes in the bottom for rain.
This shop is in a busy street in the tourist section of the town, approximately two to three metres from the footpath.
Looking at your shed photo I feel this could be a solution with your hive.
Regards Nico 

Offline Richard M

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Re: Beehives in a shed?
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2014, 06:51:44 pm »
Hi,
A tourist shop in Kuranda (Far North Queensland) has an observation hive in the side of the shop.
The hive entrance is through the wall, outside the wall is a wedge shaped duct about a metre wide (if my memory is correct) and two metres high. The wide end of the wedge at the top is about five hundred mm. and tapers in as it comes down the wall to finish below the hive entrance, relief holes in the bottom for rain.
This shop is in a busy street in the tourist section of the town, approximately two to three metres from the footpath.
Looking at your shed photo I feel this could be a solution with your hive.
Regards Nico 

Hi Nico,

I've actually seen that one, we had a trip to Cairns back in 2001 and drove up to Kuranda for a morning.




Offline Richard M

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Re: Beehives in a shed?
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2014, 07:43:02 pm »
I'll leave location of hive entrance on top to someone else, but having the hive entrance on the base is just the way most do it.  Michael Bush simply leaves an opening at the top, so I see nothing wrong with what you propose.  Are you using a screened bottom board?  I'm thinking of ventilation, but bees in hollow trees don't have ventilation, do they?  The corrugation might be a problem, but I guess the bees can live with it.  I just hate to make life more difficult for them than it already is.  What's the length of the tubing?  Short would be better, I think.

Keep the forum informed on your results.

Yes, the screened bottom board would b part of the equation; I think you're right on the corrugations too - a better alternative would be rectangular section pvc stormwater downpipe, this comes in 100mm x 50mm (4" x 2") dimensions and being square, would be easier to fit/secure  along the internal garage walls & framing; it would also give a wider "track" for the bees to walk up and down without getting crowded.

I could then run out a flat section of pipe at roof-top level to give them a wider platform to land on.

Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Beehives in a shed?
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2014, 08:03:36 pm »
They can land on the siding if they can't fly straight into the tube.  Ever seen a landing board on a hollow tree?  Didn't think so.
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Offline BlueBee

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Re: Beehives in a shed?
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2014, 12:15:11 am »
Looks like a cool project down there.  X:X

I would go with the rectangular downspout over the corrugated stuff too.  There would be less places in the rectangular downspout for wax moths to hide and it would be simpler to inspect for any problems in the future (mice, bats, comb into the tube, etc).  Those downspouts have more than enough area to accommodate normal bee hive activity.  The bees will probably fly right inside the downspout and land on the inner surface and then crawl to the hives. 

Ever seen a landing board on a hollow tree?  Didn't think so.
You're not thinking outside the box Dallas.  You've never seen my bee yard.  Yes, there are landing boards on some hollow trees  :-D

Offline Richard M

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Re: Beehives in a shed?
« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2014, 03:27:19 am »
WE don't have those big angled landing boards here like you use in the US, we don't have them on legs either, just a pair of cleats screwed to the bottom board, the whole thing sat on a timber pallette or in our case, a concrete flagstone; externally, our hive designs seem to be a lot simpler than your's but then we don't have deep snow or predators to contend with - nearest thing size-wise to a skunk or raccoon would be the Devil but they aren't an issue for bee hives.

Our landing boards are just an extension of the bottom board and are maybe 2 fingers wide.


Offline Richard M

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Re: Beehives in a shed?
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2014, 03:49:17 am »
Looks like a cool project down there.  X:X

I would go with the rectangular downspout over the corrugated stuff too.  There would be less places in the rectangular downspout for wax moths to hide and it would be simpler to inspect for any problems in the future (mice, bats, comb into the tube, etc).  Those downspouts have more than enough area to accommodate normal bee hive activity.  The bees will probably fly right inside the downspout and land on the inner surface and then crawl to the hives. 


Good point about moths and miscellaneous vermin - hadn't thought of that - in that case I think I'd be better tech-screwing the pipes together rather than gluing - that way I can easily dismantle and check the inside surfaces visually. I reckon I'll still need a length of corrugated pipe though, as the flexibility will accommodate the necessary adjustments in height as I add supers.

Only other thing was that I was thinking I'd paint the external entrances in different colours so that the girls don't go up the wrong hole (and we all know we wouldn't want that!!)

