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BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => GENERAL BEEKEEPING - MAIN POSTING FORUM. => STICKIED POSTS => Topic started by: Understudy on August 25, 2008, 09:41:05 pm

Title: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: Understudy on August 25, 2008, 09:41:05 pm
http://howto.wired.com/wiki/Administer_an_Epinephrine_Shot (http://howto.wired.com/wiki/Administer_an_Epinephrine_Shot)

You may find this helpful if you need to deal with someone who is allergic to bee venom.

Sincerely,
Brendhan

Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: tlynn on August 25, 2008, 10:03:07 pm
When I was in college I studied with a professor who worked with social insects, mostly ants, some bees.  He had a couple of hives on the roof of the biology dept.  One of his grad students went up to help him one day and she got stung.  Her scalp started to tingle and she began to get short of breath quickly.  Immediately he grabbed her and they rushed downstairs.  Fortunately the hospital was 5 minutes away.  By the time he got her the car, she started to black out.  They got there in time and she recovered fine.  Back then there were no epi pens. 

Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: annette on August 25, 2008, 10:39:11 pm
I have 2 on hand, but I would still be very frightened to actually have to use this on anyone. I guess given the alternative, I would have to. Thanks for the info. Always good to read up again and again.

Annette
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: JP on August 25, 2008, 11:33:25 pm
Brendhan, you did the site an important service with this post, great job and kudos!


...JP
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: thomashton on August 26, 2008, 06:44:25 pm
Good info.

Anyone who's been in the military and gone through chemical warfare training should know this too. The difference is that we are trained to self administer and to give as many as three doses.
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: qa33010 on August 27, 2008, 01:14:33 am
Good info.

Anyone who's been in the military and gone through chemical warfare training should know this too. The difference is that we are trained to self administer and to give as many as three doses.


    It's nice to know that some knowledge is still good though.
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: Nelly on August 29, 2008, 10:00:12 am
Great info!  I was reading through the info that comes with an Epi Pen and they specifically state that you DO NOT STAB the needle into the muscle, it can go too deep and actually enter the bone.  I've administered other shots to myself for medical reasons and it's similar to pushing the shot into an orange with a tough skin.   Since I my kids participate in beekeeping, I carry an Epi Pen with me.

Nelly
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: 1of6 on September 03, 2008, 04:27:13 pm
What is required to get an epipen?  No one in my family is allergic, but I'd feel better having one around in case someone in the neighborhood does have an allergic reaction.
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: annette on September 04, 2008, 04:33:25 pm
You have to get a prescription from the dr and it costs some money. I had to pay 35.00 for a package of two and they are only good for one year and then they expire.
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: Romahawk on September 04, 2008, 07:11:26 pm
What is required to get an epipen?  No one in my family is allergic, but I'd feel better having one around in case someone in the neighborhood does have an allergic reaction.

You might want to check and see what the liability might be if you administered a shot to someone other than yourself. That might come under the heading of practicing medicine without a license.
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: 1of6 on September 05, 2008, 12:40:05 am
It's like life insurance - no one wants to have to use it.  I understand your thought though.

If they want to sue me, I'll gladly have it.  I'll even have them over for dinner the following week if they're alive to eat with me.  :)  I'd feel worse doing nothing.  Neglect is a terrible thing.
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: Nelly on September 06, 2008, 03:25:48 pm
I got the pen because my kids do beekeeping with me, and I just want to be prepared.  I got the rx from my doctor, taking my kid's weights into consideration for the proper dosage.

Susan
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: DennisD on September 25, 2008, 07:10:50 pm
What is required to get an epipen?  No one in my family is allergic, but I'd feel better having one around in case someone in the neighborhood does have an allergic reaction.

You might want to check and see what the liability might be if you administered a shot to someone other than yourself. That might come under the heading of practicing medicine without a license.

You are allowed to ASSIST someone administer their OWN Epi injection. If you use YOUR Epi-pen and can articulate it's use to save LIFE, you are covered under a broad spectrum of the "Good Samaritan Act". Now, this is "within reason" and must meet the criteria where "another person of similar understanding and means would have acted the same", this is a way of saying "Just because someone is having a heart attack, does not provide you with the legal freedom to perform open heart surgery. Although a person with a good grasp of an emergency tracheotomy would fall under the same legal protection of the Good Samaritan Act where an ill or injured person's airway was closed at the epiglottis and this technique was performed by a "lay person" that had a "reasonable understanding" of this form of "intervention" to save a life.

Caveat for MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS: Check with your state's protocols concerning the GOOD SAMARITAN ACT and your SCOPE OF PRACTICE -v- negligence (In acting above and beyond scope of practice or a reasonable person with the same training -v- would they have acted similarly) as some states have different policies regarding medical professionals as the Good Sam act is primarily designed to protect "lay persons" from legal consequences in attempt to save a life where lay persons once were hesitant to intervene with an acutely injured/ill person due to legal peril this increasing the survivability of victims of illness or injury in absence of EMS/Medical personnel. A good first aid/first responders course for your area of legal jurisdiction can explain further your areas of limitations in respect to lay person medical intervention to save lives. Generally and within "general reasoning", medical intervention to persons in immediate peril of dying carried broad relief for the lay person administering such interventions. Again, consult your local laws concerning the Good Samaritan Act.

