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Author Topic: laying worker or Immature queen  (Read 6778 times)

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: laying worker or Immature queen
« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2019, 02:19:26 pm »
Very interesting.....
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Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: laying worker or Immature queen
« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2019, 02:26:09 pm »
Apparently some think the laying work and the introduced queen were laying side by side, Maybe.

I don?t see where any person suggested the laying side by side.  Did I miss something?

Bill; BTW cool looking dog, has that happy ya want to play look.  Mans best friend.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2019, 06:51:23 pm by van from Arkansas »
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I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline billdean

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Re: laying worker or Immature queen
« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2019, 01:26:28 pm »
Quote from: iddee on May 15, 2019, 05:59:44 am
Laying workers don't get all eggs to the bottom of the cell. Many are deposited on the sides. Your pics have all of them in the bottom.
A new queen will lay as high as 4 eggs in a cell, but laying workers will lay 6, 8, even more per cell. Laying workers will never have as many single eggs standing up in the bottom of cells as your pics have.

Do as you said and watch for queen cells on the frame of eggs you supplied.You will not find any, but will find capped worker brood in a week

Thanks iddee for you knowledge ???..there is a queen in the hive and it is not a laying worker bee. The frame I had installed had capped brood and was filled out the rest of the way with eggs and larva. Both frames on either side of the one I put in had eggs a larva also. I stopped my inspection there and closed it back up.
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Offline iddee

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Re: laying worker or Immature queen
« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2019, 02:02:26 pm »
 :cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy:
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Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: laying worker or Immature queen
« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2019, 04:23:46 pm »
ID, you got me on this one.  Mark one up for ya.  How come you don?t rub it in, I was sure of a LW.  You are a real gentleman, ID.

Mr. Bill, thank you for the follow up post.

Blessings
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I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline iddee

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Re: laying worker or Immature queen
« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2019, 04:33:51 pm »
Van, I come here to help, not harm. After 43 years of observance, sometimes I see things others don't see. Hopefully, you and a few others can review the pics and see what I saw.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline Donovan J

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Re: laying worker or Immature queen
« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2019, 04:52:17 pm »
If your going to fix this laying worker problem, put the frames in a 5 frame nuc and put it on top of another 5 frame nuc. Put newspaper in between the two and introduce a queen to the bottom nuc. The bees will meet at the middle and chew through the paper and the laying worker pheromone should be over powered by the queens brood.
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Offline iddee

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Re: laying worker or Immature queen
« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2019, 05:58:12 pm »
Xerox, the only way to fix this LW problem is to marry her to a king bee so she will be a queen bee.   :wink: :cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy:

I think you need to go back and read the whole thread.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: laying worker or Immature queen
« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2019, 06:24:51 pm »
Quote from: iddee on May 21, 2019, 04:33:51 pm
Van, I come here to help, not harm. After 43 years of observance, sometimes I see things others don't see. Hopefully, you and a few others can review the pics and see what I saw.

Ok, ID, I reviewed the pic closely, very closely:  the size of the eggs, not the number of eggs per cell, rather the size of the eggs is what you saw also all eggs on bottom, none on the sides, not one.

Sharp eye, one for detail you have, ID.
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I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline iddee

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Re: laying worker or Immature queen
« Reply #29 on: May 21, 2019, 06:51:31 pm »
Also, number of cells with only one egg, and number of single eggs standing, not laying down, in the bottom center of cell.
A queen may lay more than one egg and a few may lay down, but a LW will NEVER put 50 eggs upright in single egg cells in a tight pattern.
The one "never" tells the story.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline Donovan J

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Re: laying worker or Immature queen
« Reply #30 on: May 21, 2019, 07:59:50 pm »
Quote from: iddee on May 21, 2019, 05:58:12 pm
Xerox, the only way to fix this LW problem is to marry her to a king bee so she will be a queen bee.   :wink: :cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy:

I think you need to go back and read the whole thread.

Sorry didnt see the second page  :cheesy: the workers will remove the extra eggs
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Offline iddee

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Re: laying worker or Immature queen
« Reply #31 on: May 21, 2019, 10:18:20 pm »
Now you got it.  :cheesy:
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline Fishing-Nut

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Re: laying worker or Immature queen
« Reply #32 on: May 23, 2019, 08:21:00 pm »
Neat thread. Good info here. Thanks to all.
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Offline billdean

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Re: laying worker or Immature queen
« Reply #33 on: May 25, 2019, 11:46:02 pm »
A new development with this hive! I was looking for a frame of brood for a split today and remember this hive had had some eggs a few days ago. I found a frame and when I was looking to see if the queen was on it I noticed the cells didn't look right. Pin holes in the capping and few cells had dead larva in them. So I took the frame in the house for closer inspection with a lighted magnifier and found up to 11 eggs in the upper row of cells by the top bar. Still multiple eggs and larva in the cells. The one dark frame, which is going on 4 years old, looked like maybe EFB. I will be sending it off to Beltsville to have it looked at.
I decide to look for the queen or queens. Didn't find one. The hive is 3 8 frame mediums. 6 to 7 frames of bees on each box. I went through each frame carefully. Nothing. So I decided to shake them all through an excluder into one box. No queens at all. I did find lots of eggs, larva, capped brood but no queen. I did find they where starting queen cells again! Enough! Tomorrow I will shake this hive out in the yard and let them find their way into other hives. The old hives and frames I will stack out of the way and protected until I hear from Beltsville. I will attached some pictures when I can figure out how to again
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Offline billdean

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Re: laying worker or Immature queen
« Reply #34 on: May 26, 2019, 12:13:21 am »
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Offline billdean

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Re: laying worker or Immature queen
« Reply #35 on: May 26, 2019, 12:45:32 am »
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Offline Oldbeavo

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Re: laying worker or Immature queen
« Reply #36 on: May 26, 2019, 06:50:33 am »
Not sure about EFB, but a couple look like early chalk brood. EFB would be discoloured coffee color. maybe doesn't show in the photo,
If there was not a queen some where, how do you get normal capped brood, should it not be domed drone brood from a laying worker?
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Online BeeMaster2

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Re: laying worker or Immature queen
« Reply #37 on: May 26, 2019, 07:14:58 am »
Billdean, has been the
If you suspect European Foul Brood, do a tooth pick test on one of the discolored larvae. Stick it in the larvae, spin it around and slowly pull it out. EFB will have a string that stretches across 2 cells. AFB stretches across 4 cells.
I agree with oldbeavo, I do not think you have a laying worker. I suspect your queen is failing and they are trying to replace her again. Bees do not make queen cells from laying worker eggs.
It is possible but very rare. I would not shake this hive out. A better choice would bee to buy a mated queen.
Jim Altmiller
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Offline iddee

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Re: laying worker or Immature queen
« Reply #38 on: May 26, 2019, 07:31:22 am »
Have you done a mite count?
Do you, or did you, have an excluder on this hive?
It could be both a queen and LW's if the excluder was used.
It could be excessive mites and the bees are hygienic.
That is 2 of several possibilities, so I'm not saying it's one of them. Just a couple things to check.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline billdean

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Re: laying worker or Immature queen
« Reply #39 on: May 26, 2019, 11:04:02 am »
Yes on the mite count. No mite. I have done several OAV treatments that starter before they brooded up.

I had an excluder on this hive early on but took it off weeks before.

There is no queen now but it is obvious that there was one. This is the 3rd queen that has been killed.

Not sure what hygienic is?

It could be chalk brood. I did not see any roping but I did see watery brood and a few dead brood in a couple of spots. It has no chalky appearance.

I have counted up to 11 eggs in one cell.



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