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Author Topic: Warm Dec. days  (Read 3528 times)

Offline MikeyN.C.

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Warm Dec. days
« on: December 19, 2018, 07:44:21 pm »
Was wondering if temps at mid 50's day time.  Will winter bees live ?

Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Warm Dec. days
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2018, 07:49:31 am »
Was wondering if temps at mid 50's day time.  Will winter bees live ?

Mickey,
I deal with this type of weather every year. The answer is yes if it is a strong hive.
Jim
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

Offline MikeyN.C.

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Re: Warm Dec. days
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2018, 10:09:34 am »
Thanks jim,
Bees have been flying like crazy for about 3 days bringing in pollen.  Was wondering if it shortens life span.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Warm Dec. days
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2018, 12:29:11 pm »
Thanks jim,
Bees have been flying like crazy for about 3 days bringing in pollen.  Was wondering if it shortens life span.

MickeyN.C.  The weather was warm here in  North Mississippi the last couple days but has dropped enough that the bees are staying put so far today. My bees were flying like crazy also the last three days. I am wondering the same question as you.  This is my first year beekeeping, yours also? There is so much to learn. In another topic, Michale warned of the following in his area, of course this was intended for early drone buildup but I am thinking the words should apply here?  And I quote "Rearing brood too early, in my climate, often results in bees being stuck on brood in a cold snap and starving as a result of not leaving the brood.'  I don't know if the few warn days will promote early laying by the queen to put us in this type danger.  Beepro is in another area, and says he already has capped brood! Of course he is in California, though i'm not sure of the latitude and longitude where he is located. But back to our situation, In our general area, this may be a different issue. Live Oak is form about the same general area as we are. Though he and yourself are east and a little north of me. Actually you may be a little further north than he.  Maybe he will chime in with his experience? Maybe some of the other folks that are seasoned keepers  form our similar longitude and latitude will chime in and tell of there experiences. No doubt that different beekeepers do things different, and have ways and ideas of what is right, but, no doubt, what they do works for their operation, Different view points and ideas are always welcome and interesting, right?
 
Thanks, Phillip Hall
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Warm Dec. days
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2018, 01:57:12 pm »
Thanks jim,
Bees have been flying like crazy for about 3 days bringing in pollen.  Was wondering if it shortens life span.

MickeyN.C.  The weather was warm here in  North Mississippi the last couple days but has dropped enough that the bees are staying put so far today. My bees were flying like crazy also the last three days. I am wondering the same question as you.  This is my first year beekeeping, yours also? There is so much to learn. In another topic, Michale warned of the following in his area, of course this was intended for early drone buildup but I am thinking the words should apply here?  And I quote "Rearing brood too early, in my climate, often results in bees being stuck on brood in a cold snap and starving as a result of not leaving the brood.'  I don't know if the few warn days will promote early laying by the queen to put us in this type danger.  Beepro is in another area, and says he already has capped brood! Of course he is in California, though i'm not sure of the latitude and longitude where he is located. But back to our situation, In our general area, this may be a different issue. Live Oak is form about the same general area as we are. Though he and yourself are east and a little north of me. Actually you may be a little further north than he.  Maybe he will chime in with his experience? Maybe some of the other folks that are seasoned keepers  form our similar longitude and latitude will chime in and tell of there experiences. No doubt that different beekeepers do things different, and have ways and ideas of what is right, but, no doubt, what they do works for their operation, Different view points and ideas are always welcome and interesting, right?
 
Thanks, Phillip Hall

Phillip,
Warm weather by itself does not cause the queen to start laying. Incoming nectar and increased day light hours do.
Jim
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

Offline iddee

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Re: Warm Dec. days
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2018, 02:04:53 pm »
And tomorrow will be the beginning of the longer days. It also means new mouths to feed, so stores need to bewatched closely until the nectar flow begins.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Warm Dec. days
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2018, 02:09:42 pm »
 I am seeing tinges of pink on our maple trees. Nectar should bee flowing soon.
Jim
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Warm Dec. days
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2018, 02:16:42 pm »
Thanks Fellows! Looking forward to the new mouths to feed! :grin::, thank y'all for the heads up!! Wishing y'all a Merry Christmas!!
Phillip
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline Dabbler

