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Author Topic: Winter Heat Above or Below Hive  (Read 3083 times)

Offline SawBee

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Winter Heat Above or Below Hive
« on: October 31, 2015, 10:43:15 pm »
Have a couple of 10 frame single medium nucs that may need some external heat this winter.  Considering  using a 15 watt florescent bulb in a empty medium box.  It will only get turned on 10 degree F or lower days and nights.  Trying to decide if the empty box with the florescent bulb should go on top of the inner cover or below the bottom board.  The heat source on top of the inner cover might not be very helpful since heat rises.   I'm concerned that heat source underneath the bottom board could pull the bees down away from a food source.  So the question is where is the best place to put an auxiliary heat source -- above the inner cover or below the bottom board?  Thanks for your thoughts.

Offline Better.to.Bee.than.not

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Re: Winter Heat Above or Below Hive
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2015, 04:06:14 am »
I'd say below. if it only goes on when it is 10f or below, ad it is only 15 W, I do not think it is going to pull the bees from the food at all. and even if it does they won't stay away from it, nor will they starve. the heat would only go on during the extreme cold, and not much at all. it will be much warmer up above where they are at already by time it gets to 10 f or below. I personally do not use anything to heat my hives though. Bees have survived for like 53 million years without it after-all. I do not think it is the cold frankly that gets them at all. I do think moisture is a issue, and I think having the heat at the bottom would maybe help with air movement and less moisture too.

Offline little john

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Re: Winter Heat Above or Below Hive
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2015, 05:14:58 am »
Bags of insulation on top is what I would recommend - but - if you decide to go down the artificial heating route, then place any heating device 'below' the brood box - but not using that fluorescent lamp !

The reason people have used tungsten-filament lamps for heating in the past, is that they are inefficient, with much of their energy consumption being turned into heat. Fluorescent lamps on the other hand are efficient devices with nearly all of their energy consumption turned into light, and very little into heat - which, on this occasion, is exactly what you want.  I'd be very surprised if a 15W fluorescent lamp produces much more than 1 watt of heat. You should be able to hold the barely warm glassware of such a lamp quite comfortably in the hand - thus proving the point.

Far better, imo, is to source a purpose-made heater such as those used for heating terraniums. I have made my own from Aluclad resistors and aluminium sheets (which I've made and tested, but never used), and will advise how to do this if pressed - but for a turn-key solution, think 'terranium heater'.

LJ
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Offline capt44

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Re: Winter Heat Above or Below Hive
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2015, 12:46:11 pm »
Remember that when Bees Cluster they are heating the Cluster not the whole hive.
You need ventilation to wick out excess moisture.
If you keep them warm get ready to feed because the bees will eat more.
Richard Vardaman (capt44)

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Winter Heat Above or Below Hive
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2015, 02:57:28 pm »
Heat is usually not a good idea.  If you do heat, it needs to be VERY minimal.  Anything more than a terrarium heater is too much and even that is probably too much.  Bees are more active when it's warmer and activity shortens their lives and burns resources.
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Offline little john

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Re: Winter Heat Above or Below Hive
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2015, 05:42:22 am »
I agree very much with what has just been said. I made my heaters as a 'belt-and-braces' measure when over-wintering a pair of Long Hives (dummied-down) containing newly purchased and very expensive breeder queens which were still heading small (nuc-sized) colonies. But as luck would have it, that winter was fairly mild and the heaters were never needed.

What I had intended to do - and where I think heaters could well play a useful role - is in helping an otherwise tightly packed cluster relocate onto fresh stores. So - my plan was that, in the event of a long drawn-out severe winter (we do get one, every fifteen years or so) the hive would be heated up to around 8 deg C for a couple of hours every other night during the early hours of the morning, when the external temperature would be at it's lowest, in order to allow the bees to break cluster, re-locate onto fresh stores if needed, and then re-form a cluster again, without any temptation to venture outside.

I never did have the need to do this - but it's a strategy which might be worth considering for those who do experience extreme winters, as bees can very effectively provide their own heat and insulation, but only providing stores are readily accessible to them.

LJ
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Offline Colobee

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Re: Winter Heat Above or Below Hive
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2015, 11:03:04 pm »
"Heat is usually not a good idea.  If you do heat, it needs to be VERY minimal.  Anything more than a terrarium heater is too much and even that is probably too much.  Bees are more active when it's warmer and activity shortens their lives and burns resources.
 
x2...

They've been managing without supplemental heat for millennia. If that's what it takes to get them through the winter, you're selecting for a negative trait.
The bees usually fix my mistakes

Offline mikecva

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Re: Winter Heat Above or Below Hive
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2015, 12:36:09 pm »
I heat mine but not by a lamp.
I wrap my hives in black roofing paper because it will add a (very) little insulation but mostly because black absorbs heat thus helping the outside of the boxes to be warmer causing less radiant cooling inside the boxes. Sorry, no data to back my claims just very low winter losses. (Note I also feed brfore the cold sets in and fondant when it is very cold.  -Mike
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