hive beetle control opinions, please

[animal]

Everything looks good in the hive as far as I can tell and no odd smells, slimy stuff, or larvae..
The bee population has been growing steadily and they seem to be building comb well.
Transferred 5 full frames from a nuc a couple of days ago into a 10 frame box. The bees didn't want to come off of the nuc lid or out of the box, so I set the nuc on top of the 10 frame box upside down with its cover next to it.
Today, I took those off to put the correct covers on..
There was a small cluster of bees on top of the frames in the corner. A beetle hauled butt out of the cluster onto the outside of the hive and I squished it before I could get a good look.
Stuck in the bottom of the nuc was a dead one. Looked it up and confirmed it to be SHB. These look completely black to me , though.

Anyway, I was thinking of ordering some of those oil traps to go on top between the frames .. and trying swiffer sheets in the corners since I can get them now.
would rather not use poison unless I have to ..

What do you guys think?

edit: sorry, should have put this in pest control ..

[animal]

Oh .. When I put them in the bigger box, I put the frames in the same order but spaced them with the new empty frames. (foundation-less ... frames have 45 degree edge cut on top and bottom .. some started off with comb wired into them)
Is that correct?

[Ben Framed]

The thing about SHB; they can invade and take over quickly.. From having just a few and boom! I have been observing hives in the late evening just before dark and could not believe the numbers coming into a particular hive. 'Thankfully' Paus and 'Beemaster2' introduced me to hive bottom 'oil trays'. This pretty much takes care of them has been my experience, and without poisons .. I had lost hives to them before I tried this..

Phillip

[The15thMember]

Transferred 5 full frames from a nuc a couple of days ago into a 10 frame box. The bees didn't want to come off of the nuc lid or out of the box, so I set the nuc on top of the 10 frame box upside down with its cover next to it.

Pro tip: Bees can be shaken off equipment if you just give it a stiff shake.  Once you dislodge their little hooks off the wall, they are entirely pourable.  You could also use a bee brush if you have one, although I find they get more aggravated being brushed than just shaken. 

Anyway, I was thinking of ordering some of those oil traps to go on top between the frames .. and trying swiffer sheets in the corners since I can get them now.
would rather not use poison unless I have to ..

Poison is definitely not necessary, and it would be difficult to find something that you could feel good wouldn't hurt the bees too, since both beetles and bees are insects.  I use Swiffer sheets with good results personally, but I don't have anywhere near the beetle trouble those south or down (in elevation) of me do.  The oil tray is quite popular with folks who live in real beetle country. 

[Ben Framed]

Pro tip: Bees can be shaken off equipment if you just give it a stiff shake.  Once you dislodge their little hooks off the wall, they are entirely pourable.  You could also use a bee brush if you have one, although I find they get more aggravated being brushed than just shaken.

Good tip Reagan, another option is you can simply give the top, held in the right position, a bang against the top box and they go in instantly. I learned this from Tim Durham. 'The Walls Bee Man'..

Phillip

[animal]

Thanks, I have been planning to do a screened oil tray, but haven't had time to build one... plus have a little confusion about screen size etc...
Most of the articles I saw gave a range of aperture size ... and haven't had time to find out what is available now as far as number sizes and wire gauges.
Also, many articles seem to say "aperture" when they mean "on-center measurement" and a couple of them definitely did.

this beetle looks like it might fall through #8 and might not ... #8 has wires spaced 1/8" on centers, so it has an aperture of (0.125" - wire diameter) .. Beetle will definitely fall through the aluminum expanded mesh used for gutter guards, and it looks small enough to keep out bees, but there are sharp edges. I could tumble the stuff in sand, but that would be a lot of trouble.

looking on Amazon, they usually state fractional, number, or millimeter size. The wire diameter is almost never stated. When it comes to the metric stuff, I assume that is on-center measurement, but really don't know.

Haven't put the calipers on the dead beetle yet.... As soon as I typed that, I realized you guys are gonna be laughing at me... oh well..

