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Online Kathyp

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Re: Forum Activity
« Reply #20 on: October 01, 2022, 02:22:59 pm »
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This is not untrue, and I think it's unfortunate, because there should be nothing wrong with respectful political discussion, especially if it's kept separate from other topics, like it is on our forum.  Healthy political debate is the backbone of democracy, and while a bee forum might not be the best place for it, in our world today it seems like it's the only place left where it's acceptable, and therefore I appreciate it.     

one of the brilliant things John did was make the coffee house.  Most of us had belonged to other sites that ended up having political fights in the middle of beekeeping info.  As much as I enjoy the political debates, I left those sites because it got nasty and obscured the beekeeping info.

We have an outlet for political and other debate here, and those who don't want to participate in that stuff don't even need to look at it.  I can't see why anyone would be discouraged from joining for beekeeping info just because some of us enjoy other debates...as long as it is kept separate.

Someone really ought to tell them that the world of Ayn Rand?s novel was not meant to be aspirational.

Offline Acebird

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Re: Forum Activity
« Reply #21 on: October 01, 2022, 02:53:34 pm »

So in your opinion literally no human should be a moderator?
   
No.  Some people may not have an opinion on any given topic but the key thing for a moderator is not to voice theirs.  By doing so in a discussion you have chosen a side and in that case you are not moderating.
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Forum Activity
« Reply #22 on: October 01, 2022, 03:09:40 pm »
I can't see why anyone would be discouraged from joining for beekeeping info just because some of us enjoy other debates...as long as it is kept separate.

Keeping it separate is a great idea and as you say this site has had better success then any other site I have been on.  That being said a club is a club and controlling pack mentality requires not joining one side or the other in a discussion.  The pack will most likely drive the opposing view from the club.  If you don't think that has happened here then the membership is not going to change much.
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Online The15thMember

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Re: Forum Activity
« Reply #23 on: October 01, 2022, 04:58:33 pm »
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This is not untrue, and I think it's unfortunate, because there should be nothing wrong with respectful political discussion, especially if it's kept separate from other topics, like it is on our forum.  Healthy political debate is the backbone of democracy, and while a bee forum might not be the best place for it, in our world today it seems like it's the only place left where it's acceptable, and therefore I appreciate it.     

one of the brilliant things John did was make the coffee house.  Most of us had belonged to other sites that ended up having political fights in the middle of beekeeping info.  As much as I enjoy the political debates, I left those sites because it got nasty and obscured the beekeeping info.

We have an outlet for political and other debate here, and those who don't want to participate in that stuff don't even need to look at it.  I can't see why anyone would be discouraged from joining for beekeeping info just because some of us enjoy other debates...as long as it is kept separate.
The only reason it worries me is politics is SUCH a hot topic, especially right now, and there has been so little activity on the bee sections lately.  When people are thinking about joining the forum, it may seem like the bee section is dead and the only people left on here are arguing about politics.  If there is equal activity on bee threads, then I don't think the presence of the Coffee House affects anything, but when the first thing they see is the Coffee House, I worry about prospective members' first impressions.


So in your opinion literally no human should be a moderator?
   
No.  Some people may not have an opinion on any given topic but the key thing for a moderator is not to voice theirs.  By doing so in a discussion you have chosen a side and in that case you are not moderating.
I can't see why anyone would be discouraged from joining for beekeeping info just because some of us enjoy other debates...as long as it is kept separate.

Keeping it separate is a great idea and as you say this site has had better success then any other site I have been on.  That being said a club is a club and controlling pack mentality requires not joining one side or the other in a discussion.  The pack will most likely drive the opposing view from the club.  If you don't think that has happened here then the membership is not going to change much.
Why does every discussion have to have a side?  And even if it does, why is it a problem for a moderator to voice an opinion about it?  If everyone is allowed to speak their opinions freely, then who cares?  If moderators weren't allowed to voice opinions they wouldn't be able to answer questions or help people with problems.  The moderators job isn't to arbitrate every conversation and decide who is right and who is wrong, it's to make sure the forum rules are followed and that everything is working properly for everyone, including the moderators, to enjoy. 
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Offline William Bagwell

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Re: Forum Activity
« Reply #24 on: October 01, 2022, 07:34:15 pm »

one of the brilliant things John did was make the coffee house.  Most of us had belonged to other sites that ended up having political fights in the middle of beekeeping info.  As much as I enjoy the political debates, I left those sites because it got nasty and obscured the beekeeping info.

We have an outlet for political and other debate here, and those who don't want to participate in that stuff don't even need to look at it.  I can't see why anyone would be discouraged from joining for beekeeping info just because some of us enjoy other debates...as long as it is kept separate.
Agree this is a much more friendly forum than next door, however they are getting way more traffic. One possible reason may be that they hide their Coffee Klatch from non members. (As well as the even more political Tailgater) Disagree with Ace up above that only one side scares folks off. Many people are turned off by any kind of argument even on topic stuff and the folks who enjoy a fight are not necessarily who you want to attract...