Offline Richard M

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Re: Beehives in a shed?
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2015, 12:23:10 am »
OK, well the new hives are on order, should arrive next week, so a bit of frame assembly, wiring etc coming up.

I'm going to take a couple of frames of brood/honey and bees from our existing hives into the new hive bodies (I guess these are nucs?) and bring them back here; I'm buying new queens to put in there, so how long should I wait after transferring the queen boxes to the newly set up hives? 24 hours or straight away so they don't start making new ones?




Offline OldMech

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Re: Beehives in a shed?
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2015, 01:10:25 am »
I try to wait between 12 to 20 hours, and not more than 24 hours. I have found queen cells started after 24 hours. You will know when your queens are shipped. They BETTER be coming over night!  I wont order queens without getting them overnight..
   You go out that afternoon with the Miniature guillotine and put it to work, spilling royal blood, OR, make up the nucs..  Next day the queens arrive. If it has been at LEAST 12 hours, you can immediately go out and install the cages. I prefer to wait for the 20. I want them DESPERATE for a queen, but I dont want them to have started queen cells yet.
   I will not poke a hole in the candy like I would when installing packages, which means it will take a wee bit longer for the bees to chew their way to the queen and release her. She should be out by 4 days.. remove the cage and close up the hive, DONT go looking for her. I have seen new queens balled if they were disturbed too much too soon.
      HTH! 
39 Hives and growing.  Havent found the end of the comfort zone yet.

Offline Richard M

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Re: Beehives in a shed?
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2015, 07:02:50 pm »
Well I got it up and running - 2 hives are now in my shed and egressing/accessing via pipes which penetrate the roof and  none of the neighbours even noticed until I pointed it out to them. A wee bit late to be doing splits, so it's sugar syrup and lots of it for the next few weeks.

A couple of things didn't go quite to plan and as in the military, "no plan survives contact with the enemy", so with honey bees but it all worked out in the end. Just glad I did it on a weekday when everyone was at school or at work but things were pretty calm within a day or two.

Busy this week and a couple of things need tidying up, so I'll come back with a full report later, including photos.

I requeened the day after so still don't know how it's gone as yet but fingers crossed.


Offline egel

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Re: Beehives in a shed?
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2015, 11:42:00 pm »
My uncle had a couple of hives in a very small garden shed in a retirement village. The entrance was simply a hole lined up with the hive entrance. He says they do very well and breed up very fast due to the sheltered position. The entrance was at ground level and he had a standard 6 ft fence next to the shed. Nobody ever noticed, but in the end he thought better of it and now only does it with newly captured swarms until he can get them to my property. I have 3 acres and he has passed all his bees and equipment to me. I am extremely fortunate to have his life time of knowledge to draw upon, he has been keeping bees for almost 70 years.

I think you will find they will be very productive as they will not use excess energy staying warm.

Offline Richard M

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Re: Beehives in a shed?
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2015, 07:15:05 pm »
My uncle had a couple of hives in a very small garden shed in a retirement village. The entrance was simply a hole lined up with the hive entrance. He says they do very well and breed up very fast due to the sheltered position. The entrance was at ground level and he had a standard 6 ft fence next to the shed. Nobody ever noticed, but in the end he thought better of it and now only does it with newly captured swarms until he can get them to my property. I have 3 acres and he has passed all his bees and equipment to me. I am extremely fortunate to have his life time of knowledge to draw upon, he has been keeping bees for almost 70 years.

I think you will find they will be very productive as they will not use excess energy staying warm.

What I have noticed already is that these guys are bringing back a lot more pollen (even with their much reduced numbers) compared with our hives in bushland. Despite the lateness of the summer season, there's still plenty flowering in people's gardens. I think this is actually going to be a better location, less seasonal, more constant flows.

Have to say that for my situation, seeing as I've already decided to go with all deep boxes, the http://www.honeyflow.com/ idea is looking very attractive as I only have two hives anyway. It would save a lot of mucking about.



Offline Richard M

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Re: Beehives in a shed?
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2015, 07:45:19 am »
OK, so here it is - first few weeks experience with Bees in a Shed.



Beehive in the garage with pipe from hive entrance to the roof, insides painted with blackboard paint to give the critters something to grip on.

The hive is on a frame with wheels, so I just disconnect the pipe and wheel em outside to work on them.