So what do you buy for mesh that works ? ... or do you all buy ready-made bottoms ?


 When I was young, you could get the stuff in different wire gauges, and spacing at a local hardware store ... long gone now.
You could even get it in spacings like 1/8" x 1/4".... went to the co-op looking for that or #6 last week thinking it would work well ...
and the buggers laughed at me and said there's no such thing... Luckily I had a scrap about 1' wide of 1/8"x 1/4", so I went back down there to show them. All they have locally is too big.

Assuming it needs to be metal because bees may chew on it ?

was also thinking of making a thing out of sheet metal like a miniature version of a termite shield for the bottom of the brood box.. That the bees could step over but mites and beetles couldn't. ..Silly idea ?

The inner lid has a beetle trap and adjustable vent integrated into it... uses the scent of the hive as bait, just an experiment.

[animal]

No don't have a brush yet... thought I still had a drafting brush, but moths or something got to it. ... So far, I haven't actually bought anything specifically "bee"...

I've been really gentle with them, partly because of things that you guys wouldn't approve of .. like moving them from nuc to hive with shorts, t-shirt, and a rubber band around my beard the only protection. They will get tangled in the beard otherwise, then they get mad and it's hard to get them loose without making them madder. ... Been just listening and watching to try to learn their ways, buzzes, and reactions ... and getting them used to me. The nuc has been sitting on a bench on the front porch, and often, it's been my armrest.
So far, no stings at all since the cut-out. These guys seem really polite.

[Occam]

The #8 (1/8th inch) hardware cloth works really well for letting beetles and their larva through. The issue comes from when the beele larva hatch, they have to go down to the soil and they drop through the hardware cloth easily. My regular hive has never had an issue with shb though I've seen a few in there and kill them when I can. A strong hive can often manage them. Hundreds of larvae moving is a big problem

[animal]

Sorry, don't understand .. don't see the problem, then ... with a 1/8" screen for bees to walk on over a tray of mineral oil.

ideal would be largest size for bees to not go through, right ?

[The15thMember]

Haven't put the calipers on the dead beetle yet.... As soon as I typed that, I realized you guys are gonna be laughing at me... oh well..

I've been really gentle with them, partly because of things that you guys wouldn't approve of .. like moving them from nuc to hive with shorts, t-shirt, and a rubber band around my beard the only protection. They will get tangled in the beard otherwise, then they get mad and it's hard to get them loose without making them madder. ... Been just listening and watching to try to learn their ways, buzzes, and reactions ... and getting them used to me. The nuc has been sitting on a bench on the front porch, and often, it's been my armrest.
So far, no stings at all since the cut-out. These guys seem really polite.

I think all this sounds really great actually, and we have several people who work hives in shorts and a shirt.  Bees do hate getting tangled in hair; as someone with very long hair, I've learned that lesson the hard way.  It's also cool that you have a beard that is long enough to have to tie up! 

So what do you buy for mesh that works ?

The #8 (1/8th inch) hardware cloth works really well for letting beetles and their larva through. The issue comes from when the beele larva hatch, they have to go down to the soil and they drop through the hardware cloth easily. My regular hive has never had an issue with shb though I've seen a few in there and kill them when I can. A strong hive can often manage them. Hundreds of larvae moving is a big problem

Sorry, don't understand .. don't see the problem, then ... with a 1/8" screen for bees to walk on over a tray of mineral oil.

ideal would be smallest size for bees to not go through, right ?

#8 hardware cloth is bee fence, workers cannot pass through it.  I use it for covering ventilation holes in my moisture quilts, and yes, it can be extremely difficult to find locally.  The next town over happens to have an old Ace hardware that carries it, or I'd be having to special order it. 

Assuming it needs to be metal because bees may chew on it ?

 
Bee will chew on wood, but I've never see them chew through wood, if that makes sense. 

was also thinking of making a thing out of sheet metal like a miniature version of a termite shield for the bottom of the brood box.. That the bees could step over but mites and beetles couldn't. ..Silly idea ?

