Author Topic: VERY angry bees (Read 3397 times)

brolib · « **on:** August 07, 2021, 04:29:09 pm »

I have a deep box that is warping and allowing for more entrances than I would like. With a plan to replace the bottom deep, I removed the second deep and supers and stirred things up a bit. When I broke the bottom, warped super from the bottom board all hell broke loose! I thought I could finish the job, but the bees were having none of it. I headed for the thickest, closest brush I could find to lose the mob and returned to the mess that was my now disassembled hive. Bees everywhere! and they were angry! and they saw me as the enemy. I threw the top cover on best I could and skedaddled. That was yesterday. This morning I put on my sting-proof jacket, tied my pant legs around my ankles, put on heavy gloves and approached the hive. 20 feet away and they were all over me. At this point I would mind if this hive died but I feel I have a responsibility to get it back together and requeen. Would spring the bees with 1:1 syrup help to keep them off me while I reassemble the hive? I'm open to suggestions.

beesnweeds · « **Reply #1 on:** August 07, 2021, 05:52:52 pm »

Did you use smoke? Bees can get more defensive during a dearth.

Ben Framed · « **Reply #2 on:** August 07, 2021, 06:06:48 pm »

Good question beesnweeds: I would wear my jacket as you described brolib. Make sure the jacket bottom is snug around your waist. Since my jacket has aged, I use and elastic belt around the compleat jacket on the outside of the jacket, this leaves a snug safe secure 'bee barrier or blockade' wear the gloves, (with added rubber bands around the sleeves for a barrier), long pants etc. simply for the purpose of a confidence builder and as well as protection. I would then use Bemaster 2s' way of gentling bees with the smoker, grit my teeth, and have at em.

When well protected as described they should not be able to get to you, though the sound of buzzing all around and about you may be slightly intimidating, especially around you veil area. Pay it no attention since you know your are well protected. If you do happen to receive a sting from time to time grit those teeth and keep working. lol

This was my suggestion to myself with I did my first cutout obtaining my first bees. Actually after a little while of confusion. That experience 'broke me in' to beekeeping with confidence... To answer your question; If done as described you should not need sugar water. Unlike a balled swarm which is already pretty much intact upon approach. I almost always use sugar water in that case of shanking the swarm into a box, unless I use my bee vac, then no sugar with vac use is my approach...
Wishing you the best.

Phillip

Oldbeavo · « **Reply #3 on:** August 07, 2021, 06:25:52 pm »

If they are that bad, though we don't have an answer on smoke usage, get upwind and drift some smoke onto the hive.
Then smoke the hive and leave it for 10 min.
Resmoke hive and leave 2 min.
Bit more smoke and as you take off each super put it on a solid base and cover it. Repeat for all boxes so you are only dealing with the bees in the bottom box. Others are locked away.

If you used smoke the first time and they were that bad, and they are still nasty on the second attempt, if you find the queen then pinch her.
As I am a few miles away someone more local could let you know if it is too late in the season to have them form another queen. Idealy if you could buy a mated queen it would be better. Postpone your box replacement till you have a new queen.

brolib · « **Reply #4 on:** August 07, 2021, 06:31:42 pm »

I used smoke yesterday, but pulling the bottom deep from the bottom board trumped any effect the smoke may have had. I didn't get stung above the waist except through some webbing between the leather gloves and canvas further up the gauntlet. My heavy denim pants were covered with stingers left behind, probably 100 or more. The ones that got through my pants were more pings than stings. Not too bad. Some found their way between my tied-off pants ankles and my high-top work shoes. One even got through and got me on the calf. I hate it when the get in my pant leg and head north. Very distracting.
Didn't get close enough to smoke this morning. I'll have it fired up before I get within 100 feet next time.
I'll go in fully armed and armored, "grit my teeth" and "have at 'em". Thanks for the advise.
Yes, that queen is toast. I just put some queen cells in mating nucs earlier yesterday. Hope those work out well.

brolib · « **Reply #5 on:** August 07, 2021, 06:34:07 pm »

Oldbeavo, good advise on the smoke. Many times I'll give a few puffs and jump right in.

Ben Framed · « **Reply #6 on:** August 07, 2021, 08:30:26 pm »

Something else which helped me in two ways. Lightweight parachute type loose fitting pants. Cooler than denim and being loose, while moving about it is harder for the bees to connect to skin, (sting). (Pants not against legs or skin seems to be is a huge plus from my experience.

BeeMaster2 · « **Reply #7 on:** August 07, 2021, 09:16:05 pm »

To answer your first question, yes, spraying sugar water over the open boxes helps to keep them on the frames. Use it liberally. Make it 1-2 or 1-1. Sometimes that is all that I use and quite often sugar water during cutouts after smoking them as described below.
Jim Altmiller

TheHoneyPump · « **Reply #8 on:** August 08, 2021, 12:07:39 am »

There are times when one must stop trying to control the bees and instead focus on the job at hand. Put on the protection and go in with a plan. Smoke or no smoke. Sugar spray or no spray. Just ignore the bees and get the work done.
The only times we need to try to control temperament of the bees and are careful is if we are wanting to protect the queen from harm or disruption. In this case the OP described she is the least of the concern, so why bother.
There are times when we walk into the beeyard suited up with a mass of disruptive work to do .. and do not light single smoker. We are done and out in a fraction of the time than had we tried to control the bees.
So yeah; buckle up, take a deep breath, grit the teeth, clench the gloved hands, and let er buck.

brolib · « **Reply #9 on:** August 08, 2021, 12:57:30 pm »

I got the problem bees corralled in a hive with only the front door and top entrance for coming and going. Although they weren't "shaking hands friendly", they were downright cordial compared to yesterday. Smoked them heavily. Anyway I got the job done.
Thanks for all the good advise! It's good to know this forum is here for us tenderfeet. Especially liked HP's advise. He addressed attitude. Gotta admit this hive had me spooked some. I "buckled up, grit my teeth, clenched the gloved hand and let 'er buck". (People don't talk like that in Indiana. Think it may be cowboy lingo

.) Also, put on my big boy pants and got out of there with nary a sting.