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Forum Activity
« Reply #25 on: October 01, 2022, 08:07:55 pm »

First of all I would like to personally thank each of you for 'your' kind words directed toward the moderators and moderation.

The15thMember
Quote
The only reason it worries me is politics is SUCH a hot topic, especially right now, and there has been so little activity on the bee sections lately.  When people are thinking about joining the forum, it may seem like the bee section is dead and the only people left on here are arguing about politics.  If there is equal activity on bee threads, then I don't think the presence of the Coffee House affects anything, but when the first thing they see is the Coffee House, I worry about prospective members' first impressions.


The15thMember
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The moderators job isn't to arbitrate every conversation and decide who is right and who is wrong, it's to make sure the forum rules are followed and that everything is working properly for everyone, including the moderators, to enjoy.

Agree; Not only did John so brilliantly create the Coffeehouse, (a forum where 'any' topic 'EXCEPT' beekeeping can be discussed). John was just as 'brilliant' when creating The Bylaws. It is 'further' my option that 'if' the Bylaws were, 'respected', and therefore followed more closely, especially when it comes to politics in The Coffeehouse, We just might have more participants voicing their opinions and views there, which would not only be a boost to The Coffeehouse, but Beemaster Forums in general.

Phillip
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14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Forum Activity
« Reply #26 on: October 01, 2022, 08:30:54 pm »
William Bagwell
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One possible reason may be that they hide their Coffee Klatch from non members. (As well as the even more political Tailgater)

Thank you William. I was not aware that our neighbors conducts this practice but this is an option, and has been discussed between some of us in moderation.

Phillip
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Online Kathyp

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Re: Forum Activity
« Reply #27 on: October 01, 2022, 08:32:19 pm »
yeah, I don't have a problem with anyone expressing an opinion.  It's not my job to moderate opinions.  Only to keep people from getting nasty about them, using unacceptable language, or posting advertisements.  Beyond that, keep beekeeping in the bee section and the rest of the stuff where it goes.

I do think that the proliferation of social media choices has made forums less of a go-to for info.  I know for a fact that many of our old long-term members went to beemaster on Facebook and many started their own pages and youtube channels.  + it's winding down time for beekeeping in most of the US, so we have to live vicariously through our Downunder friends.   :grin:

I started on here in 2009ish and there was no Facebook or whatever else to speak of.  I made friends here and have met a lot of the old members at events.  Times change, people change, and unfortunately, some of our most active members from the past have died.  If you guys want to help keep this site going then mention it every chance you get on every site you frequent. 
Someone really ought to tell them that the world of Ayn Rand?s novel was not meant to be aspirational.

Offline gww

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Re: Forum Activity
« Reply #28 on: October 01, 2022, 09:57:44 pm »
I agree with william bagwell.  The other sites that do not have political come up when you hit new post are more welcoming for bee talk.  Moderating out politics from bee discussions are the right thing as I personally and probably wrongly look to helpful bee advice better when I don't know the persons giving the advices political or religious leanings.  On the other sites, you either have to pursue and look for the political part or have to had some conversation there to be notified that on threads you did participate in have had some comment.  I do think that is better if you are joining the site for bee talk and admit that I come here more for political cause it is in my face and not separate where I have to search for it and have an interest big enough to search for it.  I have been in very few political conversations on other bee sites.  In fact, except for bee topics that got out of hand, I did not even know a different site had a political section until they had a forum upgrade and mixed it till they got it worked out.  This is not a dig of this site as I have got to know you guys and am not mad in anyway.  I do check this site for different reasons then I do on other bee sites.   
Cheers
gww

Ps facebook, I never been and probably am never going.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Forum Activity
« Reply #29 on: October 02, 2022, 12:43:45 am »
William Bagwell
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One possible reason may be that they hide their Coffee Klatch from non members. (As well as the even more political Tailgater)

Thank you William. I was not aware that our neighbors conducts this practice but this is an option, and has been discussed between some of us in moderation.

Phillip

Hiding the  Coeeffeehouse from non members view might be of some help as far as new membership is concerned. Observing the Bylaws might be a great help as far as increased posting by current nor-posting members are concerned in The Cofffeehouse.

Phillip

Quote
Not only did John so brilliantly create the Coffeehouse, (a forum where 'any' topic 'EXCEPT' beekeeping can be discussed). John was just as 'brilliant' when creating The Bylaws. It is 'further' my option that 'if' the Bylaws were, 'respected', and therefore followed more closely, especially when it comes to politics in The Coffeehouse, We just might have more participants voicing their opinions and views there, which would not only be a boost to The Coffeehouse, but Beemaster Forums in general.