I think that sounds like a silly idea.  The mites are coming in on the bees, so it wouldn't help with that.  And I'm pretty sure the beetles have little sticky pads on their feet like the bees, so I think they could both crawl over something shiny. 

[animal]

oops ..., meant to say largest size that bees can't pass through .. so .. is there a larger size that worker bees can't get through?

Wasn't thinking of wood at all .. found plastic mesh in a variety of sizes and would be slipperier ... but am scared of it.

  laugh some more ... It measures  0.125" wide by 0.172 long  ... so it wouldn't go through 1/8" .... maybe not SHB then ?
It sure looks like the pictures that came up on google.. and when I got it under bright light, it did have a slight reddish brown tint.

beard... I whacked it off last year so it's only to mid chest, but the brillo pad nature of it makes it grab whatever comes close

Angles of legs relative to the body and length .. to navigate a shield pointing downward 45 degrees ... I guess I'll have to pull out the microscope and look at bug feet. 

Thanks much for the help !

[Ben Framed]

animal
When I was young, you could get the stuff in different wire gauges, and spacing at a local hardware store ...

The only #8 that I could find locally was from a old time hardware store, the stuff was new old stock. Probably had been sitting on the old top shelf for many years. I felt fortunate to get it.

If you are close to Philadelphia Ms, you might try the famous old time hardware store located there. I have not visited there but I hear they have everything! Sorry but I don?t know the mane of it.

Phillip

[animal]

Thanks, that might be Williams Brothers general store ... or I can order 1/8" square hole locally or  Amazon .. If that's the size  need.


1/8" x 1/4" was from Renfroe Hardware years ago in Meridian ... They had everything you could think of plus some .. copper nails, solid brass whatever, cast iron stuff, canning everything, ....no problem .. i miss that store.

Bought a bottle capper there when I was in high school. Made mixed drinks in the old thick "deposit" CocaCola bottles.. even stocked a machine in the student center at college with 'em a couple of times (for special occasions) and put an "out of order" sign on the appropriate gates ... never got caught

[The15thMember]

laugh some more ... It measures  0.125" wide by 0.172 long  ... so it wouldn't go through 1/8" .... maybe not SHB then ?
It sure looks like the pictures that came up on google.. and when I got it under bright light, it did have a slight reddish brown tint.


Angles of legs relative to the body and length .. to navigate a shield pointing downward 45 degrees ... I guess I'll have to pull out the microscope and look at bug feet. 

The hive beetles to me also look black unless they are in bright light.  The thing to look at if you aren't sure is the antennae; SHB have antennae shaped like golf clubs.  I don't have experience with oil trays, so someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think, as Aaron said, you are really trying to catch the larvae when they leave the hive to pupate in the ground.  I have seen hive beetles squeeze through #8 hardware cloth though.  The thing is, weirdly, hive beetles seem to be attracted to the scent of the dead bodies of their own kind, so dead beetles in the oil pan actually act as bait for more beetles.  I've seen it happen with my hanging oil traps.  The more full of beetles they are, the more full of beetles they get.     

[Ben Framed]

The oil trays are in place to rid the hive of beatles 'before' they have time to reproduce larva..  The bees can handle them up to a point detouring laying. Once the larvae, 'worms' are incorporated into the combs of honey etc, it may be too late unless the beekeeper is lucky enough to remove the frames involved in time, (which I was not when I lost to SHB).. (Before oil trays) and I was inspecting weekly as a new, enthusiastic beekeeper..

My oil trays are the size of the diminater of my hives, I have had oil trays so loaded with SHB that there were too many to count, but the hives were saved.. Yes the SHB go through the number 8 never to return; to their death! And good for them!! !!

As Jim (Beemaster2) and Paus has repeated here through the years, once the SHB population is under control, future numbers euthanized in the oil trays amazingly subside considerably. 

Phillip

[Ben Framed]

animal
Thanks, that might be Williams Brothers general store ...

That rings a bell! Yes that might be it..

