Welcome, Guest

Author Topic: Below ground Locating  (Read 53526 times)

Offline BoBn

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 195
  • Gender: Male
    • h
Below ground Locating
« on: January 29, 2010, 10:23:22 am »
I have been using 2 pieces of brass rod to locate underground pipes and wires. 

I first tried it about 10 years ago with a couple of coat hangers when I was looking for the septic tank for my old farm house.  I was able to find the tank and clay pipes on my 1st try.  Then I started walking back and forth across my back yard and found some old abandoned wooden pipes, underground wire, and my polypipe waterline from my well. 

Over the years I have used this technique to find mower parts that had vibrated off while mowing my fields, tools that were lost, and have found many pieces of junk.  I have also found jewelry and coins.   

At work, I use ferro-magnetic locators, ground-penetrating radar and radio location equipment, but I also use a pair of rods.

I don't know why a couple of bent rods work. My theory is that somehow I am locating slight disruptions in the earth's magnetic field.

There is a fancy low-tec commercially available device that works somewhat like my brass rods, but I doubt if it works any better.
http://www.farwestcorrosion.com/fwst/instrum/magnetomatic.htm 
"Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch toward uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one-half the world fools and the other half hypocrites."
--Thomas Jefferson

Offline Sparky

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 804
  • Gender: Male
Re: Below ground Locating
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2010, 08:42:42 pm »
You truly are one of the gifted ones. That is the way my parents had their well located when I was a kid, to drill for water and I thought the man was a crackpot when he told them where to drill and how far and how much water they could get. He was very close on all. Many of us have tried it with none that could get the rods to respond.

Offline BoBn

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 195
  • Gender: Male
    • h
Re: Below ground Locating
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2010, 03:49:51 pm »
he told them where to drill and how far and how much water they could get. He was very close on all.

I don't have any accurate idea of what I find.  For me, a large thing is deeply buried is similar in "signal strength" to a small thing that is closer to the surface.

When I locate, I don't focus on anything in particular.  I just walk along.  I had my kids try it, and it works for them too. 

I think that it is something that can be learned.  Like training the sense of smell:
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/59335.php
"Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch toward uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one-half the world fools and the other half hypocrites."
--Thomas Jefferson

Offline ayyon2157

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 107
Re: Below ground Locating
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2010, 06:43:55 pm »
hello BoBn:

     Very closely related is the act of holding a piece of thread to which a needle is attached and asking it questions.  Tell it how you want it to respond (such as transcribing a circle or swinging back and forth for either "yes" or "no")

    There are apparently "rules" as to what it will answer accurately and what it won't.  I can get lottery numbers all night long, but no winners.

     Some people claim success in "dowsing" over a map, or using an "ouija" board.

ayyon2157
William H. Michaels

Offline Brian D. Bray

  • Heavenly Beekeeper
  • Heavenly Beekeeper
  • Galactic Bee
  • ********
  • Posts: 7369
  • Gender: Male
  • I really look like this, just ask Cindi.
    • http://spaces.msn.com/thecoonsden
Re: Below ground Locating
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2010, 11:23:07 pm »
Dowsing can be done a number of ways:
1. Using a forked stick.
2. Using a straight stick.
3. Using metal rods:
    a. One each of two different metals
    b. Two of 1 kind of metal
    c.  One single iron rod
    d.  One single copper rod
4. Using 2 crossed sticks or rods.

For me using a long iron rod, like a digging bar, works best.  If I walk slowly with the bar balanced in my hand it will always pull point down and out of my hand as it passes over either buried pipes or water.  If you dig where the point hits the ground you'll find the pipe or water source (which is often the same).
Life is a school.  What have you learned?   :brian:      The greatest danger to our society is apathy, vote in every election!

Offline Humanbeeing

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 142
  • Gender: Male
Re: Below ground Locating
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2011, 06:47:31 am »
I believe it is a electro magnetic disruption of some sort. I also use two rods. Mine are brazing rods without flux, bent to a 90 degree angle. When I cross over anything buried, I get a slight electric tingle in my hands, from the rods, and they turn inward.
Have you heard of people that find buried gold and silver using infrared photography? They claim the buried metels create an anomoly from the magnetic reactions with the sun. They say the more activity on the sun, the easier it is to detect.
HELP! I accidently used Drone eggs with the Hopkins method and I got Drag Queens!!!