Phillip





« Last Edit: October 02, 2022, 12:59:31 am by Ben Framed »
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline Lesgold

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Re: Forum Activity
« Reply #30 on: October 02, 2022, 12:47:00 am »
As a relatively new member I would like to make a couple of comments on the structure and running of Beemaster. I have found moderators to be polite, friendly, respectful and encouraging in their comments. It is a site that has a warm, friendly and welcoming feel that encourages participation. As on other forum sites, there is always times where participation and membership goes through some quiet times but as long as politics and internal bickering are eliminated, membership and content should improve. I like that there is one section left out on its own where more robust discussion on just about any topic can be raised. This means that politics, religion beliefs etc can be eliminated from the main forum areas. I have looked in this section a few times but generally escaped quickly as I found myself experiencing the full range of emotions when reading comments made in some of those topics. I now don?t enter that section and feel comfortable participating in the other areas of the forum. It?s great to have that choice.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Forum Activity
« Reply #31 on: October 02, 2022, 06:44:43 am »

As a relatively new member I would like to make a couple of comments on the structure and running of Beemaster. I have found moderators to be polite, friendly, respectful and encouraging in their comments. It is a site that has a warm, friendly and welcoming feel that encourages participation. As on other forum sites, there is always times where participation and membership goes through some quiet times but as long as politics and internal bickering are eliminated, membership and content should improve. I like that there is one section left out on its own where more robust discussion on just about any topic can be raised. This means that politics, religion beliefs etc can be eliminated from the main forum areas. I have looked in this section a few times but generally escaped quickly as I found myself experiencing the full range of emotions when reading comments made in some of those topics. I now don?t enter that section and feel comfortable participating in the other areas of the forum. It?s great to have that choice.



Thank you Les.

Phillip
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline Acebird

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Re: Forum Activity
« Reply #32 on: October 02, 2022, 09:02:06 am »
The moderators job isn't to arbitrate every conversation and decide who is right and who is wrong,
When the moderator assumes they are right they are doing just that.  You can see it happen.  The pack chimes in on the assumption and there you have it.
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Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Forum Activity
« Reply #33 on: October 02, 2022, 09:16:46 am »
Ace,
That is not moderating, it is communicating. When we moderate we delete and send notices of the infraction and possibly more to stop the infraction.
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Online Kathyp

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Re: Forum Activity
« Reply #34 on: October 02, 2022, 11:45:11 am »
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I have looked in this section a few times but generally escaped quickly as I found myself experiencing the full range of emotions when reading comments made in some of those topics. I now don?t enter that section and feel comfortable participating in the other areas of the forum. It?s great to have that choice.

That's fair and understandable.  I don't mean this in any negative way, but a lot of people from other countries are hesitant to debate because within their experience exist things like "hate speech" laws.  I completely get that.  My sister lives in England and her husband gets kind of nervous over the debates my sister and I have.

In the US we do not have such laws and I think that is a good thing.  On this site we have moderators to keep people from going off the rails. 

I will say this to anyone who reads anything on here that they don't understand or that has made them uncomfortable, let us know.  Some of it may well be something I have written and if you PM me with a concern I will do my best to clean up my mess  :wink: 
Someone really ought to tell them that the world of Ayn Rand?s novel was not meant to be aspirational.

Offline Acebird

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Re: Forum Activity
« Reply #35 on: October 02, 2022, 02:30:55 pm »
Ace,
That is not moderating, it is communicating.
Yes but there is psychology involved.
Only trying to make suggestions as to why activity might be low or membership may not be all inclusive.
Brian Cardinal
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Online Ben Framed

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Re: Forum Activity
« Reply #36 on: October 02, 2022, 03:04:03 pm »
We thank you for your input Brian.

Phillip
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline Acebird

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Re: Forum Activity
« Reply #37 on: October 03, 2022, 09:00:40 am »
yw
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Offline Bill Murray

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Re: Forum Activity
« Reply #38 on: October 03, 2022, 10:09:30 am »
So, I dont normally do much computer surfing, but I just punched in 3 simple things. " MY Bees have Diarrhea", "how to feed bees sugar water" and "Varroa".  First page, Beemaster was not to be found. So in todays world the first few places at the top of the list get the traffic. I looked at some you-tube vids, but found it like reading the tons of books, like when I first started keeping bees, just not as enjoyable. A lot of info that has to be sorted through to figure whats true, relevant to your area, and your management style.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Forum Activity
« Reply #39 on: October 04, 2022, 02:01:05 am »
So, I dont normally do much computer surfing, but I just punched in 3 simple things. " MY Bees have Diarrhea", "how to feed bees sugar water" and "Varroa".  First page, Beemaster was not to be found. So in todays world the first few places at the top of the list get the traffic. I looked at some you-tube vids, but found it like reading the tons of books, like when I first started keeping bees, just not as enjoyable. A lot of info that has to be sorted through to figure whats true, relevant to your area, and your management style.

Thank you Bill

And thank you all. Each and every reply, opinion, and input is 'so' very much appreciated! 

Phillip
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.