The field bees just fly straight back up to the roof and entrance as soon as you open the hive as their instincts tell them that there is no hive on the ground, so they go back to where they think they live. Once I close it all up and wheel back in and reconnect the pipe, any bees buzzing around are gone within a few minutes.



The bees exit and enter at rooftop height, more than 3m above the ground, with the shed ridge on one side, and a fig tree on the other, so they fly in and out without interference from or interfering with, us or the neighbours.



There's a short length of clear pipe so I can see how active they are.



No problem finding their way home.



And really quite unobtrusive from the ground. This pipe can only really be seen from in our garden.
I told the neighbours I would be doing this several weeks ago but none of them realised we actually had bees in residence until I pointed it out to them.



Main pipe is some old 50mm diam telephone ducting I was given; this fits conveniently loosely into 65mm pvc drainage (SWV) pipe, which I use in short lengths as a socket, tech-screwed rather than glued as this can be undone/dismantled and then reused.



There's also a short length of corrugated Draincoil (50mm) which allows some flexibility of movement of the pipe when connecting/disconnecting to the hive.



The pipe entrance to the hive is in 50mm, with a 65mm sleeve over, secured by a long (55mm or so) cotter (split) pin, joined by thin rope/thick string to a 65mm end cap, so that the pipe can be closed off once removed.



Being inside my shed, no lid is needed, so I just have an inner cover, or rather one of two inner covers. A length of timber braces the box to stop it being bent in and deformed by the cam-lock.

One is screened and used when not using the feeder; the other is not screened and is used with the feeder over it. It's important to make sure that the holes in the cover and the feeder are positioned to coincide.

Possibly because the shed is such a sheltered environment, ventilation through the lid may be inadequate; I initially found that when I set it up with the lid on, there was a lot of condensation under the inner cover and I had a big chalk brood problem however this has disappeared since I left the lid off.

The layer of polystyrene is intended to insulate the inner cover to reduce condensation when I had the feeder on - I think having several litres of cold syrup on the inner board was resulting in a cold bridging effect on the lower surface of the inner cover and causing condensation - not sure if it's needed but I figure it's not doing any harm to keep it.



Base modifications - timber frame with casters, timber entrance adaptor routed to fit base/entrance profile, exit hole cut (50mm+ holesaw), entrance pipe fitted and secured with timber decking screw; timber adaptor coach-bolted to base, with wingnuts for easy removal.



El Cheapo feeder, made from a cat litter tray - $2.00.




Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Beehives in a shed?
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2015, 09:25:00 am »
Congratulations.  Looks good to go. 
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Offline OldMech

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Re: Beehives in a shed?
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2015, 10:46:17 pm »
I am impressed. That is a LONG tube for them to travel through..  I didnt expect it to be that far.. interested in how that works out in the long term!
39 Hives and growing.  Havent found the end of the comfort zone yet.

Offline Richard M

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Re: Beehives in a shed?
« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2015, 01:59:06 am »
I am impressed. That is a LONG tube for them to travel through..  I didnt expect it to be that far.. interested in how that works out in the long term!

Yeah - time will tell I guess. On the brighter side, the chances of robbing are possibly somewhat reduced.

I had a few issues with them not walking up the pipe initially:

It was too slippery, so I had to run a rope down inside from the top (don't laugh) - fixed by spraying blackboard paint in there; once they'd got the idea of it, no real problems except that:

Initially I had too may bends in there, with the pipe going parallel with the floor, to a 90 degree bend, then up the wall vertically, then a 45 degree to run it under the roof, then a 90 degree to go through the roof, then the 45 degree "periscope.

They all piled up at the first corner - mayhem and a lot of dead bees in the crush - suspect they overheated.

I finally got it to work properly by shortening the pipe to a single vertical section, with a single 90 degree bend close to the entrance, keeping the pipe a straight as possible and removing the "periscope head" so they could see the light - with that and the rope in place, they figured it out immediately and there were bees flying out inside 30 seconds.

After a couple of days, I replaced the periscope head but they continued to fly in and out as before. A few days after that, I removed the rope.

They seem to accept the pipe as part of the hive, if I look for a few minutes, I'll usually see an undertaker dragging a corpse up and there's a pile of dead uns on the roof under the pipe, until it next rains.