Note: I am not a LAWYER nor do I play one on TV.... It is up to you to use what you know and have to SAVE A LIFE, unlike an off duty EMT, EMT-P, RT, RN, DO or MD that STOPS at the scene, you have NO LEGAL DUTY TO ACT, only measure your own MORAL DUTY to act against what you know, have available versus unreasonable, scene safety, etc. Further examples of an unreasonable act in addition to gross unreasonable intervention is to place you are a rescuer in harms way to effect a rescue where you become a second victim, i.e. running through traffic on a freeway to assist the injured, thus causing you to be struck by another vehicle and injuring the occupants, you have no legal relief to prevent that other car's occupants from suing you, or if one of the occupants die, you may very well face negligent manslaughter criminal charges as a "reasonable person would have not done so".

Sorry for the book, but there is NO cut and dry answer without explaining further. Again, knowledge is POWER, check your local laws concerning the Good Samaritan Act and have a reasonable head on your shoulders. I've done as best as I can to explain this to the very best of my understanding. I would hate to think someone here would die from allergic reaction to a bee sting where would be rescuers failed to act due to fear of law yet law is in place to legally protect the would be rescuer from legal peril due to acting to save life. Thus this long winded post.

On my part, INFORMED CONSENT directive, if you see ME down, and I have severe anaphylaxis and you have an Epi-Pen, STICK ME! I'll be glad you did, so will my kids.
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: Cindi on September 27, 2008, 12:09:54 pm
Dennis, excellent, I liked your "book", hee, hee.  You spent alot of time to respond to that post, and oh yep, yep, that is a good thing.  Have the most wonderful and awesome of these days, Cindi
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: Davepeg on November 04, 2008, 07:41:36 pm
Thank you for posting this important information.  It should be a "must read" for all beekeepers!
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: BjornBee on November 11, 2008, 09:29:37 am
For those who do not have an epi-pen, or have bees on someone else's property, an alternative, and perhaps even a safer one would be a bottle of benedryl.

It will not save your life, but will buy you an extra 20-30 minutes to get to a hospital, that you would not of otherwise had.

I have an epi-pen at the house. I originally got it to keep in the truck, but it is temperature sensitive.

I have bees on farms with children. And strongly suggest that every family have a bottle on hand.

And you don't take a teaspoon or two. If you are experiencing the beginnings tightening of the chest, difficulty breathing, etc.....you drink the WHOLE bottle. You may throw up, but it will buy you time.
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: tlozo on November 11, 2008, 11:17:57 am
Is the Benadryl the children's liquid strength? I can't find Benadryl for adults in liquid form. Or is it the same?
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: UtahBees on November 22, 2008, 02:14:27 am
My epi-pens on-hand saved my life this year.

Lesson learned #1: Don't wear un-tied tennis shoes while moving your beehives.

I was stung 7 times, 4 and 3, in each ankle. I thought I'm a man and can handle it. Besides I had been stung a few times and hadn't had a reaction.

7 times all at once crossed the line for my body. Breathing got more difficult, head, armpits, and other areas severely itchy. I understood that I was having a reaction. I went inside, whipped out the epi-pen, and asked my wife to stab me because I was a wuss.

(Side note: mine came with practice device. It trains you how to administer the shot. Very cool idea)

Within 1 minute things got easier, esp. breathing. Five minutes and I was doing much better. The hives took the night to go away.

So, what's really the first rule I learned this year? Have an epi-pen handy. Just in case :)

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3177/2882982456_95a6de571d_m.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/barl0w/2882982456/in/set-72157608522962124/)

Have a great weekend!
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: annette on November 22, 2008, 04:13:29 pm
Is the Benadryl the children's liquid strength? I can't find Benadryl for adults in liquid form. Or is it the same?

I have the liquid but do not remember if adult or child. I will have to go up to the storage shack and take a look later today. Will get back to you and let you know.
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: Zane on March 09, 2009, 12:04:27 pm
GREAT info. Thanks.
I did have a problem getting a "script" since "I" wasnt allergic, but my ex is and she drops off stuff once in a great while. Mostly I was wanting one or 2 as a "just in case" reason. Anyone know of the right thing to tell the Dr to get them to losen up?
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: lowlander on March 10, 2009, 12:20:59 pm
Hi Everyone,

I commend everyone for their comments and info.  I am first aid certified with the Canadian Coast Guard and the only thing that I can add is that if you find someone who has just been stung and has an epi pen of their own you may still need to help.  This is because the needle on an epi pen is quite thick and hurts when it goes in - in most cases it will leave a good bruise.  The normal reaction for people who have used an epi pen in the past, is that they will be holding the epi pen in their hand - not wanting to give it to themselves because they know how much it will hurt.  You need to ask their permission to give it to them, if they start to pass out, are not able to answer or black out, you can assume consent is given and administer the epi pen.