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Re: Warm Dec. days
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2018, 02:35:56 pm »

[/quote]

Phillip,
Warm weather by itself does not cause the queen to start laying. Incoming nectar and increased day light hours do.
Jim
[/quote]

@Jim  For my continuing education . . . . I can understand how the temperature, nectar and increased daylight would be important factors for the Queen to start laying. However since the Queen is snuggled comfortably warm in the center of the cluster and not able to see sunlight, do we know the mechanism for the how longer days are "communicated " to the Queen?
 Does she get an 'elbow' from the workers to get back to laying?
Is there a worker pheromone  change created by the increased activity?

Spence
Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the tests first, the lessons afterwards .
-Vernon Sanders Law

Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Warm Dec. days
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2018, 02:51:50 pm »
Spence,
The queen does not decide what happens in the hive. The bees do. The queen does not decide what cells to lay eggs in. The bees prep a cell and leave a signal that tells the queen to lay an egg in a given cell. The queen then measures the cell to determine whether to lay a fertilized egg or an un fertilized egg. If no cells are prepped, she does not start laying eggs. The bees also control her diet as in swarm preparation.
Jim
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

Offline MikeyN.C.

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Re: Warm Dec. days
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2018, 03:02:27 pm »
Tomorrow is the Winter Solstice ( shortest day)  more daylight hrs. after that.
https://mudsongs.org/winter-solstice-and-the-death-of-honeys-bees/
Ben, going into 5th yr. This yr. is first for me to have mid. 50's in Dec. and expecting high 50's to mid 60's next week.  So if Q's start laying slow after W. Solstice and you go by the 3-6-12 rule (egg, capped,emerged)  mid.
Jan. for new eggs laid.
I'm wondering if forage bees use up to much energy on these days and not live as long and there for , minimize cluster population?

Offline iddee

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Re: Warm Dec. days
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2018, 03:11:38 pm »
Bathroom flights don't take much time. Scouts who do not find food do not send out foragers. Very little flight time lost in this weather.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline MikeyN.C.

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Re: Warm Dec. days
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2018, 03:55:13 pm »
Thanks iddee,
Just seen alot bringing in dark orange an off white pollen?

Offline Dabbler

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Re: Warm Dec. days
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2018, 05:24:11 pm »
Spence,
The queen does not decide what happens in the hive. The bees do. The queen does not decide what cells to lay eggs in. The bees prep a cell and leave a signal that tells the queen to lay an egg in a given cell. The queen then measures the cell to determine whether to lay a fertilized egg or an un fertilized egg. If no cells are prepped, she does not start laying eggs. The bees also control her diet as in swarm preparation.
Jim

Thanks
Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the tests first, the lessons afterwards .
-Vernon Sanders Law

Offline MikeyN.C.

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Re: Warm Dec. days
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2018, 06:35:03 pm »
But bee's have to have enough pollen to make bee bread rite ?

Offline iddee

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Re: Warm Dec. days
« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2018, 06:37:20 pm »
Bees gather what is out there. Yes, bee bread is a mixture of honey and pollen, and "maybe" even a bit of royal jelly.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline herbhome

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Re: Warm Dec. days
« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2018, 07:57:58 pm »
Thanks for bringing this topic up, Mikey, good info here. :smile:
Neill

Offline beepro

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Re: Warm Dec. days
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2018, 02:49:10 am »
Winter bees will continue to have small patches of broods in order to
continue with the hive survival.  The weather outside will not affect them that much when they
are strong.  The bees will use what stored reserves they have to raise 2 round of broods then they will
starve if they ran out of food or reserves.   Of course, being a warm climate will help since they don't have to
use too much stored reserves to maintain the hive temp. as winter bees will tend to eat more.  Honey being the
main source to maintain the hive during the winter.

Offline Live Oak

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Re: Warm Dec. days
« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2018, 04:08:52 am »
Thanks jim,
Bees have been flying like crazy for about 3 days bringing in pollen.  Was wondering if it shortens life span.

