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Author Topic: An Idea For Dealing With High Moisture Content In Honey  (Read 1321 times)

Online Ben Framed

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An Idea For Dealing With High Moisture Content In Honey
« on: July 02, 2022, 03:20:33 pm »
Your thoughts?




 
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Online BeeMaster2

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Re: An Idea For Dealing With High Moisture Content In Honey
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2022, 08:56:17 pm »
You might try the way that Bill Murray does it. He puts a dehumidifier in a small room and hangs the frames in the room. It think he leaves them there for one day and they dry up.
Jim Altmiller

Online Ben Framed

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Re: An Idea For Dealing With High Moisture Content In Honey
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2022, 05:39:03 pm »
It is my understanding that high moisture content honey is best dehumidified before extraction. Bills' way works for him and I commend him. We have had some good discussions here at Beemaster about this problem. We discussed multiple ways of solving the problem. Even on a large scale, such as Bob Binnies way was also shown and posted here with a video, then discussed.  One thing we did not come to a conclusion on, (if I recall correctly), was how to effectively deal with high moisture content honey (after) extraction with success? This video deals with that problem.

Phillip
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV

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Re: An Idea For Dealing With High Moisture Content In Honey
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2022, 06:02:55 pm »
I have used a dehumidifier in a small room and dripped the honey from one bucket on the sink to a bucket sitting on the floor. The slower the drip the better. I also put a small fan aimed at the stream of honey. Before I bought the dehumidifier I did the same thing but it took longer to dry out.
Jim Altmiller

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: An Idea For Dealing With High Moisture Content In Honey
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2022, 06:54:05 am »
Dehumidifiers work.  I think it works better still in the combs because of the increase in surface area.  Carl Killion wrote about doing this for his comb honey and had some very scientific work on the topic.  But it also works after it's extracted.  And the more surface area, the better it works.
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Offline BurleyBee

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Re: An Idea For Dealing With High Moisture Content In Honey
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2022, 11:33:04 am »
I harvested 300 lbs 2 weeks ago.  I closed off my foyer with plastic drop cloths.  Stacked boxes on a couple 2x4.  Placed box fans on top.  Ran fans and dehumidifier for 2 days.  Dropped moisture from 18.5 to 15.5.
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: An Idea For Dealing With High Moisture Content In Honey
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2022, 01:12:56 pm »
>Dropped moisture from 18.5 to 15.5.

Good job.
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Offline Acebird

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Re: An Idea For Dealing With High Moisture Content In Honey
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2022, 09:02:32 am »
The issue I have with circulating air is it puts dirt into the honey unless the honey is within a class 1 clean room.  Definitely it is better to do this while still in the frame when the honey is capped.
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Offline NigelP

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Re: An Idea For Dealing With High Moisture Content In Honey
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2022, 09:11:39 am »

dropped moisture from 18.5 to 15.5.

Struggling to understand why you would do this. Is the legal water content lower in the states than the UK?
Here anything 20% or less is legal honey. Lots of my summer blossom is 18-19%.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: An Idea For Dealing With High Moisture Content In Honey
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2022, 10:10:31 am »
It's because of fermentation .

Processing Honey: A Closer Look: Bee Culture
https://www.beeculture.com ? proce...
Honey with a low spore count of one per gram will usually not ferment with a moisture content of up to 19%. Honey with a spore count of ten per gram needs to be 18.6% moisture or lower to be safe. A high spore count of 1,000 or more needs to have 17% moisture or lower, or fermentation can occur.
Mar 27, 2018
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV

Online BeeMaster2

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Re: An Idea For Dealing With High Moisture Content In Honey
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2022, 01:24:48 pm »
The issue I have with circulating air is it puts dirt into the honey unless the honey is within a class 1 clean room.  Definitely it is better to do this while still in the frame when the honey is capped.
Ace,
The bees cap honey to keep the honey from absorbing moisture. Therefore it also will not allow the honey to dry out if it is capped.
Putting the supers in a dehumidified room with a fan is to dry the un capped honey.
Jim Altmiller

Online Ben Framed

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Re: An Idea For Dealing With High Moisture Content In Honey
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2022, 02:04:46 pm »
From the TOPIC: "Fermentation?"
Mr Binnie discusses drying capped honey around 18:40, though he states this method is not ideal 'for capped honey'. Mr Binnie discusses this and other aspects of moisture and fermentation as well. A good video!