Offline VolunteerK9

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 1647
  • Gender: Male
  • Gamecock fan in UT land.
Re: Below ground Locating
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2011, 12:13:08 pm »
My dad can 'water witch' too. Its amazing to watch. He uses a forked branch and you can see the bark twist off the wood as it turns down.

Offline AllenF

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 8192
  • Gender: Male
Re: Below ground Locating
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2011, 02:36:07 pm »
I use to find water lines with 2 pieces of #4 bare copper wire, but we don't do to much digging anymore with the construction bust.   The last couple of times, I just grabbed 2 of the plastic locater flags that they mark the underground utilities with.   Just pull the plastic flag off and bent the wire.   Bingo.  People think you are crazy using them, but they work.   

Offline AllenF

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 8192
  • Gender: Male
Re: Below ground Locating
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2011, 02:38:45 pm »

Offline Troutdog

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 140
Dowsing redux
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2012, 09:26:49 am »
New to the forum but didn't see any further discussion on dowsing and thought I'd add a thing or two that can bring the relevance dowsing to beekeeping.
While most folks recognize the fact it works for water witching there is a whole lot of other energy fields we can measure with dowsing. One of these is in fact of huge importance to the bees and their stewards. There are energy lines that circulate electromagnetic force on t he earth and north of the equator they move from south to north and west to east. These are called Hartmann lines. They vary slightly based on latitude but are essentially 3 meters wide. The closer tot h e equator the wider and to the pole smaller.
Wherein these lines are easily detected using rods or whatever you chose here's the interesting thing I found.
Ever wonder why in a strip of hives one is doing really really well with many supers on top and others are not even close. Well me too! After a small sampling of 20 or so apiaries I noticed a trend of major production occurring when the hives were on at lease one of the lines and even more so when a hive was located on both a north and east line.  Further within my own apiary I have moved less productive hives to a grid point and have been quite satisfied with the rebound and increase both in health and output. Now I make no claims that this is the end all solution but I will say there is a phenomena occurring here that is worthy of quite a bit more research. I am curious for those of you that dowse or have a friend that dowses if you would let me know if you are observing the same in your continent and location. For the skeptics dowsing does indeed work and is an ancient art. Unfortunately there are quite a few flakes out there with notions that are not based in any science or deeper understanding of electromagnetic fields and earth science. Probably best to just learn to do it yourself and see what you see. It is a birthright as opposed to some hocus locus skill.  The key is To just stay relaxed and focused on what you are looking for "........in this case just focus on Hartmann energy lines. Find them and start to make a grid and see for yourself.

Thanks to all the great posters here and for the forum moderators.

Offline beee farmer

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 387
  • Gender: Male
Re: Below ground Locating
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2014, 02:56:22 am »
I used the double wire method all my life to find buried plumbing, telco and electric lines. I'd say overall I have averaged 80% hit rate.  Thought about it a lot and think that the subconscious is able to detect indications of previous ditching or plowing of the soils that the conscious is unable to see, thereby crossing the rods subconsciously.  Just a theory!  "I wanna Believe"
"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do"  Benjamin Franklin

Offline jayj200

  • Queen Bee
  • ****
  • Posts: 1401
Re: Below ground Locating
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2014, 09:40:29 am »
hello BoBn:

     Very closely related is the act of holding a piece of thread to which a needle is attached and asking it questions.  Tell it how you want it to respond (such as transcribing a circle or swinging back and forth for either "yes" or "no")

    There are apparently "rules" as to what it will answer accurately and what it won't.  I can get lottery numbers all night long, but no winners.

   

use the numbers it does not chose

Offline Lenabee

  • New Bee
  • *
  • Posts: 4
  • Gender: Female
Re: Below ground Locating
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2021, 08:12:36 am »
wow, very interesting topic

Online BeeMaster2

  • Administrator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 13523
  • Gender: Male
Re: Below ground Locating
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2021, 08:30:02 am »
Lenabee,
During BeeFest 2019, Troutdog (Tom) did a class on dousing. It was extremely interesting. I use it to locate hive stands. I have also used it to find my lost iPhone when I had no idea and found it in the middle of my then 42 acre ranch. It worked. Without it I didn?t have a chance of finding it were we did in the middle of a brushy field.
Jim Altmiller
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

Online Ben Framed

  • Global Moderator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 12605
  • Mississippi Zone 7
Re: Below ground Locating
« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2021, 05:16:51 pm »
Lenabee,
During BeeFest 2019, Troutdog (Tom) did a class on dousing. It was extremely interesting. I use it to locate hive stands. I have also used it to find my lost iPhone when I had no idea and found it in the middle of my then 42 acre ranch. It worked. Without it I didn?t have a chance of finding it were we did in the middle of a brushy field.
Jim Altmiller

