BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER > GENERAL BEEKEEPING - MAIN POSTING FORUM.
Bees in the Oak trees
Bob Wilson:
Just to clarify,
I personally do not consider "sugar syrup honey" desirable. Neither "honeydew honey". This is the first time my thoughts have traveled down this line of thinking. It is an existential beekeeping moment for me. What actually is the nature, the definition, of honey?
The average Joe has no concept that this issue is, well, an issue.
Ben Framed:
Not in the trees but a comparison of Honeydew from trees to cotton. A little more on HONEYDEW from cotton. Not dark as the description of other honeydew such as Oak honeydew. In fact according to the following source it is light amber in color.
SOURCE: https://healthywithhoney.com/how-is-cotton-honey/
"The flavor of honey collected from the leaf (extra-floral) nectaries of the cotton-plant in no way differs from honey collected from flowers.
A hectare of cotton plants in bloom yields from 100 to 300 kilograms of honey. Cross-pollination by bees increases the cotton crop by 40 to 56 per cent.
Characteristics of cotton honey:
Color: light amber
Taste and flavor: pleasant, buttery, yet with a definite tang. Some people say the flavor makes you think more of a hard lemonade than a fluffy cloud!
The taste changes depending on the soil type and cotton variety, which influenced a lot the nectar yield"
The15thMember:
--- Quote from: Bob Wilson on July 06, 2022, 11:15:54 pm ---Just to clarify,
I personally do not consider "sugar syrup honey" desirable. Neither "honeydew honey". This is the first time my thoughts have traveled down this line of thinking. It is an existential beekeeping moment for me. What actually is the nature, the definition, of honey?
The average Joe has no concept that this issue is, well, an issue.
--- End quote ---
I realize that Bob, and it's a valid question, and one that is actually open to some interpretation, for all the reasons we've discussed. Honey is, by my definition at least, a substance made by bees in which a sugar-rich liquid gathered from plants is mixed with the bees' gut secretions and then reduced down to approx. 18% water content (say 25% or less, or something, as a cut off, many honey varieties vary in their moisture content). That's the definition I'd submit. Anything which doesn't meet all those criteria is at very least suspect to being called "honey".
--- Quote from: Ben Framed on July 06, 2022, 11:30:53 pm ---"The flavor of honey collected from the leaf (extra-floral) nectaries of the cotton-plant in no way differs from honey collected from flowers.
--- End quote ---
Wait! Hold the phone! There's a situation here. If you are telling me that the honey made from cotton is produce from a substance excreted by the plant from a NECTARY, then that is genuine honey, and not honeydew honey. Honeydew is a secretion, or excretion, of insects which are feeding on a plant, which is why it's questionable to call it honey. In laymen's terms, bug poop is not nectar. :wink: Nectar is nectar, no matter where it is on the plant. No one ever said the nectar had to come from a flower.
Ben Framed:
Reagan Im not exactly sure! lol This one has me dazzled! When you have the opportunity, check out the link. Maybe the girls will help... If so thanks Sisters.
Phillip
The15thMember:
Ok, I think the confusion here is stemming from the fact that no where on this thread have we actually defined "honeydew". Honeydew is the waste excretion of certain insects that feed on plant sap (think aphids, scale bugs, etc.) These insects have piercing mouthparts which they stab into a plant and then suck out its internal juices. Because these bugs eat only plant sap though, they need to eat copious amounts of it to get enough protein in their diet, way more than their tiny stomachs can hold, and they end up ingesting way more sugars than they need for their own carbohydrate intake, just to get the other nutrients they require. As a result their digestive tracts move really quickly, and a lot of the sugars survive out the back end. :wink: :cheesy: Their waste is therefore attractive to other insects who are searching for sugary liquids, like bees, and also ants, some of whom even farm aphids for their honeydew. This is why honeydew honey is only questionably honey, because the source for the honey is not a plant, it's an insect.
Now, cotton. Cotton flowers, which should have been obvious to me if I was thinking about it. There are obviously seeds in cotton bolls, hence the invention of the cotton gin, and where there are seeds, there are flowers (or cones, but obviously cotton plants don't make pine cones). Cotton is self-pollinating, so it doesn't require bees, but, as you mentioned Phillip, cotton will increase its yield when cross-pollinated by insects. So cotton does produce nectar, both in its short-lived flowers and in extra-floral nectaries outside of flowers, in this case on the leaves. Which means cotton honey is honey, because it's made from plant nectar.
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