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Author Topic: Nematodes for SHB  (Read 1000 times)

Offline yes2matt

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Nematodes for SHB
« on: July 01, 2022, 09:08:45 pm »
Nematodes arrived today, FedEx express. Of course the cold pack was ... same temperature as everything else. I got my rake and the hose loaded in the car, I'll mix them into five gallons and apply them tomorrow morning early.

My complaint with swiffer sheets is that I never install them correctly  and my friend catches a ton, but I catch very few. And I'm tired of messing with it.

My complaint with the proper traps is either that they don't catch any, or they catch a bunch and fill up in a week. And I don't visit bees every week.

My hope is that I can treat the soil around the hives, the nematodes will persist thru the autumn and provide a constant pressure against SHB population growth. Then I will apply again next April or so, and if the nematodes didn't overwinter it will be a new start and if they did it will be a boost. So hopefully over a couple years I can build/encourage a soil biome that is hostile to SHB larvae. And only costs me one visit a year, instead of a few a month.

I'll let ya know how it goes. ;)

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Offline The15thMember

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Re: Nematodes for SHB
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2022, 09:18:55 pm »
Nematodes are people too.   
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline FloridaGardener

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Re: Nematodes for SHB
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2022, 12:01:57 am »
What I love about Sponge Bob is that is describes so much of real life...

I bought nematodes this year from Southeastern Insectaries.  Applied last week, will post update later on SHB reduction.

I do think some hives learn to use the swiffer sheet better than others.  I'll take a used one with a dead beetle still in the cloth and put it into a nuc.  They get the gist and keep using it.  The nurse bees have to attend a queen cup class, a towel fuzzing class, and a class on herding SHB into the West Beetle trap.

Offline Oldbeavo

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Re: Nematodes for SHB
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2022, 08:16:39 am »
Biological control is a fluctuating system.
The nematodes require a host to live and so they will grow in population while there is  a host eg. SHB
But as the SHB population subsides so will the nematode population decline.
So you will get a fly in of SHB and they will grow the population of beetles and the nematode population will also increase as the SHB produce larvae.
So for biological control to happen there will always be a lag as the predator population grows big enough to eliminate the pest,
Can you survive the lag time?

Offline paus

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Re: Nematodes for SHB
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2022, 01:02:21 pm »
May I reiterate about the DSBB and oil pan.  I had not felt like servicing the oil pan, for several months, and I had lots of SHB a couple of weeks ago.  I saw lots of SHB in the semi dry oil pan so I poured used cooking oil, from a fish fry, in the pan, without cleaning so that I killed all of the SHB.  I checked a few hives most were double deeps, the first of this week.  The only SHB I saw were in the oil.  This works, but if I worked as many hives as I have, in my younger days, I am sure this would be more trouble than it is worth.  BUT, I believe that one hive with oil pan in 5 to 10 hives would work almost as well, especially if some pollen pads or slime out bait were placed in the oil pan.  I can service my oil pans from the rear of the hive with no smoke or hood.  No bees can get in the oil pan unless a coon opens the door to the oil pan compartment, yes this has happened, with lots of bees in the oil. To service the oil pan I use a 5 gallon bucket and a strainer to strain out any SHB and debris, then the oil is recycled.  If the hive is level only 1/2 inch of oil is necessary.  I like to use water with a wetting agent added either Dawn or calgon or the active ingredient in Calgon. I buy in 5 pound sacks or larger.  I also use this in the RV toilet,  The active ingredient is Sodium hexa meta phosphate, available in small quantiles in the internet, or better from a chemical supply.  With SHMP added to water any insect sinks as there is very little surface tension,  this also kills mosquito larva, and is safe for human consumption as it is found in many blended syrups and sauces.  The reason I don't use water is that it evaporates very quickly in our Texas 100+ days, especially if SHMP is used, oh yes it is used in steam boilers and water distillation units as well as commercial Reverse Osmosis units.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2022, 02:29:46 pm by paus »

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Nematodes for SHB
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2022, 01:29:29 pm »
Great Post Paus... 

Thank you!

Phillip
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV

Offline FloridaGardener

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Re: Nematodes for SHB
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2022, 12:34:17 am »
Paus, what about the SMELL of it? The bees are so sensitive to smell. Won't they abscond or be crabby when it's stinky?
I'd be concerned they'd abscond.  I clean out the trays often because I can smell rancid oil, and I'm not living above it just passing by.

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Re: Nematodes for SHB
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2022, 06:17:28 am »
FG,
I used oil in my trays for a couple of years. After 30 days the trays did smell. I was concerned about it and cleaned them every month. They usually smelled pretty bad. I don?t think they ever absconded because of the smell. Maybe if I didn?t clean them they may have.
Keep in mind that bees living in a tree have the same problem. The bottom of the nest builds up with a lot of trash and rotting wood including dead bugs that the bees kill in the hive. It may bee normal for bees to deal with.
Jim Altmiller

Offline Bob Wilson

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Re: Nematodes for SHB
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2022, 11:31:15 pm »
It seems to me that by the time the oil smells bad, there is usually so much wax and trash debri fallen into the oil and floating on top that the SHBs can just walk across it and back up into the hive.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2022, 08:22:42 am by Bob Wilson »

Offline yes2matt

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Re: Nematodes for SHB
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2022, 12:27:52 pm »
Biological control is a fluctuating system.
The nematodes require a host to live and so they will grow in population while there is  a host eg. SHB
But as the SHB population subsides so will the nematode population decline.
So you will get a fly in of SHB and they will grow the population of beetles and the nematode population will also increase as the SHB produce larvae.
So for biological control to happen there will always be a lag as the predator population grows big enough to eliminate the pest,
Can you survive the lag time?
Right, I've thought of this, and I don't know how to model it accurately. It's easier (ha!) to just try it.   