OK Jim, the cell phone find finally sold me......   Thanks. 
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline Occam

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 311
  • Gender: Male
Re: Below ground Locating
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2023, 09:45:40 am »
I witch lines quite frequently in plumbing. Sure, we have line locators and advanced technology but it mostly doesn't work on pipes and can be cost prohibitive. I'd be lying if I said I got it 💯 every time but it works more than it doesn't for me. Fascinating topic and practice, and intriguing idea of Troutdogs with the Hartman lines
Entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity

Offline NigelP

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 269
  • Gender: Male
Re: Below ground Locating
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2023, 11:30:14 am »
In the UK they douse for Ley lines and hives sited on these supposedly do better than those not sited on them.
The problem I have is a mate who is a big a believer of this and has told me that non of my hives are on ley lines yet they produce 4x as much honey as his that are situated on them.
I simply believe siting strong hives near good forage and bit of decent foraging weather is the more simple solution.

Offline Michael Bush

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 19905
  • Gender: Male
    • bushfarms.com
Re: Below ground Locating
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2023, 04:21:43 pm »
>The problem I have is a mate who is a big a believer of this and has told me that non of my hives are on ley lines yet they produce 4x as much honey as his that are situated on them.

:)
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--James "Big Boy" Medlin

Offline animal

  • Queen Bee
  • ****
  • Posts: 1077
  • Gender: Male
Re: Below ground Locating
« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2023, 04:16:25 am »
Dunno ... I think that most belief in dowsing is due to a combination of confirmation bias and luck. However, there do seem to be some cases where a particular person seems to have almost uncanny success with the method. From personal experience, I would lean toward the rods (or whatever else is used) acting as a crutch to access the subconscious.
Humans just can't be still. As steady as we think we are, we are constantly moving. Anyone that successfully shoots knows the effect of breathing. Do some long distance shooting with a scope and you can see the effect of the heart. Beyond that, there are micro-tremors caused by minute muscle contractions, of which we are almost entirely unaware. The dowsing rods are constructed so that they are extremely sensitive to movement or tilt. Thus, it would be very easy to cause movement in them without being aware of doing it.
If the unconscious movements of your body are being directed by the subconscious, the rods would seem to move on their own. If the subconscious is using information from prior experience, it could account for accuracy. The fun thing is ... you may be unaware of the information the subconscious is using ... since you may not have consciously noticed it when you received it.
There are no scientifically controlled studies that I know of that have ever shown dowsing to be effective. There have been a few studies that point to the stuff i described above as being how a ouija board works (when people aren't just shoving it around) ... no spirits or magic needed.
My personal experience" is through self hypnosis/relaxation techniques and visualization and I have found pipes and cell phones through it. (and why this thread got my attention). Finding the last cell phone was by remembering my foot hitting something while crawling through attic insulation. The last pipe was a septic line.. after sitting in the middle of the yard and going through my little routine, I opened my eyes and suddenly saw differences in the grass that I hadn't been able to see before... first jab with the probe and bingo!
But... everything I have said may be a result of my own confirmation bias. Science is a process to find truth, not a system of beliefs.
Avatar pic by my oldest daughter (ink and watercolor)

Offline NigelP

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 269
  • Gender: Male
Re: Below ground Locating
« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2023, 05:08:43 am »
One Million Dollar Paranormal Challenge Randi Prize
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Million_Dollar_Paranormal_Challenge

As no-one has ever proved they had paranormal ability and over 1000 people have tried....and it including dowsing.... the challenge has been dropped.

Offline Michael Bush

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 19905
  • Gender: Male
    • bushfarms.com
Re: Below ground Locating
« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2023, 07:17:12 am »
Most of the people I know who believe in dowsing do not believe it is paranormal.  It does sound like more of a pseudo science to me, but they believe it's something like ley lines or magnetism...
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--James "Big Boy" Medlin

Offline animal

  • Queen Bee
  • ****
  • Posts: 1077
  • Gender: Male
Re: Below ground Locating
« Reply #21 on: May 01, 2023, 08:40:31 am »
seems like any electromagnetic effect strong to move the rods would be easily detected with modern tech. An electroscope kinda looks like dowsing rods to me, but it won't find water 30' underground..
Sorry, I consider ley lines to be in the same category as magic, spirits, pyramid energy, and the like.
Then again there are some "scientific" views of dark energy, wormholes and magnetic monopoles ... maybe the dowsers can solve some questions there ?
Avatar pic by my oldest daughter (ink and watercolor)