Brian
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: redbeard on March 11, 2009, 10:06:32 am
If you don't have an epi pen you can use benedryil.  The kind that come in the strips that melt on your tongue.  That is one of the faster ways for medicine to enter the body other than injection. 
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: Davepeg on March 11, 2009, 12:49:23 pm
Our doctor also would not prescribe a pen for me.  He was concerned about the liability if we used it on someone else (which is the point as my husband and I have not had problems, yet, with stings).  The bottle of bendryl is a good idea, I'm going to make sure I at least have that in my cabinet.
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: rast on March 12, 2009, 09:25:23 pm
 I bought a package of 2 pens today. $60. Ouch, unless, someone around me needs it. My doctor did not give me a problem writting the prescription along with all the other drugs (mostly heart). All I did when he questioned me was say that I never knew when my immunity could go the other way. "You know how it can be with histens Doc". Also wrote it with 2 refills. I never aluded that it could be for someone else. Always me.
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: dpence on March 13, 2009, 02:18:43 am
Good information.  One never knows what kind of situation my arise.

David
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: JayC on April 05, 2009, 12:34:55 pm
Telling a doc that you want it on hand to give "someone" is probably a bad idea.  Some docs, without knowing you have an allergy, may just be stubborn and refuse to do it.  Hopefully most wouldn't be like that.  I plan on telling my doc that while I've been stung twice, and have had normal reactions, but that my dad has a history of anaphyllaxis, and that I'd rather have an epi pen around in case I follow his footsteps.  Now...  I'm not telling anyone to lie to their doc, but unless your doc is also your dad's doc...
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: Highlandsfreedom on May 09, 2009, 09:29:38 am
I agree this is a must read for all.  thanks for the book it should bee published on the top reads. I know I learned a lot thanks.
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: OK Wildlife Control on June 03, 2009, 02:43:13 am
I didn't read all of the replies, so this might have already been addressed ... but I did read the first few.

An Epi-pen is a prescription ... and only for use for the one to whom it's prescribed. It can have fatal consequences if used improperly, or on someone else for whom it's not prescribed.
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: joker1656 on June 07, 2009, 10:36:14 pm
OK, I like your little quote.  The one about the cop being too heavy.  We need more lawabiders carrying guns.  I am a cop, and that is my opinion. 

Anyway, I was not sure where to post this question, but this looked like about the best spot.  What is a normal reaction to a bee sting?  When I get stung, I have some heavy-duty swelling at the sting site.  For example, I was stung on the top of my foot last night.  Long story...  Today I have an ankle and foot that are about twice their normal size.  This happens every time I am stung.  Huge local swelling.  I dont mind it, neccessarily, I just wondered if this was a normal reaction.  My wife is concerned that I am "mildly allergic".  I keep telling her that I will buiild an immunity over time.  I am starting to wonder, though. 

Thanks for any responses. 
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: Karl Wisconsin on August 06, 2009, 11:00:17 pm
Big thing to remember : If someone is getting into trouble call 911. In some cases a second epi pen is needed. Get help coming immediately. I was an E.M.T. for 21 years here in Wisconsin. Each of our ambos carried at least two pens.
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: hardwood on August 12, 2009, 11:35:18 pm
Zane, tell your Doc that you're a beekeeper and have heard of other beeks who have developed an intolerance to the stings and you only want it "just in case" most will oblige. After all he doesn't want you wearing a body bag to your next visit eh?

I keep a coulpe of epipens in the frige, both adult and epipen juniors just in case. My father developed an intolerance (suprisingly not from too many bee stings but rather from too many fire ant stings,,,similar toxins I surmise) but he still works bees knowing that the pen is never far away.

Note: if you ever have to use one you still need immediate medical attention!

Peace be yours,
Scott
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: Kathyp on August 12, 2009, 11:43:23 pm
joker, you have a large local reaction.  it  may get better, or it may get worse.  i have the same and it has been that way always.  i have the epi-pens just in case.  it you have reactions it's worth it to carry the pens in case your reactions develop into a full blown allergy.  what you have now is a sensitivity to the stings.  your doc should have no problem writing for them and you should get 2.
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: joker1656 on August 13, 2009, 11:37:45 am
Kathy, since I asked this question I have been stung numerous times....(obviously, right? LOL)  I no longer have a sensitivity, it seems.  The last 15, or so, times I have been stung have resulted in little to no swelling.  Most of those times were through my suit.  I thought, maybe, it was because the stingers were not able to get all the way in.  Not so; I was stung twice this past weekend.  They got me once between the eyes, and once on the ear.  They both felt GREAT!!! :'(  I had no swelling between the eyes, and very very minimal swelling on the ear.  Both stingers were ALL the way in.  The ear stinger drew blood. 

The epi-pen and the benadryl are always at the ready, though.  I am just happy to not have to deal with the swelling and itching.....for now.  I have heard that it can go the other way without warning.  We will see.  :)
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: deknow on August 29, 2009, 12:02:58 pm
um, there is some very important information missing here.  in the interest of safety (and liability of those reading), mods, this should be near the top of the thread, not the bottom.