Phillip

[The15thMember]

The oil trays are in place to rid the hive of beatles 'before' they have time to reproduce larva..  The bees can handle them up to a point detouring laying. Once the larvae, 'worms' are incorporated into the combs of honey etc, it may be too late unless the beekeeper is lucky enough to remove the frames involved in time, (which I was not when I lost to SHB).. (Before oil trays) and I was inspecting weekly as a new, enthusiastic beekeeper..

My oil trays are the size of the diminater of my hives, I have had oil trays so loaded with SHB that there were too many to count, but the hives were saved.. Yes the SHB go through the number 8 never to return; to their death! And good for them!! !!

As Jim (Beemaster2) and Paus has repeated here through the years, once the SHB population is under control, future numbers euthanized in the oil trays amazingly subside considerably. 

Phillip

Okay, so you are catching adult beetles.  That makes sense. 

laugh some more ... It measures  0.125" wide by 0.172 long  ... so it wouldn't go through 1/8" .... maybe not SHB then ?
It sure looks like the pictures that came up on google.. and when I got it under bright light, it did have a slight reddish brown tint.

Isn't .125 exactly 1/8?  Keep in mind that insects do have a decent amount of flexibility between the plates of their exoskeleton, so I'd imagine a live beetle could squeeze through a hole that size with minimal trouble.

[Ben Framed]

Or go through it catty cornered.

Phillip

[animal]

Isn't .125 exactly 1/8?  Keep in mind that insects do have a decent amount of flexibility between the plates of their exoskeleton, so I'd imagine a live beetle could squeeze through a hole that size with minimal trouble.

Yes, probably ... but he would have to turn sideways to get through. The opening of 1/8" cloth is .125 minus the diameter of the wire since it is measured by center to center of each wire.
Was hoping to have the largest hole possible that bees can't get through ... so the beetles don't have to try to fall through.

[animal]

I'm not sure if fat boy here is SHB or a look-alike  ... not a bug guy ... It has the clubbed antenna, oval shape, a crescent-ish shaped head, wing covers stop just short of the butt, ... and way faster than I expected for a beetle .. haven't read anything about speed of SHB .... but this thing was fast!

 ..if they're attracted to putrefying dead ... maybe better to fry'em ? .. bug zapper style

kidding . .. mostly

[Ben Framed]

animal if you was trying to post a picture, it did not come through..

Phillip

[BeeMaster2]

Animal,
Sounds like a SHB. They have little paddles on their antennas that they use to trick the bees into feeding them when they are in the hive.
Jim Altmiller

[The15thMember]

I'm not sure if fat boy here is SHB or a look-alike  ... not a bug guy ... It has the clubbed antenna, oval shape, a crescent-ish shaped head, wing covers stop just short of the butt, ... and way faster than I expected for a beetle .. haven't read anything about speed of SHB .... but this thing was fast!

Oh they are totally fast, they run around like crazy people.  Like Jim said, in the dark of the hive, the beetles try to act like bees to keep a low profile.  But when you crack the lid, and the light reveals their true identity, they panic and run, and bees often chase after them.  It'd be funny if the little jokers weren't such a hassle. 

[animal]

Ben .. was going to put up a picture, but couldn't get a good shot on something that small and that dead.. The microscope is an old kid's project and has analog video feed through an RCA jack and never bothered to convert to digital because they grew up.. frame capture to digital would be a pita with what I have.

I read the thread "SHB" in this section and saw the great photo Michael Bush posted of one of the similar but harmless species. This thing doesn't look the same to me at all...
What I called the head in an earlier post is actually the thorax. The head doesn't stick out like on Bush's photo. It is tucked in to the point it looks more like a face on the thorax. The joint between abdomen and thorax looks almost nonexistent. The body shape is almost a perfectly smooth oval dome. The antennae have a curve immediately after the club end rather than being straight like in his photo. And the legs look fatter.
Interwebs says the adult SHB can be 5-7mm ... MS State University says 3-6mm ... which would be around 1/4" long for a big one, so I'm back to thinking this one is SHB.

dropped him in a medicine bottle with formaldehyde in case I wanto to look again, but for now, go about ways to kill them.

