Making creamed honey

[Aroc]

A little disappointed in our first attempt.  Has anyone used starter seed?  We used a creamed honey off the shelf.  It?s a bit gritty.  Problem is we don?t have a whole lot of choices here.

We fortunately only did a couple of jars so no real waste.

Just wanted to find out how the seed starter worked and how much a 1lbs package does.

[SouthAussieBeekeeper]

Can't you just create your own seed? It boggles my mind how beekeepers would buy another beekeeper's creamed honey to make their own creamed honey.

[robirot]

Since my main honey is made from canola, i make nearly all into creamed honey. With canola no problem, if it starts to crystalize stir it 1 to two times a day for 30 s, but for the summer honey, i add about 1 pound of canola to 90 pounds (else it will crystalize somewhere in the next 1-6 next months). Stir once a day, until you see it really gets going (mostly 2 days), then stir 2 times a day (most times for 3 days) and you are good to go.

[Aroc]

Can't you just create your own seed? It boggles my mind how beekeepers would buy another beekeeper's creamed honey to make their own creamed honey.

Since this is new to us we decided this year to use a starter.  Once we understand what we are doing then we will try creating our own

[blackforest beekeeper]

Since my main honey is made from canola, i make nearly all into creamed honey. With canola no problem, if it starts to crystalize stir it 1 to two times a day for 30 s, but for the summer honey, i add about 1 pound of canola to 90 pounds (else it will crystalize somewhere in the next 1-6 next months). Stir once a day, until you see it really gets going (mostly 2 days), then stir 2 times a day (most times for 3 days) and you are good to go.

That`s the way I do it, too.
Also depends on the stirring tool. Should fit the purpose.
What is canola? We got rape-seed in spring. Candies fast. This year I  started it, too, because all the buckets would otherwise start at different times.... Next year I will be able to make larger homogenious patches.

[blackforest beekeeper]

Can't you just create your own seed? It boggles my mind how beekeepers would buy another beekeeper's creamed honey to make their own creamed honey.

Since this is new to us we decided this year to use a starter.  Once we understand what we are doing then we will try creating our own

Just to get You started, I DO NOT recommend the use of stirrer, it can be replaced.
Do as robirot wrote. Use a stirring tool from the hardwares for plaster, cement, mortar. A fellow around here uses the normal mortar-stirring-tool (the part going into the mortar and spinning) for the honey, too. I find it disgusting and un-loyal to the customer. But till You got it going and if its just for Your breakfast-table...
Then get a stirring-tool for the same mchine made of stainless steel.

I got one that is supposed to be able to make creamy honey out of crystallized one directly in one go. First try was good, but my (really good!) drill was almost smoking at the end. Will get a mortar-stirrer for it, too.

There is of course special and bigger equipment to be had....

Do not use crystalline honey as a starter. It has to be all-smooth.

[sc-bee]

Did you heat your base honey (not seed honey)?

[robirot]

No, no need to.

[Hops Brewster]

Since my main honey is made from canola, i make nearly all into creamed honey. With canola no problem, if it starts to crystalize stir it 1 to two times a day for 30 s, but for the summer honey, i add about 1 pound of canola to 90 pounds (else it will crystalize somewhere in the next 1-6 next months). Stir once a day, until you see it really gets going (mostly 2 days), then stir 2 times a day (most times for 3 days) and you are good to go.

What is canola? We got rape-seed in spring. Candies fast.

Canola is a low-acid variety or rapeseed.

[blackforest beekeeper]

I would even say, keep it as cool as possible, as the candying is faster and You need to stir less often.
cooler rooms are better, no fridge is necessary.

[sc-bee]

No, no need to.

Depends on the possible grains in the honey you start with and what end product you want....he is complaining about the grit of the honey. No heat could work good with your honey and not his.  I doubt seriously it was the seed honey. He can taste the seed honey and determine grit of the seed. If seed was ok then it was the size of the sugar crystals in his honey. Dyce method would eliminate that... correct???

[sc-bee]

A little disappointed in our first attempt.  Has anyone used starter seed?  We used a creamed honey off the shelf.  It?s a bit gritty

Are you saying the seed was gritty?