AN EPI-PEN IS NOT A CURE FOR AN ANAPHALACTIC REACTION.  ITS PURPOSE IS TO BUY TIME WHILE MEDICAL HELP IS ON ITS WAY (OR YOU ARE ON YOUR WAY TO IT).  THE DECISION TO USE AN EPI-PEN SHOULD BE SECONDARY TO THE DECISION TO GET ACTUAL MEDICAL HELP.  IF YOU DON'T NEED MEDICAL HELP, YOU DON'T NEED AN EPI-PEN.  THIS IS A STOPGAP MEASURE, NOT A CURE, NOT A TREATMENT, NOT A SUBSTITUTE. 

i would never advise that someone use an epi-pen on someone other than who it was prescribed for, but i can imagine a situation where i would do so.  i would do my best to get instructions from 911 to do so, but not getting such instructions wouldn't prevent me from doing so...but i would also be on the way to the hospital.

deknow
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: annette on August 29, 2009, 02:56:31 pm
Good point in bringing this up.  I just assumed that people would understand this fact, but good to mention this.
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: mjdtexan on January 16, 2010, 06:14:12 pm
Have you guys settled on a reliable source for epi-pens yet?  :pop:
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: buzzbee on January 16, 2010, 11:01:39 pm
Have you guys settled on a reliable source for epi-pens yet?  :pop:
The only place to get them is from a pharmacy after getting a prescription or if your personal physician gives you one.They can not be purchased over the counter.
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: Roadigger on January 26, 2010, 03:53:49 am

 Hello everyone I am new to this site. I have just got back into keeping bees last summer with 4 langsroth hives. I however several years ago got stung about 10 times one day all at one time. I wasn't wearing any hood or anything I was leting my daughter use it. Any ways after we were done didn't think much about it and was getting ready to seat down to eat and I all of a sudden heard pounding in my ears and my body got real heavy and weak. Chest felt heavy also. I yell for my wide to drive me to the hospital. Sice I live in the country. I had my head out the window sucking air as it helped. by the time I got there I was covered in hives and itching. They took care of me and kept me over night. The doctor told me I had
 anaphalic shock spell wrong. he said no more bees for me and that I could die next time. For some reason you can become allergic at any time in your life. I went to an allergist and she was really intrested in treating me. I said I just got to do bee I love it. She agreeded and I took bee venom shoots for a year.
 I probably should of taken them longer because they say it can take a few years. But she told me I was protected and if I really wanted to take the chance she could not stop me. So with 2 epi pens I started off with 4 hives. After installing bees I was wearing Black socks and was working them faceing the entrance what a dope. I got stung about 8 times on my ankles as my wife watch me. I sat down and waited it out to see what would happen to me. Nothing just the usual swelling and itch. I then continued to get some bees and sting my self about 4 times a week and I have been good to go . So watch it all of you I am 6 foot 6 and those 10 little women who stung me almost took me down. But I love bees as you all do.   Ron
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: Dracono on February 21, 2010, 02:22:18 am
Here is a safty NOTE for every one who uses an epi-pen... when you give it to your self or some one else
make sure to not have your thumb over the back ove the pen for it can break and you get the spring shoved through your thumb....
I know this porsonaly. I was in my E.M.T. class and the teacher accedently had done this and had to be rushed to the e.r. as for it when straight through his thumb.

I have Epie-pens also. I had just told my doc that I am now starting to keep bee's and I wanted to be safe...
and she asked me if I ever had an alergic reactions to bee stings.
O told her when I was a kid I was a stupid young kid and when I was in the forest I had tossed rocks at this hive... BAD ME almost cost me my life. I berly mad it back to the highway and woke up in the E.R.
So she whent on and gave me the pens. although I have had been stung sence then but not more then 1 be at a time. I want to be safe just in case.

As for if I had to use it on any one else I would do so with out a second thought. The 2 best places to give the shot at is the outer side of the thigh and on the tricept although it hurts more on the arm but it works much faster... FYI.
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: Storm on July 10, 2010, 12:02:01 am
I am a beek who is allergic.  I am a second generation beek, and as a child, I was stung in the throat by a bumble bee that was looking to rob a hive my uncle and I were working.  Later that same summer, I accidentally backed into a tree that had a hornet's nest, and was stung over 25 times along the length of my body, resulting in anaphylaxis and renal toxicity.  Since then a single sting will result in a reaction ranging from severe swelling and redness, to full-blown allergic reaction with hives, itching, and breathing loss. 

I always carry my epi-pens in the apiary, and usually some liquid children's benadryl as well, for the more mild stings.  By the way, the correct dose of Liquid Children's Benadryl for an adult having a moderate allergic reaction (i.e. severe swelling but no hives or anaphylaxis) is 8 teaspoons.  This equals 50mg of regular Benadryl.  If you are having hives and itching, or trouble breathing, it is best to use the epi-pen and get medical help, IMHO.  As stated repeatedly on this forum, one never knows when the allergy will take a nasty turn.

