Aw crap.

[Ben Framed]

I am thinking or theorizing more in the lines of absconding Initially because of Verona mite infestation. Leaving an open door for yellow jackets. Of course as I have said all along also, I have no way of knowing if mites are the main culprit.

Phillip

[Ben Framed]

Beesnweeds thank you for your good post and input. This hive might have very well went queenless.

Just a quick explanation for clarification;  Nyleve had posted just prior to my post:  "Please describe what I am looking for as mite frass. I have seen mites, of course. and really, this time, not that many. But what I saw on the bottom board is mostly bee legs"

I answered that question by posting HoneyPumps complete article, which covered her question, (and much more), of what to look for concerning mite frass because of the very clear pictures posted within that paper. I hope this helped Nyleve in that venture. I can not speak for TheHoneyPump but I think if his advice if followed (within context of the full program), His advice is solid. However, I will leave any clarification to HP speaking for himself. 😊

Phillip

[Acebird]

SUMMER: No checks, no treatments.  Let the bees bee bees.

Thats a big mistake for sure, routinely check mite numbers and treat as necessary.

Well that depends on if you are willing to live with the consequences to keep chemicals out of your hives.  Nyleve was suggesting 11 years experience.  If you can go 11 years without chemicals I would do it in a heartbeat.

[LawyerRick]

Regan's hive story is pretty accurate EXCEPT the part about not testing/treating during the summer.  When I first started beekeeping 10 years ago, you MIGHT be able to ignore summer mite numbers & get away with testing/treating in the fall.  Since that time, mite pressure has been increasing, both in number & lethality.  I start testing/treating as soon as I can get in the hive in April, then I test/treat every 4 weeks until late August, when I test/treat every 2 to 3 weeks until October to uncover mite bombs from other crashing colonies.  In SE Michigan, mites have become a 12 month menace.

[Nyleve]

Thank you for all that information. I will go back down to the hive this coming weekend to have a closer look at what remains. Weather has been atrocious recently so haven't had a chance. What I did notice when I last looked is that the honey super on the top - which had been harvested but left in place for feeding - has some bashed-up corners where it might have been possible for hornets to get in. Maybe too many holes in the hive for the colony to defend. I also had not reduced the entrance because I don't usually do that until the weather really starts to turn cold, which hadn't happened yet.

A friend has had similar happen to her hive and she blames it on the yellow jackets being active too long into the fall - after all the usual sources of food are finished. So they go hunting for honey. That is also possible as we did have a weirdly warm fall here in Ontario. As for the mites, I did see a very full and active hive two weeks after treatment. But I don't know that there was a queen - so it's also possible that the treatment killed the queen and then the colony collapsed and was overtaken by yellow jackets.

I don't suppose I'll ever know exactly what happened. But I will start over again in the spring. Guess I don't have to spend the winter worrying about whether my girls are ok or not.

[Acebird]

I also had not reduced the entrance because I don't usually do that until the weather really starts to turn cold, which hadn't happened yet.

Wrong timing.  You could change that.  Reduce the entrance when there is no longer anything to forage.  Temperature means nothing.  Robbing does not occur during very cold weather.

[Michael Bush]

It seems doubtful in Ontario that yellow jackets could wipe out a hive.  I've never seen it here in Nebraska.  Winter sets them back too far and there are just never enough to be a serious problem.  Other things are more likely.  The yellow jackets were probably just there at the time.  They could have gotten weak and robbed out.  They could have starved.  They could have died from Varroa mites.  I would do a post mortem.
http://bushfarms.com/beesfaqs.htm#Why%20did%20my%20bees%20die?

[Bill Murray]

Im going to add something here. as for the yellowjackets my thoughts had always been in line with Michaels
 

there are just never enough to be a serious problem.

But I saw something yesterday that will change that thinking. I drove out to feed bees yesterday morning and when I pulled up to the yard there were tons of bees flying, it was still chilly and I found that quite odd. There were more Yellowjackets than bees. I mean literally hundreds of them. There were 28 hives at the location, mostly double deeps, with good populations and a few fall splits. every hive I opened had Yellowjackets in them. Now heres what I saw. The larger hives were still mostly clustered. and the yellowjackets were all over the outer frames more or less just taking what they wanted. the bottom boards had dead bees in different processes of dissection. The cappings were stripped with honey removed, and where just 5 days ago had been larva was now empty. The interior feeders were chock full of them. The landing boards and in front of them were littered dead bees and yellowjackets. w I had to have killed a thousand Yellowjackets maybe more. I packed up 6 of the  fall splits that looked like they needed to be moved and packed the entrances of the other hives with leaves. I wish i had a camera it was a sight unlike anything I have seen. Almost amazing. But I will say now I understand when someone says their hive was decimated by yellowjackets.

As for a strong hive, It didnt look like the yellowjackets were having much of a problem coming and going at their leisure. I guess if youve never experienced something like that you just cant wrap your head around it.

[Acebird]

In FL I see hundreds of hives around me all with feeder on them.  So that tells me we are in a dearth  With 80 degree temps it is flying weather.  That is not the same condition that you would find up north.
People don't like yellow jackets so in the spring when they emerge they are more likely to get sprayed and trapped by humans up north.

[Michael Bush]

I think in places like Florida sometimes the yellow jackets don't die off in winter and they do become strong enough to be a serious problem.  I just haven't seen it this far north.

[Ben Framed]

One more idea, as beesnweeds stated they might have went queen less. Being Nyleve told us she had used formic pro before; Could it be the queen was killed at that time? That would do it if an emergency queen was not successfully developed and properly mated. Most of us have heard that the hive will sometimes kill the queen when using formic. Especially if a mistake is made in its use. 🤷‍♂️

Phillip