[robirot]

Now longer Version, Roomtemperature in the cellar ist avout 15?C, quite perfect.
Over 20?C you get slow crystallization, which favors long and big crystals. Less then 10?C fast crystallisation, where you would need to stir at least 4 times a day and still won't get a gold result.

For stirring, there are lots oft different of different, and basically two different ways to make creamed honey.
The better way, which results in steady results is to make the creamed straight from the raw honey.
Srew all the tools cited above by blackforrest beekeper, don't be a cheap ass here (well in fact all the shortcuts won't save you anything and are more expensive). What you need is a stirring spiral, you can get it e.g. at betterbee. But the best is a spiral with a middle pole and made in one part (easier to clean, the ones fixed with screws) like this:
https://www.holtermann-shop.de/Honigernte/Cremig-ruehren/ApiNord---Ruehrspirale.html.

And don't resort to things like cement or paunt  stirrers, they are made for different materials. Cement stirrers are designed to go down into a mass of sand and usally have quite sharp edges. They will scrape plastic of your buckets. Paint stirrers are made for fluid medium.

So my process is: Take a bucket of creamed honey from last year, heat it overnight at 40?C, to get back into a workable consistency, put it next to the honey to be creamed. stirr a couple seconds and now pull the spiral out and stirr the honey to be creamed with it. Quite a lot of honey sticks to the spiral, thats whats going to be your seed and is directly well distributed.

Now stirr two times a day until it got a opaque color, then bottle.

If you can't bottle straight let it settle. To bottle it heat overnight at 40?C, stirr 60 s and you are ready to go.

[robirot]

If you got gritty honey (not just the Sees) all you can do, is to fully liquify your again. For that you will need a heatingspiral, the size of your bucket or heated strainer.

[robirot]

Just looked up the dyce method, well much work to achieve the same. I would rather use some bought creamed honey for the first batch, after that you have your own stock or take the crystallized honey, and push some of it through a #80 mesh sieve. Remeber all you need is about 1% distributed good. It's not rocket since, stay with the simple methods and you will achieve a good and consistent result.

For watercontent 16-18% make the best.

[blackforest beekeeper]

If you got gritty honey (not just the Sees) all you can do, is to fully liquify your again. For that you will need a heatingspiral, the size of your bucket or heated strainer.

or this one: will do without prior liquifying.

[blackforest beekeeper]

Now longer Version, Roomtemperature in the cellar ist avout 15?C, quite perfect.
Over 20?C you get slow crystallization, which favors long and big crystals. Less then 10?C fast crystallisation, where you would need to stir at least 4 times a day and still won't get a gold result.

For stirring, there are lots oft different of different, and basically two different ways to make creamed honey.
The better way, which results in steady results is to make the creamed straight from the raw honey.
Srew all the tools cited above by blackforrest beekeper, don't be a cheap ass here (well in fact all the shortcuts won't save you anything and are more expensive). What you need is a stirring spiral, you can get it e.g. at betterbee. But the best is a spiral with a middle pole and made in one part (easier to clean, the ones fixed with screws) like this:
https://www.holtermann-shop.de/Honigernte/Cremig-ruehren/ApiNord---Ruehrspirale.html.

And don't resort to things like cement or paunt  stirrers, they are made for different materials. Cement stirrers are designed to go down into a mass of sand and usally have quite sharp edges. They will scrape plastic of your buckets. Paint stirrers are made for fluid medium.

So my process is: Take a bucket of creamed honey from last year, heat it overnight at 40?C, to get back into a workable consistency, put it next to the honey to be creamed. stirr a couple seconds and now pull the spiral out and stirr the honey to be creamed with it. Quite a lot of honey sticks to the spiral, thats whats going to be your seed and is directly well distributed.

Now stirr two times a day until it got a opaque color, then bottle.

If you can't bottle straight let it settle. To bottle it heat overnight at 40?C, stirr 60 s and you are ready to go.

Thats the one I use, too. Just with a bigger machine behind it.
The mortar-thing was not used by me, but a collegue.
Of course, I never thought of the plastic being abrased!