But the question of: what happens when the nematodes are super effective and take all the larvae out, then there are no more SHB and so the nematodes starve (?), then there is a new wave of SHB and a severely diminished nematode population?  I don't know how to model the possibility of nematode persistence over winter/season change, what the wavelength of the cycle would be, or where to time a new injection of purchased nematodes.  I'm guessing (!) an annual cycle. But it might be a spring/fall semiannual injection would be better. So I am currently intending to add more again in April (beginning of nectar flow here).

The other factor, is beekeeper convenience. What works for me? I'm learning this as I go too.
" The flu was rampant and we wore flu masks. " -- Jay Smith, _Better Queens_

Offline yes2matt

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Re: Nematodes for SHB
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2022, 12:34:54 pm »
I do think some hives learn to use the swiffer sheet better than others.  I'll take a used one with a dead beetle still in the cloth and put it into a nuc.  They get the gist and keep using it.  The nurse bees have to attend a queen cup class, a towel fuzzing class, and a class on herding SHB into the West Beetle trap.

This is really insightful. I've thought about this in relation to mite management behaviors etc, and why I didn't think of it regarding swiffers?   My friend's bees know how to use the swiffer, and the older bees teach the younger bees, and so they have a culture of herding SHB to the swiffer sheet.  I just need to keep giving them a sheet (used with trapped beetles probably helps!) until they get it figured out, then they'll have it.  As long as I keep giving them a sheet. :)

My bees build these little igloos and dormitories on the bottom board and sometimes even on the bottom rail of frames, they herd the SHB into the jail. OF COURSE that's a learned behavior passed on from generation to generation, as would be the swiffer sheet. 

I've got two other yards I'm going to give swiffers an extended try in those.  Thanks!
" The flu was rampant and we wore flu masks. " -- Jay Smith, _Better Queens_

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Nematodes for SHB
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2022, 12:43:50 pm »
If we watch bees dealing with SHB we will see the bees chase the SHB until the beetles  find a "hiding place", a place of refuge, Beetle Barns, Swiffer Sheets, etc are places where beetles being chased wind up. If there is no such place of 'refuge' for the beetles they will be cornered and jailed, (held in place), by the bees themselves in strong hives, until the number of SHB become overwhelming; Nature...

Phillip
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Nematodes for SHB
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2022, 06:57:54 am »
When I used the swiffer pads I caught more bees than SHB.  I even caught (and killed) several queens...  I was not impressed.
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Offline FloridaGardener

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Re: Nematodes for SHB
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2022, 10:36:15 am »
Actually I use Dixie H700 disposable kitchen towels, not Swiffer.  I just say (write) "Swiffer" because that's what people know. 

I'm going to also try blue shop towels split in half.  It may be enough fuzz to stop SHB but not trap bees by their corbiculae.

Offline Acebird

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Re: Nematodes for SHB
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2022, 08:44:22 am »
Humans have never been successful at using biological warfare on what they consider pest.
My suggestion is to give the colony a new house and disinfect the old one for reuse.  Moving the apiary would be another suggestion.
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Re: Nematodes for SHB
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2022, 09:26:40 am »
Ace,
Jacksonville used to have bad problems with mole crickets that eat our lawns. Your whole yard would die. They brought in nematodes that infested the mole crickets and I never had a problem with mole crickets again.
Jim Altmiller

Offline paus

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Re: Nematodes for SHB
« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2022, 11:24:41 am »
I have left the hives for several months because of health problems and the oil pan was rank to say the least.  I scraped the pan out and refilled and that did the job.   I have "robbed" tree hives and in the bottom of the hollow tree the water was soured and very stinky, I don't think the hive will abscond because of something like stinky stuff where they don't need to go or can't go.                      I just put some sugar water in a trap that I had not looked at since June 30. and yesterday went to get it and there was a swarm in the box.  Is this swarm savable this time of year as I have never caught a swarm this late so, no experience at all.  I have honey in the freezer so I may give them a few frames, advice is welcome.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Nematodes for SHB
« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2022, 04:42:18 pm »
Paus it would help if you place a two gallon frame feeder, a couple frames of brood with nurse bees and some frames of foundation. This will get them off to a great start...  Be careful not to move a queen from the donor hive with the brood and nurse bees.

PS I hope you health has improved fully and restored!

Phillip




« Last Edit: July 08, 2022, 08:30:03 pm by Ben Framed »
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV

Offline yes2matt

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Re: Nematodes for SHB
« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2022, 04:05:04 pm »
Humans have never been successful at using biological warfare on what they consider pest.
My suggestion is to give the colony a new house and disinfect the old one for reuse.  Moving the apiary would be another suggestion.
All of my locations have SHB infestation. And my friends' locations.

Only hives I ever saw that didn't have SHB running around was in a place where the dude used Roundup to keep the weeds down under his hive stands.

I'll try the nematodes first. ;)

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Offline William Bagwell

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Re: Nematodes for SHB
« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2022, 07:07:03 am »
Only hives I ever saw that didn't have SHB running around was in a place where the dude used Roundup to keep the weeds down under his hive stands.
How large of a bare dirt area around the hives does it take?

No, not going to use Roundup! Rubber 'friction' mats used in shipping are great for keeping grass and weeds off the bottom strand of electric fences. Think I now have enough to spare some for other uses.