[The15thMember]

Ben .. was going to put up a picture, but couldn't get a good shot on something that small and that dead.. The microscope is an old kid's project and has analog video feed through an RCA jack and never bothered to convert to digital because they grew up.. frame capture to digital would be a pita with what I have.

I read the thread "SHB" in this section and saw the great photo Michael Bush posted of one of the similar but harmless species. This thing doesn't look the same to me at all...
What I called the head in an earlier post is actually the thorax. The head doesn't stick out like on Bush's photo. It is tucked in to the point it looks more like a face on the thorax. The joint between abdomen and thorax looks almost nonexistent. The body shape is almost a perfectly smooth oval dome. The antennae have a curve immediately after the club end rather than being straight like in his photo. And the legs look fatter.
Interwebs says the adult SHB can be 5-7mm ... MS State University says 3-6mm ... which would be around 1/4" long for a big one, so I'm back to thinking this one is SHB.

dropped him in a medicine bottle with formaldehyde in case I wanto to look again, but for now, go about ways to kill them.

Keep in mind that, like spiders curl up in a death position, the beetles kind of stiffen up into their maximum armored position when they die.  Here is a picture of a hive beetle alive vs. dead or perhaps moving vs. in defense mode. 

[animal]

yes .. to me, those pictures look exactly like what I've got except for a little darker .. teasing the head out with a needle .. it didn't quite come out as far as in the live picture, but that makes sense. Didn't try to pry apart abdomen and thorax ... At least the thing seemed freshly dead and not crumbly yet.

Maybe the 1/8" screen works because the bees chase them through it, rather than them falling through ..?

[animal]

ran across something about 30 minutes ago at a company called Mann Lake ...

this is kind of funny, or silly as the case may be...

Earlier today, I went ahead and made a mini termite shield type thing ... figured it might not work but it's easy and basically free ... took about 20 minutes to cut the metal out of a piece of aluminum drip edge scrap using a utility knife and straight edge ... bent it with the heel of my hand using the edge of a board for a form .. . cut a wood spacer frame out of a piece of scrap 1/2" x 3/4" s4s molding .. screwed it together and produced what is nearly identical to this ...

https://www.mannlakeltd.com/beetle-baffle/?sku=DC870&gclid=Cj0KCQjwho-lBhC_ARIsAMpgModlqX7VEQh4wDOHytjn3SYM-m6KphZjkoRqY7v8auVi90n-yKRXfEwaAkS0EALw_wcB

Their version is galvanized steel and is the steel piece only ! ... s4s spacer and bottom board not included ! 28 bucks !!!

maybe not so silly? Theirs would be a lot tougher, being galvanized ...  but still, some of this stuff is a racket !  imo

[Michael Bush]

I never see more than a few small hive beetles at a time.  Usually not more than one at a time.  Yet a weak hive under the wrong conditions (right conditions?) can quickly get slimed.  I've bee in healthy hives in Southern states on the eastern seaboard and seen thousand of small hive beetles.  The number of beetles seems unrelated to them getting slimed.  But the strength of the hive (read "density of bees") is what seems to matter.  If you see at least a few bees on every comb, they will probably be fine.  If you see a whole box with no bees in it, they are in danger.  I do use nemotodes every few years to try to keep the numbers down.  But the main thing is space management.

[cao]

One or two Shbs no problem, just smash them. 

10 or 20 in a hive, time to get serious about trapping and killing them.  Put beetle trays, swifter sheets, screen bottom board w/oil in it, nematodes or other ground drench treatment.  Do something because they won't go away and it doesn't take much of a setback in the hive for the shbs to get a foothold.  Once they do, every beetle around will flock to that hive. 