Online BeeMaster2

  • Administrator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 13523
  • Gender: Male
Re: Below ground Locating
« Reply #22 on: May 01, 2023, 10:52:52 pm »
Animal,
Troutdog taught me how to douse during BeeFest 2019. He made a living dousing for minerals for mineral mining communities. They wouldn?t have hired him if he couldn?t pinpoint where to dig or drill. He was correct 80% of the time. Keep in mind they have all kinds of sensors and electro magnetic graphing but they still hired a rouser.
I use it but very hesitantly. It definitely does work. How it works is a little scary. It is like you are asking some greater force for information. You first ask 3 questions for permission for the information. It seems to me like the universe is somehow connected and we are tapping into that connection for information. It is almost like the movie Avatar.
Like I said, scary.
Jim Altmiller

Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

Offline animal

  • Queen Bee
  • ****
  • Posts: 1077
  • Gender: Male
Re: Below ground Locating
« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2023, 03:47:29 am »
Beemaster2
Sorry, haven't seen the movie.
I actually do not doubt that some people are successful dowsers and I don't mean to be disparaging of them. I am suggesting that the dowser may be underestimating his own abilities and knowledge, attributing them to an outside force, and constructing a false image of something greater than himself.
I do believe in "true magic" ... in the sense of something that works and is inexplicable to the observer, but explainable with enough work. Attempting to explain things makes us better, as does most any work, but sometimes taking a break to just appreciate the magic of successful dowsers or quantum mechanics is good too.
I also think that belief in something greater than himself and striving to make himself better, is what defines a man as human and "special" among the animals. Personally, I tend to loosely equate this to the "soul" or "image of the creator" , but that's another subject. I would say that if a man considers a part of himself of which he is unaware .. to be greater than himself, it takes his focus off of that which actually is greater. A case of "know thyself, so that you will know what you are not."
As for scary? The things I fear the most are things that are within me and must be controlled. The abyss is within us. When it stares back, we must defeat it ...kind of thing
Your friend with the 80% success rate. I would bet that over the years he has accumulated a lot of knowledge of the land. I would further bet that he is using some of that knowledge without being aware of it. The three question for permission thing sounds like a ritual relaxation technique and, if it is, can induce an altered state of consciousness.
I don"t have any answers; just an attempted explanation from one perspective.
 Lots of "ifs" , lots of mysteries. Ain't life fun?

Avatar pic by my oldest daughter (ink and watercolor)

Online Ben Framed

  • Global Moderator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 12605
  • Mississippi Zone 7
Re: Below ground Locating
« Reply #24 on: May 02, 2023, 03:51:32 am »
Through Science, Tesla was well aware of the earths magnetic field. Does this recognized science fit in this topic? I do not know...
Quote
Lots of "ifs" , lots of mysteries. Ain't life fun?

On that;  Agreed!  :grin:






« Last Edit: May 02, 2023, 10:15:29 am by Ben Framed »
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline Michael Bush

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 19905
  • Gender: Male
    • bushfarms.com
Re: Below ground Locating
« Reply #25 on: May 02, 2023, 06:58:29 am »
The I Ching, the Urim and the Thurim, David's linen ephod etc. are all based on the idea that God (the Tao etc.) can communicate if we ask them to and that they don't have to answer if they don't want to.  So when King Saul is asking if he should attack or not he keeps getting no answer.  I've always been uncomfortable with asking for answers that weren't offered.
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--James "Big Boy" Medlin

Offline Occam

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 311
  • Gender: Male
Re: Below ground Locating
« Reply #26 on: June 12, 2023, 07:02:51 pm »

I am suggesting that the dowser may be underestimating his own abilities and knowledge, attributing them to an outside force, and constructing a false image of something greater than himself.

 Lots of "ifs" , lots of mysteries. Ain't life fun?

I think possibly dowsers (I wouldn't necessarily consider myself one though I've been more successful than not locating pipes) are able to disconnect their conscious logic and tap into their innate instincts to be able to observe without looking.  Belief that it works is part of it while conversely disbelief will close that door. The ability to let go of the control vs clinging only to what makes sense. Could it be scientifically explainable one day? Perhaps. Is it a non physical force at work? Could be. Sometimes the greatest "outside force" is ourselves getting out of our own way. Either way belief or disbelief have an effect, the mysteries are fun and numerous
Entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity

 

anything