Apart from that, the biggest problem is that I initially set up 2 hives by splitting off from our other hives "up the bush" and requeened them. Hive #1 released and accepted their queen, no dramas; hive #2 however killed their new queen, after initially failing to release her - later I found that they'd produced their own queen cell already. This queen hatched and was mated and laying ok, but after a month, went MIA, so they made yet another one by which time there were no drones around and she didn't mate, no new brood happening, so I killed her and united hive #2 with hive #1 for the winter. My own  fault - I left it too late in the year to start but can't help myself, I've always been impatient to try new ideas.

Weird thing was that hive #1 was always up and out and about pretty well as soon as light and warm enough, but hive #2 (the one with queen problems) was much later at getting up in the morning than #1.

Plan B is to keep this as a single hive for next year and pick up a swarm next Spring (Oct-Dec) to go in hive #2.

I'm pretty happy with the location though - compared with my bushland hives, these guys are laying in much more pollen and have also in 3 or 4 deep frames of honey along with 3 or 4 frames from the sugar I fed them.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2015, 02:09:53 am by Richard M »

Offline mtnb

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Re: Beehives in a shed?
« Reply #23 on: May 13, 2015, 07:49:55 am »
Wow. That sure is something. Nice out-of-the-box thinking!
I'd rather be playing with venomous insects
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Offline Eric Bosworth

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Re: Beehives in a shed?
« Reply #24 on: June 30, 2015, 10:13:51 am »
I could do something like that in my basement only I would just need to get up above the foundation and out the wall. That would keep them out of the cold in the winter and away from the bears... The problem I would have carrying them up the stairs and outside during hive management. But I do like the approach.
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Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Beehives in a shed?
« Reply #25 on: June 30, 2015, 01:16:11 pm »
Nice job. Seem to be working pretty well. I like how you worked out getting the bees to find their way out.
Jim
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
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Offline Richard M

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Re: Beehives in a shed?
« Reply #26 on: December 10, 2015, 01:00:02 am »
I could do something like that in my basement only I would just need to get up above the foundation and out the wall. That would keep them out of the cold in the winter and away from the bears... The problem I would have carrying them up the stairs and outside during hive management. But I do like the approach.

If you have a ground-level window in your basement, you wouldn't need to take them out, simply open the window and any bees that fly will just go straight to the light and into the open air and either bugger off for foraging or head back into the pipe entrance again and simply fly around the circuit until you put it all back together again.

I don't bother wheeling them outside now, I just leave a roller door open whilst I have the hives open and or a while after I've closed up the hive and generally the shed is cleared of bees within about 5 minutes or so.

Offline Richard M

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Re: Beehives in a shed? - Lessons learned and modifications made.
« Reply #27 on: December 10, 2015, 02:50:02 am »
Well a winter, spring and early summer later, I found a few teething problems but I've managed to address them without too much difficulty AND make it into a simpler set up too.

I found problems in practice were:

Bees not realising it had warmed up and outside until late in the day (because inside the garage takes longer to warm up), so they often weren't flying until much later in the day than other bees in the area. Also they were heading out too late in the day when it had cooled off, which had implications for them dying in the pipe (see below).

Dead bees building up at the bottom of the pipe, blocking the entrance, also seemed to have a bigger field bee death rate - couple of hundred a day even in winter. I think they were getting cold in there late in the day, sluggish and dying in here without making it back into the hive, especially as the entrance became progressively blocked.

On busy days, the 50mm/2" pipe was getting congested with bees entering/leaving.

Solutions

Get some through-ventilation happening - after reading Mr Bush's http://www.bushfarms.com/beestopentrance.htm I realised that an airflow up through the hive from outside would give the bees a better indication of external air temperature; a pipe straight out of the hive with no bends would also be easier to negotiate and not at risk of being blocked by dead bees.

So, I changed out the 50mm/2" for 90mm/3.5" stormwater pipe, also matt-painted internally and fitted this directly to the lid (which I made out of a piece of board), using a 90mm gutter pop screwed over an entrance hole offset in the corner. The corner offset is to avoid water dripping into the brood nest if there's rainwater ingress or condensation and to reduce updrafts directly through the brood nest.

Also 90mm pvc S/W and fittings are far cheaper than the 50mm/2" DWV I originally used..



The gutter pop screws are raised on washers to enable the insertion of a strip of acrylic to restrict or close off the entrance.







A short length of pipe is then fixed to the gutter pop. I screw rather than glue everything so that it's easily disassembled or modified.