Ben Framed · « **Reply #10 on:** August 08, 2021, 01:57:18 pm »

Sometimes that is the best option, let em buck and hang on!! lol

FloridaGardener · « **Reply #11 on:** August 10, 2021, 09:51:33 am »

Had to put down a quasi-africanized colony this year. They simply were berserk and mean, flew out stinging each time.

Use mega personal protective equipment! (PPE!)
Slide a coroplast or tin between hive bodies and lock in the bees you aren't working. Now, fewer to deal with at one time.

If you have power in the bee yard, bring a wet/dry a shop vac with soapy water in the bottom. You can't catch the flying bees, but you can vac up the ones that are clustered on your clothers trying to group-sting through your PPE. The sound of the motor drowns out their stinging roar, and then it seemed calmer to me. Ignore the bees and do what you have to do.

In my case, I sealed top & bottom of each hive body, bees inside, in double-layer yard waste bags. They went to sleep in the freezer. After 48 hours I saved what comb/resourced I could. Brood is food for chickens.

Michael Bush · « **Reply #12 on:** August 11, 2021, 04:23:57 pm »

If I intend to work several hives I start by smoking all of them. Then I resmoke the one I intend to work and wait a couple of minutes. Then I pop the top (which often makes a literal "pop") and I wait a minute for the buzz to die back down from the "pop". Then I gently pry that up and blow some smoke across the top. Now I'm ready to work the hive. When I smoke the next hive, I smoke the rest again and come back and smoke the one I'm going to open again and the next one etc.

JurassicApiary · « **Reply #13 on:** August 15, 2021, 02:03:43 pm »

Hi have a slightly modified approach to Michael's above. I find that for my timing purposes, I smoke 2 hives at a time.

Before I start I smoke the first two hives that I intend to open. Then I walk away and finish setting up for 5-10 minutes. When I come back, I give the entrance a good puff of both of them again and then open the first, one quick puff across the top bars, they all retreat and I work.

When I close up the first hive, I advance to the next hive which I've already smoked. I smoke it quickly one more time and then smoke the next one that I will do, keeping ahead of myself by a hive. This way in the time it takes me to inspect the current hive, the smoke is prepping the next hive already when I get to it.

So, I am always staying ahead of myself by a hive which in my case times out wonderfully. If I get too far ahead with hives, I find it is unnecessarily disruptive to them, so my suggestion is to smoke hives in advance of yourself based on your inspection pace.

TheHoneyPump · « **Reply #14 on:** August 21, 2021, 11:12:22 pm »

Great method JA.

Bob Wilson · « **Reply #15 on:** August 25, 2021, 08:53:28 am »

Jurassic. That's the same way I do it. Always smoking the next hive before I work on the present one. It also encourages me not to waste time which angers the bees, but to get in and out quickly.
I am still trying to learn when a hive needs to be requeened because of aggressive genetics, and when they are simply cranky because of a temporary trouble. This spring one hive was mean several weeks. Then it quieted down during the flow and is still gentle today.

paus · « **Reply #16 on:** August 25, 2021, 11:56:12 am »

Most of my hives have an attitude. Don't make eye contact with them. Seriously, I do have mean hives and I was wondering. Do aggressive hives have less mite trouble, and one old timer told me that he believes mean colonies make more honey.

Brian MCquilkin · « **Reply #17 on:** August 25, 2021, 12:05:37 pm »

Quote from: paus on August 25, 2021, 11:56:12 am

Most of my hives have an attitude. Don't make eye contact with them. Seriously, I do have mean hives and I was wondering. Do aggressive hives have less mite trouble, and one old-timer told me that he believes mean colonies make more honey.

I've had some very aggressive hives and have seen them with high mite loads and seen them crash. Aggressive or not mites are aproblem.

BeeMaster2 · « **Reply #18 on:** August 26, 2021, 07:34:38 am »

Paus,
When I was buying my first nuc, there was an old Beek looking in the nucs. He opened each one until he found the ones that stung him and bought them. He claimed that they made more honey.
My dad gave my father in law a swarm that we had to hose down and put them in a bucket during a big g party at his house. My father warned him that they would be mean. He had to that hive for over 10 years. It was always mean and always the biggest honey producer.
Jim Altmiller

Ben Framed · « **Reply #19 on:** August 26, 2021, 08:57:23 am »

Jim & Paus Personally I would not mind bees which would be a little aggressive. With ventilated equipment this problem can be basically overcome or solved.. Fortunately my bees are pretty gentle. The main reason I like 'gentle bees' is here in the South the heat of the hot sun can be pretty rough. I expect where yall live it is even rougher. Going jacketless is a real treat for me. Even though I have a ventilated jacket, and do use it when I am in a hurry. I do not enjoy wearing it unless I take along a fan which makes all the difference on those hot summer days of no breeze with the baking sun beating down, making a camel wish he had an oasis with palm trees for shade and plenty cool clear water lol...