Phillip


Quote

I'll see if I can find that video
, Bob Binnie always has great advice.  While it is unfortunate, it's yet another opportunity to learn, which I am always grateful for.  :smile:

I found it.  He discusses many outlooks including cold, heat, taste of honey, etc. enjoy!


« Last Edit: July 12, 2022, 12:04:27 am by Ben Framed »
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV

Offline BurleyBee

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Re: An Idea For Dealing With High Moisture Content In Honey
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2022, 06:38:22 pm »

dropped moisture from 18.5 to 15.5.

Struggling to understand why you would do this. Is the legal water content lower in the states than the UK?
Here anything 20% or less is legal honey. Lots of my summer blossom is 18-19%.

Fermentation, and I think it just makes for a better product.
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Online Ben Framed

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Re: An Idea For Dealing With High Moisture Content In Honey
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2022, 07:03:34 pm »
Burley simply for the sake of curiosity,  what kind of honey was it?

Phillip
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV

Offline BurleyBee

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Re: An Idea For Dealing With High Moisture Content In Honey
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2022, 08:17:52 pm »
Mainly Tallow. Last year it was 21, but was very humid on harvest day.  This year it was 100 degrees but only 35% humidity.  Maybe that was the difference.  Honey was also darker (amber) this year.
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Online Ben Framed

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Re: An Idea For Dealing With High Moisture Content In Honey
« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2022, 08:42:24 pm »
Thanks Burley, the lower humidity must have helped.

Another video, (a short video), by Bob Binnie concerning moisture and honey.


If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV

Offline NigelP

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Re: An Idea For Dealing With High Moisture Content In Honey
« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2022, 02:35:53 am »
It's because of fermentation .

Processing Honey: A Closer Look: Bee Culture
https://www.beeculture.com ? proce...
Honey with a low spore count of one per gram will usually not ferment with a moisture content of up to 19%. Honey with a spore count of ten per gram needs to be 18.6% moisture or lower to be safe. A high spore count of 1,000 or more needs to have 17% moisture or lower, or fermentation can occur.
Mar 27, 2018
Ben at 20% moisture I've yet to see any ferment........Just a practical observation. Not sure where your spore counts come into it, osmophilic yeasts cannot ferment below 20% regardless of their numbers.

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Re: An Idea For Dealing With High Moisture Content In Honey
« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2022, 07:37:42 am »
Nigel,
I just had an entire batch of honey crystallize and start to ferment. It was at 18.5 when we bottled it.  I melted it in my honey heater, 104 degrees. It has started to crystallize again. Judy has been making creamed honey out of it. Some of it has a fermented taste but she likes it and some of our customers really like it. The good thing is that it is now stable.
Jim Altmiller

Online Ben Framed

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Re: An Idea For Dealing With High Moisture Content In Honey
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2022, 07:38:06 am »
Nigel I personally have not had fermenting honey problems. When I first heard of this problem experienced by members here at Beemaster some time ago concerning fermenting honey I was puzzled as a newer beekeeper at the time. This was a new subject for me. 

When I ran across the video above, I remembered those past discussions and placed the video in my first post here.  Yet another method for dealing with high moisture content In Honey with hopes it might help anyone that has experienced fermenting problems in the past. For this cause I posted the original video, hoping it may be of service. Beside that I know little of fermenting honey. Mainly what has been discussed here in the past. I am no expert on this matter. 🙂

Phillip
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV

Offline NigelP

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Re: An Idea For Dealing With High Moisture Content In Honey
« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2022, 12:23:18 pm »
Nigel,
I just had an entire batch of honey crystallize and start to ferment. It was at 18.5 when we bottled it.  I melted it in my honey heater, 104 degrees. It has started to crystallize again. Judy has been making creamed honey out of it. Some of it has a fermented taste but she likes it and some of our customers really like it. The good thing is that it is now stable.
Jim Altmiller


If I recall my chemistry correctly when honey crystallises the water content increases in some areas. As the crystals  form the water content of the honey rises, although that water later becomes trapped as Water of hydration in the crystals themselves. That said I store in buckets and let it crystallise with (to date) no problem. Mind, in the UK temperatures most of the year round it would be too cold for yeasts to work the honey even it was below that 20% threshold  :smile:.  Osmophilic yeasts simply cannot multiply in honey with 20% water content (or less).
The only honey we get fermentation problems with is Heather honey which is allowed to be sold  up to 23% water content. This is the only honey I take the trouble to make sure is below 20% moisture before extraction and placing in buckets.  I use a Lyson supers dryer which blows warm air through a stack of supers.