Take it from me...don't let allergies keep you from your bees.  And all beeks would be wise to learn how to use the pen, for their own sake, and for the life they might one day save.
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: Kathyp on July 10, 2010, 12:22:23 am
Quote
By the way, the correct dose of Liquid Children's Benadryl for an adult having a moderate allergic reaction (i.e. severe swelling but no hives or anaphylaxis) is 8 teaspoons.  This equals 50mg of regular Benadryl.


i carry liquid benadryl also.  one of the very nice things about it is that a good swig will not OD you.  i tend to get stung doing things like cutouts and i don't remember to take a spoon, but the benadryl is in the cutout kit.   :-D
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: Pillpeddler on August 05, 2010, 04:20:28 pm
Ok, a little Epipen education.
1)  If you are truly having an anaphylactic reaction, as apposed to severe sting-site swelling, it is a bodywide hypersensitivity reaction.  You could be stung on the toe and have hives all over your body (bad sign), angioedema where some part of your body puffs up (really, really bad) or your throat could swell until you cannot breath (you get the idea).   Any of these last 3 are LIFE THREATENING emergencies.  The chemical processes that are in motion during anaphylaxis can last 3 or more days...   an Epipen lasts 15 to 20 minutes.   An Epipen is a crutch to get you to the hospital so that medications can be administered to hopefully contain the reaction.  You might get to go home in a couple of hours or you might spend a few days in the hospital depending on the severity of the reaction.   
2)  An Epipen is a dose of epinepherine, a drug that can have significant side effects.  It can even have life-threatening side effects under some circumstances so it isn't something to play around with.   Talk with your MD and see if he or she thinks you actually need to have an Epipen.
3)  They shouldn't be used for a routine sting (ie- you have no itching or tightness of the throat, no unusual swelling of a non-stung site) that could easily be treated with an over the counter antihistamine.

Always talk medical situations over with your physician, they are trained to take care of us and most of them do a great job.   Any time you are stung be very aware of what is happening to your body.   The degree that a person will react to a sting is never 100% predictable but normally the longer you go without a problem the less likely you are to have a problem but there are no absolutes.  Normally problems will progress in steps (ie- hives, then worse hives, then angioedema, then full blown anaphylactic shock) but, again , there are no absolutes.  I know of people who have gone from "wow, I'm a little itchy" to "call 911" in one step.

One last thing, Benadryl or any other antihistamine, will have a dose for adults on the bottle that should not be exceeded.  More will typically only increase the side effects.

Y'all be careful out there.

Pill
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: hoxbar on August 05, 2010, 04:23:42 pm
I'm an EMT, and I've seen several  people go into anaphalactic shock from bee stings. I strongly suggest if you get stung, take a Benadryl even if you think you do not need it. A Benadryl will really help. If you start feeling itchy, or tingly you need to start getting yourself some help. Dial 911 get your epi and give yourself an injection or have someone help you. This is a life and death situation, immediate action must be taken.
Something that I do not think anyone has mentioned about an epi-pen. DO NOT DRIVE YOURSELF TO THE HOSPITAL after an epi-pen injection. 95% of people that get an epi-injection will have the worst headache of their lives following an injection.  The headache is as bad as a migraine and most people can not function.
Also, you still should go to the emergency room after an epi-injection, even if you do not have a headache. Your blood pressure will be extremely high after an epi and those with hypertension could suffer a stroke.
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: Storm on August 06, 2010, 03:29:17 pm
Great info Pillpeddler & hoxbar.  As I say, better safe than dead. 

One last thing, Benadryl or any other antihistamine, will have a dose for adults on the bottle that should not be exceeded.  More will typically only increase the side effects.
Pill

The correct dose is 8 teaspoons (2 2/3 tablespoons).  It is not always marked on the bottle, since the bottle is labeled for children, not adults.

I95% of people that get an epi-injection will have the worst headache of their lives following an injection.  The headache is as bad as a migraine and most people can not function.
Also, you still should go to the emergency room after an epi-injection, even if you do not have a headache. Your blood pressure will be extremely high after an epi and those with hypertension could suffer a stroke.

So true, hoxbar.  I have cluster headaches and hypertension already, and after an epi injection, my head just about pounds open.  This is just one of the reasons why those who carry epi-pens may hesitate to use them when they really need them, FYI.

Thanks again to all who have posted here.  it's important for all beeks to know what to do in an allergic emergency, whether for themselves or for another person.  I'd like to suggest that those who are club members might make this a discussion topic for a meeting.  The more informed that we all are, the better.
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: L Daxon on August 10, 2010, 10:32:43 pm
I read about this earlier this spring and bought a bottle of children's liquid benedryl to have on hand instead of the eipi pen.  I got stung a few weeks ago on the hand (hadn't been stung in 20 years) and I got real flush and broke out in hives from head to toe and felt a little woosie, though I didn't have any trouble breathing. I downed about half the bottle of the children's benedryl and my nurse brother-in-law and dietitian sister just happened to be at my house and kept an eye on me.  We talked about going to the hospital, but since I was breathing OK I didn't.  In about 20 to 30 mintues the hives went away. My hand eventually puffed up like a catcher's mit and the next day a doc gave me some steriods for the swelling.
On the assumption that the next time I am stung the reaction could be worse, I went ahead and got an epi pen.  But I think my real plan of action will be in the event of a future sting to down the benedryl and drive straight to the hospital emergency room (which is about 8 minutes away).  If I start having trouble breathing, I will go in.  If after 20-30 minutes I don't seem to be having trouble, I will go back home.
My doctor son told me to be particularly careful if I get stung on the neck/throat area. Given the way I swell up, my wind pipe could swell shut if I am stung in that area. So of course I don't get into the hive now without full protection from the waist up.
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: Ibeehappy on October 03, 2010, 12:27:37 pm
I think the most important thing to remember about Epi is if you have to give it you should ALWAYS call 911 after you give even one injection.  The medicine will last only so long before you may begin to have problems again.  And suffocation sucks!  Also don't panic- give the shot in the thigh and wait a little bit before you take the needle out if you have to give it to your self.  I've taught this loads of times in the ER and with school nursing and people always forget that step.  Benedryl is a wonderful drug- it will help with most reactions. Liquid is better than pills because the body absorbs it better and the strips act quicker than the liquid.  However if your airway is feeling swollen or your chest feels tight and you are even slightly working to breath call 911 even if you have epi.  I say that because I've seen loads of people blow it off then show up at the er in terrible shape and we have to do a lot to keep them breathing. 
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: bigbearomaha on October 03, 2010, 07:45:47 pm
honestly friends,  I have read this whole thread.  if  I might bee so bold...