MickeyN.C.  The weather was warm here in  North Mississippi the last couple days but has dropped enough that the bees are staying put so far today. My bees were flying like crazy also the last three days. I am wondering the same question as you.  This is my first year beekeeping, yours also? There is so much to learn. In another topic, Michale warned of the following in his area, of course this was intended for early drone buildup but I am thinking the words should apply here?  And I quote "Rearing brood too early, in my climate, often results in bees being stuck on brood in a cold snap and starving as a result of not leaving the brood.'  I don't know if the few warn days will promote early laying by the queen to put us in this type danger.  Beepro is in another area, and says he already has capped brood! Of course he is in California, though i'm not sure of the latitude and longitude where he is located. But back to our situation, In our general area, this may be a different issue. Live Oak is form about the same general area as we are. Though he and yourself are east and a little north of me. Actually you may be a little further north than he.  Maybe he will chime in with his experience? Maybe some of the other folks that are seasoned keepers  form our similar longitude and latitude will chime in and tell of there experiences. No doubt that different beekeepers do things different, and have ways and ideas of what is right, but, no doubt, what they do works for their operation, Different view points and ideas are always welcome and interesting, right?
 
Thanks, Phillip Hall

Very sorry for the late reply Phillip,

I have been real busy in the apiary insulating hives, feeding 85 gallons of sugar syrup, and just today finished insulating the inner covers of my nucleus colonies. 

In our latitude, the temperatures cycle between cold and warm enough for the bees to fly and forage.  Because of this, the cluster uses a lot more of the hive resources than a hive in a very cold climate that stays inside the hive all winter in cluster.  Because of this, you have to keep a close eye on the sugar syrup/honey stores inside the hive and supplementally feed as needed.  I use the Mann Lake big blue plastic Pro Feeders and feed my colonies Ultra Bee.  I put out about 14 of those feeders and put about 5 lbs. of Ultra Bee in each feeder for the bees to consume.  That way it stays fresh.

On warm days my bees come out ravenous and raid the Ultra Bee feeders like honey bee tornado's.  I learned to put out the Ultra Bee for the bees over time as I observed that if I did not make some type of pollen substitute available, the bees would get into everything look for pollen including saw dust, wood chips, chicken feed, etc.  They are very hungry after several days inside the hive after a cold spell and they are going to find something to eat so I figured it best to feed them something as close as possible to natural pollen.  I buy the Ultra Bee in the 1,500 lb. totes so that brings the price down a good bit.  Good nutrition, IPM, and winterizing the hives is very important and will go a long ways to minimizing hive losses. 

Because of the constant breaking and reforming cluster, I feel my bees need as much insulation on the hive as I possibly can install to mitigate temperature stress and the queens will lay small amounts of brood in the larger hives and the insulation helps to keep the temperature inside the hive more stable minimizing large temperature swings. 

I make the Ultra Bee available to the bees year round.  The sugar syrup/sugar patty mix I make available all Winter and during droughts.  When Spring arrives and natural pollen and nectar is available, the bees will ingore the Ultra Bee and to a good degree the sugar syrup but I remove the syrup when nectar is available so as not to adulterate the honey and natural nectar is best for them. 

I will be leaving the hive insulation on until May this season.  Got caught with my pants down last season after several days in the 80's and I figured it was late April and no more chance of a hard freeze and removed the insulation.  Mother Natural showed me she can do it.  Lost 12 of my biggest and most productive hives that heavily brooded up due to the hard freeze.  I keep R-19 insulation above the inner cover and at least a Bee Cozy on the 8 and 10 frame hives.  I am experimenting with some Easy-On Beehive covers but I think they need more insulation.  On my nucs, I currently have R-19 or better on top of the inner cover and may push them all together and wrap them in Reflectix bubble insulation in several layers.  Hive ventilation is VERY important as well.  I place an Immerie Shim with an upper entrance notch under the inner cover for ventilation and an upper entrance.  Right now I have them removed from the nucs due to robbing but plan to reinstall them later. 
« Last Edit: December 22, 2018, 01:56:18 pm by Live Oak »

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Warm Dec. days
« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2018, 08:17:36 am »
Thanks Live Oak for the detailed explanation. Just what I was looking for!!
Phillip Hall
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.