Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum

BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => DOWN UNDER BEEKEEPING => Topic started by: crispy on September 09, 2020, 10:19:15 pm

Title: transfer done
Post by: crispy on September 09, 2020, 10:19:15 pm
Hi all did the hive transfer this morning no real problems apart from my smoker fuel going out a few times ,i need some advice from the learned ones here .When i was looking for the queen i did not find her not really suprising being the first time i have even touched bees anyway whilst inspecting the frames i found some good honey stores a fair ammount of capped brood but could not spot any eggs or larvea same again new and first time however i did find these now i probably shouldnt have done what i did when i think back on it but its done now ,i beleive they were queen cells i cut out 5 one i definatley know was a queen by the size of the bee inside i did leave 2 alone whether the hive will be ok i am not sure now i suppose it was a case of junior bee keeper panic that they were going to swarm anyway as i say it is done now so what will be will be i did take a photo of one frame with cells on it to give an idea
Title: Re: transfer done
Post by: Biggles on September 09, 2020, 11:38:02 pm
Hi Crispy.

My approach would be to leave the hive sealed up for the next ten or so days, whilst giving them some 1:1 sugar.

Unless you have a positive sighting of a loose queen, the queen cells are all you might have.  If there is a queen, newly mated, it may take a week for her to start laying.

Sit tight.  Keep the feed up to promote cell construction and let them sort themselves out.

Title: Re: transfer done
Post by: crispy on September 10, 2020, 02:44:33 am
Hi mate i have to change the sugar syrip on sunday so i wont have another look till then bees are very active at the moment so i ill just let them be ill check agian for a queen on sunday or signs of activity
Title: Re: transfer done
Post by: Bee North on September 10, 2020, 07:14:02 am

When did you purchase this nuc and bring it home?

The nuc was more than likely queenless when you purchased it!

I would contact the supplier and inform him of your situation and the fact that you have capped queen cells and no eggs...which are more than likely emergency cells from look of them.

Perhaps he can give you a queen. If so then destroy the cells and introduce the new queen.

Otherwise as Mark said...feed if you dont have a flow and leave them to raise a queen.

I wouldnt disturb the brood for at least 2 weeks.

I'm happy you left 2 cells there!

Title: Re: transfer done
Post by: crispy on September 10, 2020, 08:34:25 am
Hi bee north the nuc was purchased last saturday anyway i spoke to the supplier and he has said they take responsibilty  and he will supply a new nuc for me which is really good ,i did ask nim haw long the nuc would last without a queen and he said till the end of the month or thereabouts ,i did ask him if he had any queens but he is expecting his around the end of october so thats out , the nuc came with a months warranty apart from absconding and swarms clearly stated in the conditions of buying so i cant complain he is a reputable honey seller and bee seller he has checked the hive for signs of laying and queen activity so fingers crossed ill get a good one at least i got some practice in handling the bees ect .   
Title: Re: transfer done
Post by: Bee North on September 10, 2020, 04:26:11 pm
Great Crispy.
Title: Re: transfer done
Post by: Acebird on September 11, 2020, 08:03:44 am
Good supplier for sure.  The queen could have got damaged in transit or transfer.  Is the supplier going to let you keep what you have?
Title: Re: transfer done
Post by: crispy on September 11, 2020, 09:02:56 pm
Hi acebird he has asked that i return the nuc doesnt expect to get all the bees but i will do my best to get them into the nuc ,which leads me into my next question ,now tat the bees have been living in the hive for around a week will i have to do anything to the frames or box before adding the new nuc ie cleaning removing my new/old frames  ? or can i just wack the new bees in there i wont be able to get all the bees so should i leave the hive where it is and the straglers/foregers can go back in there or remove it from the yard all together   
Title: Re: transfer done
Post by: BeeMaster2 on September 12, 2020, 08:27:25 am
Just move the frames back into the nuc. I would do this when you are ready to leave to pick up the replacement Nuc. Leave the hive where it is and when you return, just add a he frames to it. While you are gone the field bees will realize they are queenless and bee reads for a new queen. They will move in to help support the new Nuc.
Jim Altmiller
Title: transfer done
Post by: TheHoneyPump on September 12, 2020, 12:32:59 pm
As a nuc seller, I see a few options that can work for both of you.
But first I will note that it is not uncommon for nucs to startup emergency queen cells after the transfers into different spaces. The moves disrupt the pheromones of the colony and their first response can be to start cells. After a week in the new hive boxes, they stop doing so. Presence of cells after a nuc transfer does not mean there is no queen. Also, the queen may not start laying in her new home right away.  She may take 1-3 days to get comfy and startup. Knowing elapsed time is important to determine if you are in this flux period or if there is indeed a problem.  The condition you have could just be a sign of the disruptions.  On new nucs I advise to destroy all cells in the first 2 weeks after transfer.  Look closely though, especially if 5 days later there are still no eggs and queen cells appearing definitely means no queen.

Ok the swap options.
One is screen in the hive at night and bring the supplier the whole hive. Ask them to do the swap for you. As a novice, this helps prevent problems later if a virgin queen appears running around in there and wipes out your new queen.  The nuc supplier should be experienced enough eliminate that possibility when he/she does the swap for you. This also gives the supplier some assurance as he/she will know exactly the condition and stability of the replacement colony when your return to pick it up.  This is by far the best for you and for the supplier at this point. 
If you have to re-nuc them for the exchange. Do this in the early morning at twilight, lighting just before sunrise. Take the nuc box over to the hive. Light up your smoker and give the hive a few puffs.  Not much.  Just a few drifts of smoke. Gently and quietly open the hive covers. Note which frames the bees are most clustered on. Transfer those frames, bees and all, into the nuc.  Lift two frames at a time if you can, trying not to separate the frames to avoid breaking cluster as little as possible.  Do not shake any bees.  Just transfer clustered frames.  Close up the hive and close in the nuc box.  Whatever bees are left in the hive are yours for the inconvenience.   Take the nuc straight to the supplier, or put it in a cool dark place until it is time to go.  Store the nuc no more than 2 days.
Third option, if the supplier is close and schedules are flexible, perhaps he/she would bring the new nuc over and do the swap there for you.

Call, communicate, coordinate.  It will work out smoothly. 

Hope that helps!
Title: Re: transfer done
Post by: crispy on September 12, 2020, 09:12:08 pm
Hi all i have spoken to the supplier and have arranged to go to his property on saturday next week so ill try to do the swap on saturday morning from my hive back to the nuc ,he has told me that he has checked the new nuc and that there is signs of a laying queen , i did fit a entrance excluder( very basic one peice of ply with a series of screw holes to adjust the height from closed to fully open ) to my hive before transfer so i can lock the hive down at night before the transfer to keep them inside. I have to change the sugar syryp today as its been 3 days since i added it so while i am there i will have a peek at the frames , looking back on it now i wish i hadnt panicked and cut out those 3 queen cells but as a novice i suppose these things happen lesson learnt .
The sellers property is around 11/2 hours drive across the city i was supposed to go there this saturday but pinched my ciatic nerve in my leg on friday so that put an end to that thankfully he was understanding and wasnt to fazed about it "bees arnt going anywhere" thanks for all your good advice ill try to do the best i can .