40 C? Thats a bit rash. I go max. 30. Sometimes 35 is necessary for good "bottling" (we use wide-mouth-jars).

[GSF]

First and foremost - I ain't got a clue about making creamed honey - but it's in my near future.

At our state conference this weekend a class was taught on making creamed honey. The speaker mentioned that your creamed honey will crystalize according to the bigger crystals, either in the starter or your crystalized honey. He recommended liquefying your honey if it had crystals in it.

[Aroc]

A little disappointed in our first attempt.  Has anyone used starter seed?  We used a creamed honey off the shelf.  It?s a bit gritty

Are you saying the seed was gritty?

Yup,  trying to find out if that?s the major problem or not.  Can I get a smoother honey than what I start with.  Trying to find out if anyone has used the seed starter you can get from Dadant.

[splitrock]

I started with a one pound tub of sue bee raw whipped honey last fall. I?ve made several gallons from it so far and still have a half gallon of seed for the future.

[Aroc]

Did you heat your base honey (not seed honey)?

Nope.

[sc-bee]

Did you heat your base honey (not seed honey)?

Nope.

PM Sent

[Oldbeavo]

If you whip some honey until it goes white, can't be too cold as it will burn out your beater, and then put it aside to candy you will probably come out with a smooth candy. This is then the seed for future batches.
Take the honey you want to cream and heat it to 50C to remove rogue crystals, allow to cool and stir in 500g of seed to 5kg of prepared honey.
Decant into your preferred containers and allow to set, it does set best at about 14C. Retain some for future seed.
We make about 400kg of creamed honey each year with this method.

[Acebird]

Take the honey you want to cream and heat it to 50C to remove rogue crystals,

For those that like things raw as you state the honey already has seeds.  Just put it in the refrigerator for 2-3 months and it will crystallize completely and turn white.  Yes the crystals may be larger but so what?  They will not be any larger than granulated sugar that is in 90% of the sweet foods we eat.  Spread on warm toast or buns you will love it.
We are so use to processed foods that we don't know what is good.  I have yet to find a processed food that can beat the real deal.

[Oldbeavo]

Because we sell our creamed honey, it is expected to be smooth rather than just candied honey. We don't claim it to be raw and will tell a customer that wants raw honey to buy our whipped honey instead.
Whipped honey is almost a desert rather than a honey. The trapped air gives it a different flavour.

[blackforest beekeeper]

Take the honey you want to cream and heat it to 50C to remove rogue crystals,

For those that like things raw as you state the honey already has seeds.  Just put it in the refrigerator for 2-3 months and it will crystallize completely and turn white.  Yes the crystals may be larger but so what?  They will not be any larger than granulated sugar that is in 90% of the sweet foods we eat.  Spread on warm toast or buns you will love it.
We are so use to processed foods that we don't know what is good.  I have yet to find a processed food that can beat the real deal.

there is not need for the heating part, Ace! just stir and be well.
Creamed honey is so much better than the natural crystalization. at least for canola, that is.
otherwise I am with you!!!

[Acebird]

I have no experience with canola.

[robirot]

Y, Canola isn't very common in the US. Which i always wonder, regarding the taste oft many US sweets.
It is a honey, which dosn't have a very distinktiv flavour, it's sweet and smooth in taste. If you don't cream it propper, it becomes  really hard and tastes way sweeter (for most people way to sweet, and masking the flavour).

A good honey for everyday usw and fruit tea.

[blackforest beekeeper]

Y, Canola isn't very common in the US. Which i always wonder, regarding the taste oft many US sweets.
It is a honey, which dosn't have a very distinktiv flavour, it's sweet and smooth in taste. If you don't cream it propper, it becomes  really hard and tastes way sweeter (for most people way to sweet, and masking the flavour).

A good honey for everyday usw and fruit tea.

ok.
but when you started creaming once you wanna do it for basswood and other honeys, too. cause it`s so much smoother and nicer. And the aroma does come out better.

[Oldbeavo]

Canola does candy with smaller crystals, but is an extremely mild honey in flavour, I relate it to a sweet called "Barley sugar".
We do blend honeys to get a flavour that appeals to our customer. Also some honeys set better than others, canola does set rock hard, so some may be used but it needs to be blended very well to prevent hard bits in your creamed honey.