At 100-200 shbs in a hive, it is time to get serious.  Reduce hive, pull out extra frames of pollen.  Pack them down so there is wall to wall bees.  To me, much more than a couple hundred beetles(seen) means the hive is close to collaspe if nothing is done.  Remember if you see 200 the there are probably several times that amount unseen.

Any more than that and the hive starts to smell wrong.  Even before the sickly sweet smell of a slimed hive, I have noticed that the typical hive smell is not right and the normal upkeep or cleanlyness of the hive starts to faulter. 

[The15thMember]

ran across something about 30 minutes ago at a company called Mann Lake ...

this is kind of funny, or silly as the case may be...

Earlier today, I went ahead and made a mini termite shield type thing ... figured it might not work but it's easy and basically free ... took about 20 minutes to cut the metal out of a piece of aluminum drip edge scrap using a utility knife and straight edge ... bent it with the heel of my hand using the edge of a board for a form .. . cut a wood spacer frame out of a piece of scrap 1/2" x 3/4" s4s molding .. screwed it together and produced what is nearly identical to this ...

https://www.mannlakeltd.com/beetle-baffle/?sku=DC870&gclid=Cj0KCQjwho-lBhC_ARIsAMpgModlqX7VEQh4wDOHytjn3SYM-m6KphZjkoRqY7v8auVi90n-yKRXfEwaAkS0EALw_wcB

Their version is galvanized steel and is the steel piece only !

Oh, I wasn't understanding what you were describing before.  (I'm not familiar with termite shields.  ).  I have heard people who like these, although I've never used one personally.

... s4s spacer and bottom board not included ! 28 bucks !!!

maybe not so silly? Theirs would be a lot tougher, being galvanized ...  but still, some of this stuff is a racket !  imo

And that's without the catastrophically high shipping.  But what else would us poor souls who can't build spend money on? 

[animal]

Lifted the lid just now ..
2 in the inner lid trap .. left them in there to see if they can get out before they die.
none on the swiffer sheets, placed at opposite corners
1 had the audacity to land on the porch of the hive while I was standing there ... squished

the two corners without sheets had 4 or 5 bees really interested in the end of the frame. Sure enough, one corner had 2 beetles, the other had 5. Took a popsicle stick sized piece of wood, reached in the gap and squished them... a couple of bees grabbed a dead one off the stick and tore apart what was left of him, giving him the medieval death he deserved

Anyway, looks to me like I'm in a bad area for these things and the hive is healthy enough to hold them at bay for now.. Found some 1/8" cloth yesterday, so they'll have a bottom screen oil tray by this weekend, and I'll install the mini bug shield thing at the same time, just for giggles.
fingers crossed here, but not worried ...

Thanks very much for all the help and input !

[Bill Murray]

Yes your in a bad area for these things.

First off the bees will deal with them if you give them a tad bit help. Go buy a box of swiffer sheets. DRY, no fethers ETC. cut them into appox. 1.5 inch strips install them overthe ends of your frames top box. Bees will chew them, beetles get caught, change as necessary.

[cao]

Be diligent if you see several shbs in your hives.  Even strong hives go through times of weakness.  I took apart 2 hives that got overrun by beetles.  One was slimed pretty bad, the other didn't have as much resources in the hive to slime.  One was 4 medium boxes tall.  Just added the last box a few weeks ago because they were packed full of bees.  The other was 3 boxes tall and I think they may have swarmed and I don't know if they had a queen or not before the beetles took over.  All of my hives have pans under then with either oil or diatomaceous earth in them.

[Bill Murray]

First off I have hives that can deal with them and some that cant.

Usually the ones that cant are either because of a bee space issue,(they cant corral the beetles up top), or a bee compression issue, (not enough bees for the space  left them)
The other issue may be genetics.

[Ben Framed]

https://beemaster.com/forum/index.php?topic=56572.msg519062#msg519062

[Ben Framed]

First off I have hives that can deal with them and some that cant.

Usually the ones that cant are either because of a bee space issue,(they cant corral the beetles up top), or a bee compression issue, (not enough bees for the space  left them)
The other issue may be genetics.