I will not allow anyone in my bee yards unless they have signed a release form and waiver.   I inform everyone who will be working in my bee yards that if they suspect they might bee allergic, they need to get to a doctor and get an epi-pen prescribed to them and have it with them when they come to the bee yard. 

They also need to let me know if they need and have an epi-pen.

The next piece of advice  I have for any and every beekeeper is always try to have a "bee buddy" with you on site.  Not only can the extra pair of hands and eyes bee useful working hives, but having that other person around can be critical if something requiring medical attention comes up.

I also keep benadryl on hand at all times and  I have first aid training, including the knowledge of how to administer an epi-pen shot.  I am not allergic and I will not have one prescribed to me to use on someone else.  It's not just about how litigious the recipient might or might not bee.

I always keep a cell phone charged and handy any time  I am working around bees.

I think it is not enough to think having an epi-pen on hand is the solution to potential problems.  One needs a plan, kind of like an integrated pest management plan.

I think the discussion here is an important one to have though. 

good posts everyone.

Big Bear

Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: Pete on October 05, 2010, 06:50:07 pm
Another missing bit in the information here is, what is bee sting first aid? Just giving some one meds cant be the answer, you wont always have them?

What else can you do? Remove the stinger, immobilise, elevate, compress?
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: L Daxon on October 12, 2010, 12:38:05 am
Well, it has been two months since I was stung on the hand and had a big reaction with full body hives and major swelling, so much swelling in fact that the doc gave me some steroids (I couldn't even begin to close my hand or get my watch off).  I am happy to report I have been stung six times since then (one of the stings was from a wasp/yellow jacket) and I have had virtually no reaction -- not even itching with the subsequent stings.  The next 4 times I was stung, I immediately chugged liquid benadryl, swabbed the area with AfterBite (a stick pen I got at CVS) and put ice on the sting. The last 2 times I haven't even taken any benadryl.  Just used AfterBite and some ice.  I did get a little swelling when I was stung again on the hand but nothing like the first time. 

I hope all this means I am developing an immunity to the stings.  Or at least my reactions aren't getting worse with each sting as I have heard can happen. I think part of what helps is getting something on the sting site immediately, which I can do since my hives are in my back yard.  I know some have said putting heat on the sting site helps them but the ice sure seems to work for me.
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: David McLeod on October 31, 2010, 04:55:17 pm
Interesting reading. I have considered the epi in the past to the point of actually getting a scrip for one with three refills. After much discussion with the missus we decided not to fill it since i have never had a bad reaction to a sting. I do not even swell at the sting site and the itching subsides within minutes. My chief concern is always those around me since I am a NWCO and do cutouts and swarm removal. It was the liability issues of adminstering a prescribed medication to others tht swayed me against. What if I had the epi available and withheld it for fear of liability or what if the epi was not needed but administered anyway. To many what ifs for my taste, so I keep benadryl on hand at all times and the cell phone ready.
I am changing some things this year in how I conduct business. I will be drafting a new waiver and establishing some hard and fast rules for my clients to sign when I do a cut out plus I will never agian do another cut out or swarm removal unassisted and my fees will reflect the second person on site. I can only do so much to protect my clients without playing superhero and will get it in writing.
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: Minyassa on February 21, 2011, 03:19:09 am
Being a newcomer both to bees and this forum, I came to this thread first because the last time I was stung by an insect (yellowjacket), some 15 years ago, I had a mild anaphylactic reaction, almost like an incomplete asthma attack, that went away after I took Benadryl.  The incident frightened my husband and he took me immediately to get an Epi-pen.  I still have it, but obviously it has now expired.  Until I read this thread, I was not taking the whole "get a new epi-pen" issue seriously despite my mother and husband wanting to swat me for dragging my heels on it...someone told me that there are plenty of allergic beekeepers and do I ever read about beekeeping deaths in the newspaper?  Nope.  So I thank you all for this thread for potentially saving my life, but I have a couple of questions now:

1.  Am I legally endangering my mentor in any way?  Of course I will tell him or her (haven't met my mentor yet, just started training) about my past reaction, and I will certainly carry my new epi-pen with me to bee yard sessions, but I want to make sure that I am not going to come off as inconsiderate or stupid or a troublemaker (my best friend just told me "to me it sounds like Superman working in a Kryptonite mine").