The main pipe length (about 7'/2.1m) goes through the roof, sealed by a dektite gasket and secured by inserting through a 90mm joining sleeve, fixed to a cross member using a 90mm pipe bracket.



The pipe can then be raised/lowered in the sleeve to line up with the height of the short pipe from the lid; the two are then secured/joined using another 90mm joining sleeve, with a screw in the lower fixed pipe to stop it sliding right down.





I also fitted a 300mm/12" high timber framed fly-wire screen into the bottom of the roller door - just had to cut in new slots in the channel for the locking sliders.

This allows air at ambient temperature in from outside and through the slatted base to provide the bees with an indication of external temperature.





Adding or removing supers in then simply a matter of removing the lid, changing over the box and then sliding the long pipe up or down through the roof opening to accomodate the change in hive height before refitting the pipe to the lid.

The change in entrance height up on the roof puzzles the bees for a short time but they soon figure it out after 10 mins or so.



I've cut some small windows into the pipe and covered with clear pvc, which I roughed up with glasspaper to give the girls some grip. I've also included a sliding cover (made from a sheet of embossed black plastic), which I normally use to keep the viewing windows closed as I find that they tend to head for the light when climbing up and leaving this illuminated attracts them to the lit part of the pipe, causing congestion.



Overall I'm pretty happy with it; there have been no adverse interactions with neighbours or family - yes I've been stung twice, the second time with a nasty outcome but I put that down both times to using a shredder/mulcher close to their flightpath - it only happened twice, two or three weeks apart - I definitely think the vibration from it riles them up - so not the bees fault nor is it an issue with the setup I've got; the only time I've been stung was using this mulcher - my wife who practically lives in the garden week evenings and weekends hasn't had any problems at all, nor have any of the neighbours.

As previously discussed, because any field bees that fly out of the opened hive immediately head for the light (via the open door), I have a much quieter hive to deal with when working on it - I've had no instances of aggression whatsoever, because I'm really only dealing with hive bees and maybe a few guards.

Unfortunately, whilst I'd hoped to get a swarm soon or do a split to fill the second hive, my recent anaphylaxis incident means I've got to move them off site and be completely hands off but I'm hoping this will only be for a 6 months or so, until I can get desensitised, so my aim is to get cracking on it, bigger and better, with a second hive next Spring.

My homesite has definitely been an advantage over our bushland apiary as there's something consistently in flower pretty well every day in 10 out of 12 months, whereas our bushland site is basically all feast or famine - probably the latter for 8/12 months. Here on the edge of suburbia/bush, I've got the benefits of both worlds.

My neighbours are unexpectedly happy too as having my hives close by has given them record bean, pea, tomato, orchard and soft fruit crops and Mrs M has more and bigger raspberries this year than she thought possible..

One last benefit - no condensation problems under the lid.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2015, 03:56:09 am by Richard M »

Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Beehives in a shed?
« Reply #28 on: December 11, 2015, 12:29:29 pm »
Richard,
One thing that I did to the entrance to my observation hive was in the one inch tube I added a ladder made out of #8 wire cloth. It is 1/2" by the length of the tube. It makes it much easier for the bees to get in and out. They spend a lot less time walking throught the tube and it allows them to carry things out.
Jim
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

Offline Richard M

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Re: Beehives in a shed?
« Reply #29 on: December 14, 2015, 07:34:35 am »
Richard,
One thing that I did to the entrance to my observation hive was in the one inch tube I added a ladder made out of #8 wire cloth. It is 1/2" by the length of the tube. It makes it much easier for the bees to get in and out. They spend a lot less time walking throught the tube and it allows them to carry things out.
Jim

That's not a bad idea; I've noticed on a cold night after a warm day with lots of nectar/honey being dewatered, they can get a lot of condensation in the pipe which makes it quite slippery until it dries out - a 1' wide length of fly-screen wire might be the G.O.

Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Beehives in a shed?
« Reply #30 on: December 14, 2015, 12:09:14 pm »
That will probably work real well. Try to attach it stretched tight to one side of the pipe, otherwise it can tend to block sections that the bees have to work their way around.
Jim
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

Offline Richard M

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Re: Beehives in a shed?
« Reply #31 on: December 14, 2015, 09:49:26 pm »
That will probably work real well. Try to attach it stretched tight to one side of the pipe, otherwise it can tend to block sections that the bees have to work their way around.
Jim

And I've got heaps of the stuff too - I do like freeby solutions.