As I stated earlier, The thing about SHB; they can invade and take over quickly.. From having just a few beetles one day and then boom, a sudden infesting invasion! I have observed hives in the late evening just before dark, here in my area and could not 'believe' the steady flow and numbers coming into a particular hive.
If the numbers coming in, are abundantly overwhelming numbers, it may not matter that bee space is tight, numbers invading can be so high, that to keep the SHB corralled may not be possible numbers wise, even genetics can not overcome an overwhelming invasion... 
'Thankfully' Paus and 'Beemaster2' introduced me to hive bottom 'oil trays'. I think the oil trays serve a two part win. The bees will naturally chase beetles, many times as you pointed out they will be corralled. If the number of an sudden invasion hit a hive the bees will corral them into the oil pans to their demise. Plus the oil pans naturally attract the Beatles is my understanding as well. This pretty much takes care of them has been my experience, and without poison ...

Phillip

[animal]

Here's what I ended up with for a bottom screen assembly ... forgot to take a picture of the first one. This one is for the hive-in-waiting (original one that was poisoned).

1/8" mesh full-bottom screen
Just under screen is a sheet metal deflector to funnel beetles into the kill pan, since the pan is smaller than the hive bottom. It's just a piece of galvanized drip edge with the nailing side trimmed to 3/8"
height of front opening is 3/4", a 1/2" tall lintel is above that with "termite shield thingie" all the way around ...making total wall height from screen 1 - 1/4".
The protrusion of the shield is 3/16" on the inside and 5/16 on the outside... except on the doorway : 3/16"  on both sides.
Front porch extends 2 - 1/4" from front wall for a landing pad and to accept an entrance reducer.
Bottom tray is lined with a disposable aluminum sheet-cake pan (standard size for a 1/2 sheet) so ... easy to replace

The notches on each side of the porch are so it will fit in the steel frame hive stand

So .. Is the 1 - 1/4" wall height ok ?
or do I need to make the screen floor angle up towards the back ?

or do you guys see other changes I should make ?

So far the bees don't seem to mind the other one (exactly like this), but it's only caught about a dozen or so. We've also had rain almost every day for the past 2 weeks. Have found only 2 beetles corralled up top in the corners since install. The dryer sheets haven't caught a single beetle, but I have seen some legs on them that looked more like beetle legs than bee legs. Was wondering if the bees are attacking ones that get stuck on the sheets. (the sheets are also store brand, not "swiffer" .. store was out of the name brand when I bought them.)

One thing that happened that was neat.. a beetle got away from me and fell onto the porch. Before I could smash it, a guard bee pounced, started wrestling it, rolled off onto the ground and continued fighting it until I lost sight of them in the grass.

[Ben Framed]

Your pictures look good animal from what I can see. I might be mistaken but I think Pause don't use complete floor covered oil pans either, and he has good results.

{If I am mistaken Pause, please correct me.}

Phillip

[cao]

I use a kind of hybrid screen/solid bottom.  I bought some of the 1/8 sheet pan size aluminum pans, cut holes in solid bottoms and mounted cleats under to hold the pan.  I have found that these smaller pans are just as effective as full screen bottoms.  With the great benefit of using much less oil and your hives don't need to be perfectly level as they do if you have a full pan under.

[animal]

I use a kind of hybrid screen/solid bottom.  I bought some of the 1/8 sheet pan size aluminum pans, cut holes in solid bottoms and mounted cleats under to hold the pan.  I have found that these smaller pans are just as effective as full screen bottoms.  With the great benefit of using much less oil and your hives don't need to be perfectly level as they do if you have a full pan under.

Thanks cao. Good to know it doesn't have to be a full bottom screen..
Did you recess the screen ? or Is the screen flush with the bottom ?

Thanks Ben, I'm hoping these things will do. Also made them where they can be taken apart fairly easily to tweak or try different things.

[cao]

I just staple the screen over the hole i put in the plywood bottom board.  No need to spend the time recessing it.