2.  How do I now get over the mind-numbing *terror* of finding out whether I am actually allergic by risking having to punch a ginormous hole in my leg with a potentially thumb-impaling needle the thickness of a space shuttle and then suffering hours of misery and thousands of dollars of medical incapacitation?  Please give me some kind of a talk-down here, because this thread scared the heck out of me while awakening my common sense.

PS--while I have only had the one reaction to a wasp sting as far as insects go, I had the same mild respiratory reaction to a bite from a jumping spider more recently but not to stings from a venomous caterpillar a few years ago.  The spider bite was almost exactly like the yellowjacket sting; the caterpillar stings were horribly painful and itchy, but only locally around the sting site and without any breathing problem at all.  During none of these events have I experienced full body itching, just the usual pain and swelling of a sting.
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: Jim 134 on February 21, 2011, 08:40:57 am
someone told me that there are plenty of allergic beekeepers

 I have been doing beekeeping for over 50  years and I have meet one.GO TO A DR. AND GET  A TEST  ........


          BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: James M. Wagner on April 14, 2011, 10:32:20 pm


You might want to check and see what the liability might be if you administered a shot to someone other than yourself. That might come under the heading of practicing medicine without a license.
[/quote]

I believe you are correct in that.

I am a licensed EMT in Alabama and I am legally able to only 'assist' a patient in administering a dose to themselves. That dose must have been prescribed to the patient AND not be expired. In other words, i cannot procure an epi pen for 'emergencies' that may crop up with someone visiting my own beeyard because the epi pen will obviously NOT have been specifically prescribed to that person.

The simplest (and best) thing to do - call 911 if someone gets stung and is having an allergic reaction. Paramedics have a lot more leeway in what they can do and often carry epi pens in their rescue vehicle or ambulance. Even then, they must get permission from medical control PRIOR to administration of the drug.

Laws to vary by state, so I would seriously consider looking into what your laws are before going to the expense of getting a prescription to buy epi pens that you intend to be used on other people. Find out what a layperson can do to administer first aid to a bee sting victim in your state. It will likely be simply an ice pack. Epinephrine is a drug and drugs do have side effects. If you administer a prescription drug to someone other than to whom it was prescribed and they have and adverse reaction then you are in deep doodoo.

My 2 centavos.

-James Wagner, NREMT
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: Kathyp on April 14, 2011, 10:49:44 pm
so wrap their fingers around the thing and give it.  what?  you are going to let them die because of liability? 

if your mentor is concerned, write a note for him.
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: iddee on April 15, 2011, 01:20:42 am
NC has the good Samaritan law. If you suspect someone is going to die if they don't receive help, you cannot be held liable for trying to help them. Even if it doesn't work.
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: Jim 134 on April 15, 2011, 06:49:20 am
NC has the good Samaritan law. If you suspect someone is going to die if they don't receive help, you cannot be held liable for trying to help them. Even if it doesn't work.


  It is the same law in MA.


   BEE HAPPY Jim 134
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: Katharina on June 13, 2011, 03:07:07 pm
An Epi pen can save lives, but it can also kill.  There are people out there that are oversensitive and I'm one of them.  This shot will kill me.  The first one who noticed that was my dentist.  Yes, I did say dentist.  Their Novocaine shots contain small amounts of epinephrine.  This makes the shot last longer and reduces bleeding.  He injected only a little bit of it and I went into trouble.  I needed an oxygen tank and was on my way to the hospital via ambulance.  This experience was not pleasant.  I was sick for 3 days, not to mention the migraine it gives you.  Now my folder is marked with a huge sticker not to use it.  They do have Novocaine without epinephrine, only the shot wears off faster.  I had my overreaction to epi confirmed later in the hospital again before I needed stomach surgery to keep me safe.  So this is my little warning, be careful because you can do harm.  Also if you use it on someone let the ambulance know so they will not administer adrenalin, which they sometimes do in these situation.  The combination of epinephrine and adrenalin is deadly, it puts the patient into full cardiac arrest.  If you get a prescription for epi ask for the child dosage.  Two children shots equal one adult shot.  You don't want to give a full dose to a child.  Sometimes it is better to give half a dose to an adult too.  As stated before you are only buying time with it.  Also the chances of being truly allergic are not that high, and the pens are only good for one year. 
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: mikecva on June 21, 2011, 09:02:29 am
Great posting. One thing to add: I have received different pens over the years and have have observed great similarities between them but there are differences in the auto-injectors, so if you are assisting someone with theirs, take a few seconds to inhail twice and look at the directions so you do not break the pen pulling off the wrong end.
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: Lone on June 21, 2011, 10:44:09 am
Hello,

Quote
Also if you use it on someone let the ambulance know so they will not administer adrenalin, which they sometimes do in these situation.  The combination of epinephrine and adrenalin is deadly, it puts the patient into full cardiac arrest.

That's interesting, Katharina, because adrenaline is the term we use here in Australia for what you know as epinephrine.   ;)   
Lone
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: Kathyp on June 21, 2011, 11:08:01 am
Quote
here in Australia for what you know as epinephrine

might she have been talking about the natural adrenalin dump you get when agitated?  that was my thought  :-)
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: Lone on June 21, 2011, 11:09:37 am
Same chemical, Kathy.
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: beekeeperookie on September 29, 2011, 08:37:22 am
I told my doc i kept bees and he gave me a prescription. 

I do recommend reading the directions before using them, as my husband decided to see how long the needle was accidently stuck himself in his tumb.  To make a long story short he had to see a vein specialist and take injections in his stomach to open his veins in his tumb or he could have lost it.  So i recommend to read the directions.  Unfortunatly during his whole time in the doctors office i was laughing
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: yockey5 on September 29, 2011, 04:45:27 pm
I told my doc i kept bees and he gave me a prescription. 

I do recommend reading the directions before using them, as my husband decided to see how long the needle was accidently stuck himself in his tumb.  To make a long story short he had to see a vein specialist and take injections in his stomach to open his veins in his tumb or he could have lost it.  So i recommend to read the directions.  Unfortunatly during his whole time in the doctors office i was laughing


 :lau: :lau: :lau: :lau: :lau: :lau: :lau:
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: Lone on September 29, 2011, 10:16:32 pm
Quote
To make a long story short he had to see a vein specialist and take injections in his stomach to open his veins in his tumb

I've seen an accidental injection into the hand by a young girl who thought she was using her practice pen.  But after review of the literature the doctor was confident there were no documented problems from injection into the hand, and after a while the colour started to return to normal.  Here is one such study. 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2526033/ (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2526033/)

Lone
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: BoxerDad on November 06, 2011, 09:50:43 pm
I have two on hand as well as my middle daughter is allergic to peanuts. Hopefully not bee venom.
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: tedlemay on January 11, 2012, 11:43:23 pm
was wondering whether or not to get one, now i think i will! sounds like a good precaution!
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: Javin on July 16, 2012, 12:33:01 am
While I'll be asking my doctor for a pen just because I keep bees and would HATE to be in that situation, how often have you found that you see a reaction like this?  From what I can find online, only 1 in 10,000 people are actually allergic to bee venom, and many of those aren't allergic in the sense that it will kill them.  Have you guys seen the numbers in real life to be different?
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: tjc1 on October 06, 2012, 07:54:05 pm
Just so you are prepared... I have a high-deductible health plan, and when I went to CVS to pick up the prescription I almost fell over - $200 for two pens, and you can't buy them singly! Almost passed on them, but I wanted to keep my bees. I was getting increasingly strong reactions with each sting and so felt it necessary to have the Epipen on hand in case.
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: buzzbee on October 07, 2012, 08:36:34 am
Although it may seem rare it does happen. this story is real close to our home. The man had no previous allergy when stung before. These were yellow jackets,not honeybees, but the end result is still tragic.
http://www.lockhaven.com/page/content.detail/id/541254/Life-cut-short.html?nav=5009 (http://www.lockhaven.com/page/content.detail/id/541254/Life-cut-short.html?nav=5009)
I have epis just in case. 10 minutes or more for the ambulance to arrive here may be the last 10. I only ever had a local reaction,but why chance it.
The doctor did not hesitate the least when told I was a beekeeper.
The epi pack comes with a trainer pen. Use it and be familiar. In the middle of a reaction is no time to read the instuctions.Time is not on your side at this point.
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: Javin on October 31, 2012, 03:02:24 pm
I realize it's been almost a month, but I've been out for awhile.  :D  (Got married.)

On this note, I think it's important to point out that as few as 1 in 100 people are allergic to some form of wasp (or hornet) sting, while only 1 in 10,000 are allergic to bee venom.  For centuries, bee stings have been used to build an immunity to hornet stings.
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: deknow on November 16, 2012, 05:41:52 pm
On this note, I think it's important to point out that as few as 1 in 100 people are allergic to some form of wasp (or hornet) sting, while only 1 in 10,000 are allergic to bee venom.  For centuries, bee stings have been used to build an immunity to hornet stings.

Is there a source for this statistic?

deknow
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: buzzbee on November 18, 2012, 12:41:15 pm
If you are actively keeping bees and are not sure of your sensitivity,I would hate to find I am a statistic. Even though you may not be sensitive now,you could become sensitive in time.And the risk is multiplied if you open a hot hive and get stung repeatedly. I'll err on the side of caution since I am in a rural area.
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: fshrgy99 on March 02, 2013, 10:17:16 am
I know this is an old thread but thought I'd ad my .02 worth. Never seen it needed or used, got one anyway .... in case.
Title: Re: Howto: Administer an Epinephrine Shot
Post by: greg755 on April 17, 2013, 05:14:29 pm
I never thought of getting a pen because I always wear a FULL bee suit.  That is until last August when I didnt quite get a zipper all the way closed.  It is amazing just how fast five bees can get inside such a small hole and sting you.  Anyways, thanks for all the comments AND warnings/precautions.